Layoffs coming...

HeartlandHank · Nov 11, 2012

ginwilly said:
Yeah, my bad, re-reading that I don't either completely. I phrased it poorly. Let me ask this instead. Do you believe it's a side-effect?

No, I do not believe it is a side effect.

I see much genuine concern for the middle class and the poor from many Democrats. Watching Bill Clinton speak at some of the events this election... you can see he is a man who genuinely cares and is not only taking up the fight, but is passionate about the fight. It's something that you see throughout the deomcratic party. But in Bill, it's just there. You can see it and it is genuine.

In the Republican party, I see people who are angry and lack empathy. Not exclusively, but damn near it. Republicans are actively passionate about issues that effect them in no way at all. Like the same sex marriage issue. There is something very telling about a group of people that are passionate about a topic that effects them in no way, but has an enormous effect on the people who the issue really involves.
My point is that it does not surprise me that he made that statement, and believes it. It's like Republicans brains are wired differently. I am beginning to think that someone would make that statement because they genuinely cannot relate to someone concerned for others and wanting to fight for what is right. Like, they can't believe it because it doesn't make sense to them. It must just be some bullshit to pull a scam on the population. It's sad, really.

HeartlandHank · Nov 11, 2012

But, you're right gin. There is abuse in the welfare system. And it is shitty.

ginwilly · Nov 11, 2012

Hank I feel the need to ask you not to put me in a box with those that say do away with welfare. I thought I was obvious, but it's a forum, sentiment doesn't come across in type very well, like sarcasm.

I'm just convinced that what we are doing is exacerbating the problem and should try something else. I also believe any real reform would take a generation before it became a success and it might be uncomfortable at times.

What's going on in Greece has been an amazing study in sociology. The riots and protests are the young people who are upset that their parents got a bunch of free shit and now, not only are they not going to get any free shit, they are going to have pay for the free shit their parents got and can't find a job because their parents ruined the economy borrowing money for the free shit they couldn't afford. I don't blame them one bit for being pissed. That would suck wouldn't it.

I'm not saying all Greek parents were greedy and selfish and screwed over the next generation. Some tried to ensure their children were taken care of after they are gone. But we all know those kids didn't do anything to deserve it so it's considered a windfall and taxed accordingly. It's only fair.

HeartlandHank · Nov 11, 2012

ginwilly said:
Not true at all as far as I'm concerned. I work in healthcare and worked direct patient care for 20 years. As a PT I was up in people's personal space for 1 hr, 3 x a week for sometimes months. I have a very up close and personal feel for all sorts of situations people are in doing home health. I do my best to help those in need. I'm not a rich person so my most valuable commodity to these people is my time and skills, not money.

It's you who I feel is disconnected when can't do people are compared to won't do people. For the vast majority of people on assistance the best solution is to teach self sufficiency, not just giving them what they need to make us feel better. Assuming these people can't take care of themselves is dickish and elitist really. It's the lazy path we have chosen. Take from this group, give to this group, with no plans or even thoughts on even diminishing let alone eliminating the need for it, which would truly be the best solution for everyone. And doing it in the name of "fairness" which is based on feeling, not logic is just the icing on the cake.

explain how i am comparing can't do people to won't do people. And how i am assuming that these people cannot take care of themselves?

hotrodharley · Nov 11, 2012

Red1966 said:
No, but quality control regulations on US made medical devices and the the threat of lawsuits do help ensure better products. If US makers can't compete with China's, then we will lose that protection.

How would you know this? Are you in the medical equipment business? We can compete on any level - until it comes to pay. Then the greedy jerks take it to China but want you to still support them. Your belief we do it mall better is blown out oof the water with our current meningitis crisis started by a company in NJ.

Red1966 · Nov 11, 2012

StevenSD420 said:
Lol, UnlceBuck had nothing to do with your reply to me; or are you just obsessed with him? Just admit that you were wrong, that you made a mistake. The world isn't going to end because of that, you are human after all.

And that undeveloped part, I hope you're not referring to the Amazon?

I believe you aren't, but sometimes you just have to make sure. I do know though, that in an effort to move of the population inward, Brazil did move it's capital from the coast to where it is today.

You giving a choice of two wrong answers may work on children, but won't work here. I did get a belated response from one of his other personas. I new it would. He's so easy. The Amazon is largely undeveloped, tho I think that was done on purpose. Still, there are millions (well, 100's of 1,000's) who live there in what we would call poverty. Rio isn't the capital anymore? News to me. But I don't really care, anyway. Brazil politics aren't a conversation topic here. Nothing against Brazil, you just don't see them mentioned in the news at all. So that probably speaks well of them. Since I know nothing of their social programs, I can't comment on them at all.

HeartlandHank · Nov 11, 2012

ginwilly said:
Hank I feel the need to ask you not to put me in a box with those that say do away with welfare. I thought I was obvious, but it's a forum, sentiment doesn't come across in type very well, like sarcasm.

I'm just convinced that what we are doing is exacerbating the problem and should try something else. I also believe any real reform would take a generation before it became a success and it might be uncomfortable at times.

