Leaves losing green with green residue rubbing off fabric bucket! Discoloration & burn! HALP (Pics)

Hey RIU,

Got a problem I could use help with.

Losing the lush green from my leaves. Started slow at first but I'm about to flip and am concerned this may be a problem going forward. Many light changes recently because my main fused. Things were in flux for almost 2 weeks (it was lit the entire time just not as well as my main) but everything is back to normal. Thankfully this all happened before flowering period.

1) PICTURE OF PLANT

Attached 9 pics.

Descriptions:

#1 - Strange green residue collected in bottom of my fabric bucket. Got a new jug and used more than usual water today (1/2 a gallon / 2.2L usually, 3/4 gallon or 3.5L today)(daily feedings)

#2 - Green residue rub off. Assuming this is from my leafs, but how and why? Could the extra water have dislodged it? I've always got run off but never green.

#3 - Close up of leaf, burned edge, discoloration
#4 - Discoloration on fan leaves
#5 - edge of fan leaves
#6 - Nitrogen burn? Calcium? This is common in some fan leaves
#7 - Consistently burned color in lots of fan leaves
#8 - Bad burn on my top cola fan leaf. This is the worst of it.
#9 - I can see the burn incoming...


2) Growing indoor or outdoors

Indoors.

3) Watering schedule

Every day. In Coco coir. Got a new jug today and used more than usual water today (1/2 a gallon / 2.2L usually, 3/4 gallon or 3.5L today) same strength nutes,

4) Growing Medium

Coco coir. Only nutes and waters, nothing extra.

5) What stage of growth

About to flip. 7 weeks old. Vegged extra long because of light issue documented above.

Anybody?

The green on the cloth pots could be algae which would probably be caused by the light with the constant wet pots from watering every day. You get it on things that stay wet like rockwool cubes. I have not seen it on cloth pots because they usually get chance to dry out. Maybe water less often.

You could have a magnesium deficiency going on, a pic of the whole plant is needed.
I suspect more could be going on too, possible root damage. Hard to say on that.
The top pic could be a sign of poor roots. Some leaves look very papery and very dark.

These are my best guesses without knowing more,
Full plant pic needed.
What light
What PH
What nutrients and how strong
What temps night and day.
RH.

Anything else you think relevant.

Thanks so much for the reply!

I plan to flip this weekend, so your help is invaluable!

coreywebster said:

The green on the cloth pots could be algae which would probably be caused by the light with the constant wet pots from watering every day. You get it on things that stay wet like rockwool cubes. I have not seen it on cloth pots because they usually get chance to dry out. Maybe water less often.

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Interesting. I've never read nor heard of that. If it's a case of not getting a chance to dry - wouldn't I see the green algae rub off around the entire fabric? I water it with run off every day.

You could have a magnesium deficiency going on, a pic of the whole plant is needed.
I suspect more could be going on too, possible root damage. Hard to say on that.
The top pic could be a sign of poor roots. Some leaves look very papery and very dark.

Click to expand...

Yes, the fan leaves are especially papery.

Sure I've included full plant pics below. Let me know if any other specific pics could help you diagnose.

These are my best guesses without knowing more,
Full plant pic needed.
What light

Click to expand...

T5 ho 8 bulb

What PH

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Always above 5.9. Usually 6.0x - 6.1x. I'm really starting to suspect nute burn from daily feedings.

I gave it around 5.7 ph by accident once and saw immediate discoloration but this was a while ago.

What nutrients and how strong

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Medi One, Dr. Hornby's recommended. Started with small 2.5mL/2.2L feedings. Progressed slowly to about 7.5mL/2.2L feedings. I've now upgraded my water jug to 3.5xL (~75% of a gallon) and I use about 6mL m1 now. I've backed off nutes because I suspect nute burn.



The bottle's running out, so I'll have to replace it soon. Any suggestions and or extra amendments?

What temps night and day.

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I haven't been recording temps. Light burn / heat stress is a real possibility. However I have zero leaf curl up, the typical heat stress sign. Plus they're fluro's...

