Joe Biden, the good, bad and ugly. Starting with the good.

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
My guess is most POTUS throughout history have had all kinds of stupid shit about them that if they were surrounded by cameras nonstop they would have had all kinds of scandals.

The only thing Clinton - Bush - Obama had was increasing amounts of access to being exposed. Cable really did change everything. Then the internet being able to just make shit up really broke a lot of shit.
 

HGCC

Well-Known Member
That's a good point, also the only ones I have a clear memory of, so likely why I see it starting there vs an older person shouting NIXON!!!

...and a super old dude pissed off about grover Cleveland somewhere.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
My guess is most POTUS throughout history have had all kinds of stupid shit about them that if they were surrounded by cameras nonstop they would have had all kinds of scandals.

The only thing Clinton - Bush - Obama had was increasing amounts of access to being exposed. Cable really did change everything. Then the internet being able to just make shit up really broke a lot of shit.
Technology changes societies and the pace is accelerating, transportation and communications technology foster the fastest change. The telegraph gave people an early version of the internet and was immediately used by not just business and finance, but by newspapers as well. When the railways came along it greatly increased the speed and efficiency of the mail, and transportation. Next came, telephones, electricity, aviation, cars and highways, along with radio, all changed America (the west in general) as it grew. The founders envisioned an agricultural society of independent farmers and not the one that evolved into industry and international commerce as it's economic core.

Every technological advance in communications technology has had it's impact, TV had one of the biggest political impacts and now the internet is supplanting and complimenting it. These communications technologies have unforeseen impacts and consequences as we have found out in the past and are finding out now. These days any fool with a computer and internet connection has a publishing house with multiple outlets. Anybody with a cellphone can start a YouTube channel or witness police abuse. We are seeing hate crimes from the point of view of minorities as they use their cellphones to document the abuses they receive. The psychological effect on the viewer is that of the hate being directed at them personally, cause they are staring at the camera while ranting, you automatically identify with the person being abused.

It's the technology of cellphones and video cameras that is doing the most to change policing in America and their treatment of African Americans and not much else. It's the powerful videos that put people in the streets and generate empathy among many white people, enough to make a difference when combined with minorities. The British Navy stopped hanging sailors from the yardarm when the photographs and illustrations started emerging and appearing in the newspapers.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
That's a good point, also the only ones I have a clear memory of, so likely why I see it starting there vs an older person shouting NIXON!!!

...and a super old dude pissed off about grover Cleveland somewhere.
Nixon was to the left of Biden FFS, that's how much Regan changed America and destroyed the new deal, Joe is looking to bring back that new deal that gave your grandparents and parents the good life. Black people were largely excluded though just like they were excluded from the post war GI bill that educated and benefitted veterans, the southern racist insisted on it, or no WW2 solder would have got shit after the war, fuck the veterans, if the black folks got some. It's the same for healthcare, they would rather die and do, than let that happen, it's the reason America is an outlier in healthcare and has such a shitty inefficient system. Half the country lives on less than 5% of the wealth and the 1% own most of it, technology and corruption concentrate wealth and you have both in spades. One way of redistributing wealth (necessary) is by social programs like healthcare. Economies are ecosystems and the plankton and little fish have to be healthy too.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Joe wants to have a tax treaty with the G20 countries and others to set minimum taxes and such, a great idea. We can't tax the rich enough in Canada because they would simply move to the states and pay less or none. If they want to pay less taxes then they will have to move to Russia or perhaps China.

The rich and corporations need to pay their fair share and many of them with brains and hearts agree. Wealth distribution is necessary and good, technology concentrated wealth, particularly communications technology. It's not just corrupt politicians and lobbyist, but the nature of the technology and economy that does it automatically.
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/08/the-guardian-view-on-taxing-the-tech-giants-time-to-pay-up

Biden proposes global reforms to end ‘profit shifting’ to tax havens
‘Seismic’ plan to get big tech and multinationals to pay their fair share could be in place by mid-2021

President Joe Biden has proposed sweeping global tax reforms that would limit the ability of multinational corporations to shift profits overseas, while taking steps to forge a landmark agreement on a worldwide minimum tax rate.

The proposals are designed to tackle the very low rates of tax paid by the digital giants Google, Facebook and Apple, and major brands like Nike and Starbucks, which have become adept at using complicated webs of companies to shift profits out of major markets like the UK, where most of their revenues are earned, and into low-tax jurisdictions like Ireland and the Caribbean. Economists estimate that the sums lost to exchequers around the world from profit-shifting have risen as high as $427bn (£311bn) annually.