What's going on in Greece has been an amazing study in sociology. The riots and protests are the young people who are upset that their parents got a bunch of free shit and now, not only are they not going to get any free shit, they are going to have pay for the free shit their parents got. I don't blame them one bit for being pissed. That would suck wouldn't it.

You jumped into the discussion around the time a poster said, essentially, he was not interested in helping people in poverty and did not feel his tax dollars should be spent on the cause. My mistake, i made some assumptions about what camp you were coming from. Posts were coming in quickly.

There was way more to the conversation than the welfare topic at the time.

I am seeing that you are not the republican i spoke of above.

HeartlandHank · Nov 11, 2012

Red1966 said:
Yes. I'm aware of that. The "temporary" part of it seems to have been forgotten. The funds for it come from families with children, too. Those people don't sit at home all day. They party more than you or I.They tend to be pretty poor about taking care of their children,too. Quit often, the mothers dump the children off on the grandparents and it is they who raise the children. I lived among them for years and saw the poorest excuses for motherhood you can imagine.

Wow.... You remember when they implemented drug tests to welfare recipients in FL... You know what percentage of Welfare recipients tested positive for drugs.... 2%.

Canna Sylvan · Nov 11, 2012

Red,
My deadbeat DEMOCRAT parents sent me to my REPUBLICAN grand parents when I was 6. Haven't talked to those deadbeats since. My parents can go fuck themselves along with all the other deadbeat democrats out there too.

ginwilly · Nov 11, 2012

HeartlandHank said:
explain how i am comparing can't do people to won't do people. And how i am assuming that these people cannot take care of themselves?

I may be guilty of putting you in a box after asking you not to put me in one. Apologies if I have.

What I see continually is a man developing carpal tunnel from turning screws for years and getting on disability. What he should be doing is transferring to a job that doesn't involve turning screws but the left has deemed he "needs" SSI because he can't do his old job. I see a man in a wheelchair and I hear the left say we must take from those people over there to help him. People like me wonder what's wrong with his mind and why can't he be a lawyer or engineer or secretary and think we should encourage that. I also think you should have consequences for poor choices. The left has deemed obesity and alcohol/drug abuse as disabilities. This does not help with obesity and drug addicts but sometimes the consequence to change these traits is losing your government bennies, that's pretty scary.

HeartlandHank · Nov 11, 2012

ginwilly said:
I may be guilty of putting you in a box after asking you not to put me in one. Apologies if I have.

What I see continually is a man developing carpal tunnel from turning screws for years and getting on disability. What he should be doing is transferring to job that doesn't involve turning screws but the left has deemed he "needs" SSI because he can't do his old job. I see a man in a wheelchair and I hear the left say we must take from those people over there to help him. People like me wonder what's wrong with his mind and why can't he be a lawyer or engineer or secretary and think we should encourage that. I also think you should have consequences for poor choices. The left has deemed obesity and alcohol/drug abuse as disabilities. This does not help with obesity and drug addicts but sometimes the incentive to change these traits is losing your government bennies, that's pretty scary.

Pulled this up.. speaking about carpal tunnel SSI qualifications.

In order to receive Social Security Disability benefits, you must show that you meet the criteria in one of Social Security's impairment listings (from the agency's "blue book"), that your symptoms are substantially "equal" to the criteria in one of the impairment listings, or that you are unable to work any job due to your limitations.

ginwilly · Nov 11, 2012

HeartlandHank said:
Wow.... You remember when they implemented drug tests to welfare recipients in FL... You know what percentage of Welfare recipients tested positive for drugs.... 2%.

LOL dude! You are on a pot forum, surely you know of a few ways to beat a piss test.

HeartlandHank · Nov 11, 2012

More full spectrum... Getting Disability Benefits for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome

In order to receive Social Security Disability benefits, you must show that you meet the criteria in one of Social Security's impairment listings (from the agency's "blue book"), that your symptoms are substantially "equal" to the criteria in one of the impairment listings, or that you are unable to work any job due to your limitations.
Unfortunately, Social Security claims examiners do not generally find that the symptoms of carpal tunnel syndrome rise to the level of disability. However, quite a few disability applicants have been successful in winning disability benefits on appeal by one of the following methods.
Meeting or Equaling an Impairment Listing

There is no impairment listing for carpal tunnel syndrome, but if there is nerve damage, your condition might be considered peripheral neuropathy. However, the requirements of the listing for peripheral neuropathy are very difficult to meet, particularly for someone with carpal tunnel syndrome.

HeartlandHank · Nov 11, 2012

Where did you see this guy that cannot turn a screwdriver so he quit his job, went home and started collecting checks.?

ginwilly · Nov 11, 2012

HeartlandHank said:
Pulled this up..

In order to receive Social Security Disability benefits, you must show that you meet the criteria in one of Social Security's impairment listings (from the agency's "blue book"), that your symptoms are substantially "equal" to the criteria in one of the impairment listings, or that you are unable to work any job due to your limitations.

sigh

I'm a physical therapist. I've been involved in 100s of disability claims. If you work a loading dock and tear up your ankle you will get disability if you hire a lawyer. I don't care how big your print is.