RH.

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No. Water around my parts is great ppm wise. (very low)

Anything else you think relevant.

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Could it be nitrogen lockout? I've read lack of nitrogen goes from bottom to top, which is indicative of my discoloration patterns. Heat stress is usually top to bottom and besides discoloration, the signs for heat stress are few and far between.

I mentioned my main t5 fused and took me a few weeks to fix. In the interim, I had LEDs going. I feel like they burned my plants. They were there for no more than a week and I experienced no leaf curl or other signs of heat stress.

Can't think of anything else tbh... Lights fell onto the stem and created a bend in the stem... this happened about a week ago. I've noticed no physical changes however and normal growth has proceeded that incident. I've included a pic of the stem taped & tied too. All the discoloration / burning happened before hand.

LMK if I can provide any other info / pics.

Thanks again for your reply!

Get that pot up and off the container. Your going to have roots growing out the bottom. I have a CoCo/ fabric 5 gal. grow going now. It only needs/ gets water, when it needs it. Maybe every 3/4 days.

Thanks for the reply Jypsy! Holy shit that chart is great! thanks for posting!

A nitrogen, iron (molybdenum?)or boron deficiency looks like a promising lead

Jypsy Dog said:

Get that pot up and off the container. Your going to have roots growing out the bottom.

Click to expand...

I have it sitting on porous shelving to make watering easy. Nothing is blocking it. Roots can grow all the way to and out the bottom, no problems.

I have a CoCo/ fabric 5 gal. grow going now. It only needs/ gets water, when it needs it. Maybe every 3/4 days. View attachment 3941187

Click to expand...

How do you determine when it needs watering? Do you wait until the pot is lighter? Top soil dry?

I've read everywhere that if you water every 3-4 days, you'll get soil like results. People reiterate that you can't over-water in coco, so take advantage of daily feedings for monster plants.

Thanks again for the reply

that is algae growing on your pots. its probably growing inside and competing with your roots as well. i don't like to advertise, but i've been having good luck using hydroguard.
i'd water with 15 ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide a couple of times, then start using something like hydroguard, to keep it from coming back.
get that cleared up then you should be able to deal with anything else thats going on

Roger A. Shrubber said:

that is algae growing on your pots. its probably growing inside and competing with your roots as well. i don't like to advertise, but i've been having good luck using hydroguard.
i'd water with 15 ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide a couple of times, then start using something like hydroguard, to keep it from coming back.
get that cleared up then you should be able to deal with anything else thats going on

Click to expand...

Thanks! HP w/o nutes, yes? I'm planning on flipping soon. So I'll flush with HP, I guess. That should eliminate any ph imbalances, or nitrogen lock-outs too, I hope.

Is hydroguard the only way to deal with the algae?

Any chance a stronger concentration of HP alone can save it?

Any diagnosis on discoloration / burns?

Thanks again for the reply

i had problems with my cloning for a long time, there's pythium in the local water supply, so the H2O2 would knock it down but it would keep coming back.
so i would use the hydrogen peroxide for 2 to 3 waterings to knock it down, then start using the hydroguard, which is a beneficial organism that just out competes the pythium, so it starves. i use 3 gallons of water in my bubble cloner, and use 6 ml of hg when i change water, then add 2 ml every other day. since i started using it, no root rot, and went from about a 25-30% success rate to a 65-70% success rate. still room for improvement, but i don't feel like i have to take a dozen clones to get 2 or 3 anymore, now i feel safe taking 4 and just keeping the first one or two to root
there are several product of the same kind, hydroguard is just the one i'm familiar with, i'm sure any of the major named ones would work fine.

the damage looks like it could be a light sunburn from the lights you were using, maybe compounded by the poor root conditions, keep an eye on it, if you don't see any new damage and new growth looks good, i wouldn't worry about it

Von Brawn said:

Thanks for the reply Jypsy! Holy shit that chart is great! thanks for posting!