The Biden plan, described as “seismic” in its potential impact, is seen as a dramatic shift, distancing the US from decades of prioritizing the tax sovereignty of nations. The world’s largest economy has long resisted calls for the global treaties that tax reformers argued were needed to ensure that powerful multinational companies pay their fair share of taxes.

Under the plan promoted by Washington, set out in a document sent to 135 countries negotiating tax reforms at the OECD on Wednesday, tech companies and large conglomerates would be forced to pay taxes to national governments based on the sales they generate in each country, irrespective of where they are based.

The Biden administration also threw its weight behind work to establish a global minimum tax rate, which would see some of the world’s biggest economies agree on a minimum rate of tax on company profits. The current rate of corporation tax in the US is 21%, compared with 19% in the UK and 12.5% in Ireland, one of the lowest among EU nations.

Countries could impose higher corporation tax rates, but not go below the agreed threshold. The agreement is designed to stop countries luring businesses by offering tax discounts.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Oh the choice is clear, always has been. It's the usual gripes people make about dems that make it hard to hop on board, but given the choice, yes it's obvious.

I look back to bill Clinton, the Lewinsky situation in particular, as when things really started to breakdown in politics. Nonsense sold, so the Republicans grabbed that shit and ran with it. The dubyah years were weird times, but the stupid levels grew in terms of what got latched onto. Freedom fries, calling everyone a terrorist and questioning patriotism if you questioned decisions, yadda yadda. Obama ran things pretty much the same as Bush, idk, he was way more centrist than I expected and I couldn't really back him on much. The stupid though...the stupid grew so so much during the Obama years. Ding the dude on expanding the patriot act, being real cozy with wall street, or keeping us in wars, not his choice of mustard or suit color. I do think since Obama was so in the middle it was hard for the right to object to anything of substance.
I wasn't around at the time but I've seen recordings from the McCarthy era. I don't see much difference from Republicans then and now. Nixon was a part of that, so the thread of authoritarian rule runs through that party. I just don't see that in the Democratic Party. Not even before WW2.

There is a real difference between the kinds of people who become hardcore supporters of either party. The majority switch back and forth depending on the times, their economic anxiety and propaganda.
 

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
Jimmy Carter was a nuclear engineer. It was he that went to 3 mile island to help plan a course of action.

The gas shortage he was blamed for was intentional: he broke the back of the oil cartel and won a major victory, but most Americans were too pissed about the inconvenience to care.

He left the nation with a budget surplus. A big one.

He crafted the SALTII treaty that would lead to the end of nuclear missile proliferation for decades to come.

It took Reagan less than 7 months to undo it all and start the U.S. on the road to debt that we would never recover from.

Only one president since Carter has left office with an overall budget surplus record: Bill Clinton.
 

injinji

Well-Known Member
Jimmy Carter was a nuclear engineer. It was he that went to 3 mile island to help plan a course of action.

The gas shortage he was blamed for was intentional: he broke the back of the oil cartel and won a major victory, but most Americans were too pissed about the inconvenience to care.

He left the nation with a budget surplus. A big one.

He crafted the SALTII treaty that would lead to the end of nuclear missile proliferation for decades to come.

It took Reagan less than 7 months to undo it all and start the U.S. on the road to debt that we would never recover from.

Only one president since Carter has left office with an overall budget surplus record: Bill Clinton.
The main thing Mamma always said about Aunt Ronnie was he made America feel good about going into debt.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Elections are about making choices, so, yes, that's what I do during the general election.

I vote for who I want in the primary and who I think is best in the general. It's never been for a Republican. Not because of group think but because since I turned 18 and started voting, Republicans support the opposite of what I want. This election was no different in that regard. Stakes were higher but my choice was pretty clear. Even when they passed that '90's era Democratic Party's "tough on crime bill", the Republican bill was so bad that I had no difficulty supporting Democrats. The alternative was a scorched earth.
Sanders is the only other person in the 2020 lineup that had the experience of Biden. Sanders lacked the true foreign ties (xi ping and the big guys) which we need.

i predict Biden will go down as near-Lincoln when all is said and done.

fate had him in all the right places at the right time- just when we needed it.

Lincoln was a big believer in fate, too.
 