Disabled is a subjective term that must be judged by law which is interpreted subjectively, not by ability, which is also subjective. Most of us could qualify for SSI with the right lawyer and all of us could if we combine the right lawyer with the right judge.

HeartlandHank · Nov 11, 2012

ginwilly said:
sigh

I'm a physical therapist. I've been involved in 100s of disability claims. If you work a loading dock and tear up your ankle you will get disability if you hire a lawyer. I don't care how big your print is.

Disabled is a subjective term that must be judged by law which is interpreted subjectively, not by ability, which is also subjective. Most of us could qualify for SSI with the right lawyer and all of us could if we combine the right lawyer with the right judge.

The copied print was super small... i just changed the font to 5, not knowing what it would look like. The font size is not actually changed until posted.

Red1966 · Nov 11, 2012

HeartlandHank said:
No, I do not believe it is a side effect.

I see much genuine concern for the middle class and the poor from many Democrats. Watching Bill Clinton speak at some of the events this election... you can see he is a man who genuinely cares and is not only taking up the fight, but is passionate about the fight. It's something that you see throughout the deomcratic party. But in Bill, it's just there. You can see it and it is genuine.

In the Republican party, I see people who are angry and lack empathy. Not exclusively, but damn near it. Republicans are actively passionate about issues that effect them in no way at all. Like the same sex marriage issue. There is something very telling about a group of people that are passionate about a topic that effects them in no way, but has an enormous effect on the people who the issue really involves.
My point is that it does not surprise me that he made that statement, and believes it. It's like Republicans brains are wired differently. I am beginning to think that someone would make that statement because they genuinely cannot relate to someone concerned for others and wanting to fight for what is right. Like, they can't believe it because it doesn't make sense to them. It must just be some bullshit to pull a scam on the population. It's sad, really.

Really? I don't see Clinton as a man who cares. I see a clever politician. Bill Clinton, the man who forced himself on woman after woman and denied it for years, and only admitted to it to dodge additional perjury charges? You see anger in the Republicans? Perhaps. But who sad to vote for revenge? Who shouts "racist" at those who disagree with them? Who mocks and insults their opponents religion? Who claims to be for the poor and the children while piling insurmountable debt on them? I could go on, but I won't.
I think you see the Democrats as you want them to be, not as they are. You act like I know nothing of poverty. I've been poor. I've been refused jobs because of the color of my skin, because some politician wanted to buy votes by making "set asides". I did get one job, as a 16 year old, because my family qualified as living below the poverty level. At $1.60 a fucking hour. I made more money picking up sod, $0.60 a pallet stacked over my head. But I was the wrong color to work in the post office. You sound much like Hilary Clinton when she said "I can't believe any woman would have a baby just so she could get on welfare". Another limousine liberal who has no inclination how the poor live. Frankly, your self righteous, smug, and condescending attitude really puts me off. You think you're better than me because you want to tax me to pay for your charity? I don't think so.

Red1966 · Nov 11, 2012

hotrodharley said:
How would you know this? Are you in the medical equipment business? We can compete on any level - until it comes to pay. Then the greedy jerks take it to China but want you to still support them. Your belief we do it mall better is blown out oof the water with our current meningitis crisis started by a company in NJ.

You don't have to be in the med equipment field to know this. Claiming so is just being dishonest. The "greedy jerks" don't have to take it to China, the Chinese are already making the stuff now. That one company doesn't represent all. And believe me, that company is history now. In China, the worst that would happen is they would change the name on the building.

HeartlandHank · Nov 11, 2012

Red1966 said:
Really? I don't see Clinton as a man who cares. I see a clever politician. Bill Clinton, the man who forced himself on woman after woman and denied it for years, and only admitted to it to dodge additional perjury charges? You see anger in the Republicans? Perhaps. But who sad to vote for revenge? Who shouts "racist" at those who disagree with them? Who mocks and insults their opponents religion? Who claims to be for the poor and the children while piling insurmountable debt on them? I could go on, but I won't.
I think you see the Democrats as you want them to be, not as they are. You act like I know nothing of poverty. I've been poor. I've been refused jobs because of the color of my skin, because some politician wanted to buy votes by making "set asides". I did get one job, as a 16 year old, because my family qualified as living below the poverty level. At $1.60 a fucking hour. I made more money picking up sod, $0.60 a pallet stacked over my head. But I was the wrong color to work in the post office. You sound much like Hilary Clinton when she said "I can't believe any woman would have a baby just so she could get on welfare". Another limousine liberal who has no inclination how the poor live. Frankly, your self righteous, smug, and condescending attitude really puts me off. You think you're better than me because you want to tax me to pay for your charity? I don't think so.

Oh my. I'm not even going to respond to you anymore Red.

Red1966 · Nov 11, 2012

HeartlandHank said:
You jumped into the discussion around the time a poster said, essentially, he was not interested in helping people in poverty and did not feel his tax dollars should be spent on the cause. My mistake, i made some assumptions about what camp you were coming from. Posts were coming in quickly.

There was way more to the conversation than the welfare topic at the time.

I am seeing that you are not the republican i spoke of above.

If you're referring to me, you're misconstruing my statements.

Layoffs coming...

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member