A nitrogen, iron (molybdenum?)or boron deficiency looks like a promising lead



I have it sitting on porous shelving to make watering easy. Nothing is blocking it. Roots can grow all the way to and out the bottom, no problems.



How do you determine when it needs watering? Do you wait until the pot is lighter? Top soil dry?

I've read everywhere that if you water every 3-4 days, you'll get soil like results. People reiterate that you can't over-water in coco, so take advantage of daily feedings for monster plants.

Thanks again for the reply

Click to expand...

I have mine on a milk crate so the bottom can dry. That's the whole point of Air Pruning. Your issue IS NOT Iron def. Look at some pics. The new growth is LIME GREEN with Iron. I water by weight. . When I have Grow issues, I ALWAYS start with my pH. pH dictates EVERYTHING in Hydro. Start there and work backwards. Flush with water pHed at 7.0 and check the firsrt amounts of water to run off. 5.8 is GOLDEN.

I just went back and read your other post... If your feeding EVERYDAY. STOP! Flush the piss out of her and regroup. Give her a day or 2 to recover, then resume feeding at 1/2 dose for a couple feedings. I go water-water-feed. NO BURNING! Hold off on flipping if you can. She needs to be in PRIME shape to go to Flower. The start of Flower is a stress point in the grow. GOOD LUCK!!

Roger A. Shrubber said:

i had problems with my cloning for a long time, there's pythium in the local water supply, so the H2O2 would knock it down but it would keep coming back.
so i would use the hydrogen peroxide for 2 to 3 waterings to knock it down, then start using the hydroguard, which is a beneficial organism that just out competes the pythium, so it starves. i use 3 gallons of water in my bubble cloner, and use 6 ml of hg when i change water, then add 2 ml every other day. since i started using it, no root rot, and went from about a 25-30% success rate to a 65-70% success rate. still room for improvement, but i don't feel like i have to take a dozen clones to get 2 or 3 anymore, now i feel safe taking 4 and just keeping the first one or two to root
there are several product of the same kind, hydroguard is just the one i'm familiar with, i'm sure any of the major named ones would work fine.

Click to expand...

Interesting. I'll definitely going to use hydrogen peroxide. How much hydrogen peroxide per gallon/L? Can you mix it with nutes during regular feeds?

I'll have to research hydroguard. Know any other root promoting supplements? I was planning on using molasses / sugar for flower but everywhere I read says not to use either with coco coir. Any other way to fatten up my flower / take care of roots?

Roger A. Shrubber said:

the damage looks like it could be a light sunburn from the lights you were using, maybe compounded by the poor root conditions, keep an eye on it, if you don't see any new damage and new growth looks good, i wouldn't worry about it

Click to expand...

Lol I hope you're right.

The answers I'm getting vary from "it looks good, don't worry and continue" to "you have algae root rot". Thanks again for your help

Jypsy Dog said:

I have mine on a milk crate so the bottom can dry. That's the whole point of Air Pruning. Your issue IS NOT Iron def. Look at some pics. The new growth is LIME GREEN with Iron. I water by weight. . When I have Grow issues, I ALWAYS start with my pH. pH dictates EVERYTHING in Hydro. Start there and work backwards. Flush with water pHed at 7.0 and check the firsrt amounts of water to run off. 5.8 is GOLDEN. View attachment 3941273

Click to expand...

Should I be keeping my feedings ph at 5.8? I always feed it more. Usually 6.05+. Fuck I've even gone past 6.1 with some consistency... Looking at the chart you posted, this could be a calcium /mag / potassium lockout. Holy fuck thank you for posting that chart!

To clarify are you saying I should stick to 5.8ph consistently and aim for the run off to also be 5.8ph? Is 5.8 the standard throughout flowering as well?

So to flush I'll hit it with 7ph, no feed, triple water amount... then record the ph after every draining. Thanks, I'll even post it here.

Could it be a lack of nitrogen?

If nitrogen's out... I'm suspecting heat stress / nutrient burn.