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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Sanders is the only other person in that lineup that had the experience. Sanders lacked the true foreign ties (xi ping the big guys) which we need.

i predict Biden will go down as near-Lincoln when all is said and done.

fate had him in all the right places at the right time- just when we needed it.

Lincoln was a big believer in fate, too.
Bernie wouldn't have won against Trump, Joe came too close for comfort in his win. However Bernie seems quite happy with Joe in the chair, Bernie was more interested in policy than being president, the presidency for him was not about ego, but getting things done. Joe is running pretty left, as far as he can with an eye on 2022, if the republicans win power again it will be like the confederacy won the civil war. So yes, Joe has a Lincoln like task and greatness thrust upon the right man at the right time in the right place. Lincoln said, only America could destroy itself and it's just as true today as then, his first job was to defend and protect the union by keeping it together, freeing the slaves was of secondary importance. The republicans cannot be allowed to gain power in America again, they no longer need Trump to be a complete disaster for America and a real and present danger.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Bernie wouldn't have won against Trump, Joe came too close for comfort in his win. However Bernie seems quite happy with Joe in the chair, Bernie was more interested in policy than being president, the presidency for him was not about ego, but getting things done. Joe is running pretty left, as far as he can with an eye on 2022, if the republicans win power again it will be like the confederacy won the civil war. So yes, Joe has a Lincoln like task and greatness thrust upon the right man at the right time in the right place. Lincoln said, only America could destroy itself and it's just as true today as then, his first job was to defend and protect the union by keeping it together, freeing the slaves was of secondary importance. The republicans cannot be allowed to gain power in America again, they no longer need Trump to be a complete disaster for America and a real and present danger.
when America could primary Lincoln it chose Lincoln giving him a second term and the 1 1/2 year nod to Emancipation Proclamation..i believe most people come to their senses at a certain point. the south was horrified at what Booth and his fellow assassins did.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
I did not know that. When I become a rich and famous You Tube hiker I will have to keep that in mind.
well it's popular and everyone uses it. i had left money that someone sent me and was just going to leave it there for future but decided to read the instructions because: money and am glad i did.

never ASSume:wink:
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
when America could primary Lincoln it chose Lincoln giving him a second term and the 1 1/2 year nod to Emancipation Proclamation..i believe most people come to their senses at a certain point. the south was horrified at what Booth and his fellow assassins did.
They were lucky every confederate officer wasn't hung and the soldiers sent as free forced labor to build the railroads. Their states should have been combined into a fewer number after the civil war to a half dozen from 13. They can thank Lincoln for mercy and magnanimity, we can see his reward for it. The south should have been terrified after his assassination, they were lucky the north didn't turn on them in retribution, since they were outside the protection of constitution.
 

CCGNZ

Well-Known Member
Bernie wouldn't have won against Trump, Joe came too close for comfort in his win. However Bernie seems quite happy with Joe in the chair, Bernie was more interested in policy than being president, the presidency for him was not about ego, but getting things done. Joe is running pretty left, as far as he can with an eye on 2022, if the republicans win power again it will be like the confederacy won the civil war. So yes, Joe has a Lincoln like task and greatness thrust upon the right man at the right time in the right place. Lincoln said, only America could destroy itself and it's just as true today as then, his first job was to defend and protect the union by keeping it together, freeing the slaves was of secondary importance. The republicans cannot be allowed to gain power in America again, they no longer need Trump to be a complete disaster for America and a real and present danger.
How about Joe's rise from the ashes, an afterthought after a couple primaries, just about written off,UNTIL that one precious lightbulb moment when Dems realized he was the only Dem in pack that could actually WIN, at that precise moment the Dems realized disposing of DONALD was the ISSUE of 2020, lefter policies be damned. CHEETO had to go PLAIN AND SIMPLE and anybody to the left of Joe no matter how shiny and new and progressively thinking was going to give DONALD the socialist/communist tag to play during the election. The Dem party smartened up, put their priorities in order,and made the right call on who to run for President.ccguns
 

CCGNZ

Well-Known Member
They were lucky every confederate officer wasn't hung and the soldiers sent as free forced labor to build the railroads. Their states should have been combined into a fewer number after the civil war to a half dozen from 13. They can thank Lincoln for mercy and magnanimity, we can see his reward for it. The south should have been terrified after his assassination, they were lucky the north didn't turn on them in retribution, since they were outside the protection of constitution.
I think Lincoln was right to show mercy, can you even imagine the BS that would be coming from south of the Mason/Dixon line now had he really put the screws to them.ccguns
 
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