Jypsy Dog said:

I just went back and read your other post... If your feeding EVERYDAY. STOP! Flush the piss out of her and regroup. Give her a day or 2 to recover, then resume feeding at 1/2 dose for a couple feedings. I go water-water-feed. NO BURNING! Hold off on flipping if you can. She needs to be in PRIME shape to go to Flower. The start of Flower is a stress point in the grow. GOOD LUCK!!

Click to expand...

Just so I understand you,

You recommending flush this weekend, (triple the water?), with 7.0 ph, with no feed? Then letting her rest Sunday... then resuming half the dose come Mon? Can I include hydrogen peroxide along with the flush? To fight the potential algae + help roots

Do you think I can flip a couple days into the week?
What signs of recovery / vitality should I look for after flushing / before flipping?

I planned on flipping this weekend. She's 7 weeks in and getting huge. IDK how I'm going to handle the flower if she gets any bigger.

Thanks again for your help!

Pots on the ground, number 1 issue and will cure 98% of your grow if you just change that one thing.

I kept my soft pots on plastic coffee cans. That's how I watered them too (that's runoff). They never sat in wet. More air should prevent further algae once it's gone. I also kept a fan blowing under my pots. I hate soft pots for coco.

I water my coco plants daily. 4gal buckets watered with nutes to about a liter to half gallon runoff. No issues other than screwing around with nute levels on purpose..

Signs of recovery will be healthy new growth with no new yuckies that weren't already present.

Thanks for the reply creature!

Creature1969 said:

Pots on the ground, number 1 issue and will cure 98% of your grow if you just change that one thing.

Click to expand...

She's sitting on a porous shelf. The entire bottom is constantly being aired out. Not on the ground at all. Over 7" clearance.

I also kept a fan blowing under my pots. I hate soft pots for coco.

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That's interesting. I'll flush and put on a fan, thanks!

I water my coco plants daily. 4gal buckets watered with nutes to about a liter to half gallon runoff. No issues other than screwing around with nute levels on purpose..

Click to expand...

5.8 ph throughout veg & flower? Do you want the run off to be 5.8 as well?

Signs of recovery will be healthy new growth with no new yuckies that weren't already present.

Click to expand...

Thankfully I seem to be getting that already. I'll be on the lookout now!

I'm going to flush tomorrow with 7.0 ph with lots of water. Any idea if I can mix in hydrogen peroxide (and at what amount) into the flushed water? I want to get rid of any algae right away!

Thanks again

Von Brawn said:

Interesting. I'll definitely going to use hydrogen peroxide. How much hydrogen peroxide per gallon/L? Can you mix it with nutes during regular feeds?

I'll have to research hydroguard. Know any other root promoting supplements? I was planning on using molasses / sugar for flower but everywhere I read says not to use either with coco coir. Any other way to fatten up my flower / take care of roots?



Lol I hope you're right.

The answers I'm getting vary from "it looks good, don't worry and continue" to "you have algae root rot". Thanks again for your help



Should I be keeping my feedings ph at 5.8? I always feed it more. Usually 6.05+. Fuck I've even gone past 6.1 with some consistency... Looking at the chart you posted, this could be a calcium /mag / potassium lockout. Holy fuck thank you for posting that chart!

To clarify are you saying I should stick to 5.8ph consistently and aim for the run off to also be 5.8ph? Is 5.8 the standard throughout flowering as well?

So to flush I'll hit it with 7ph, no feed, triple water amount... then record the ph after every draining. Thanks, I'll even post it here.

Could it be a lack of nitrogen?

If nitrogen's out... I'm suspecting heat stress / nutrient burn.



Just so I understand you,

You recommending flush this weekend, (triple the water?), with 7.0 ph, with no feed? Then letting her rest Sunday... then resuming half the dose come Mon? Can I include hydrogen peroxide along with the flush? To fight the potential algae + help roots

Do you think I can flip a couple days into the week?
What signs of recovery / vitality should I look for after flushing / before flipping?

I planned on flipping this weekend. She's 7 weeks in and getting huge. IDK how I'm going to handle the flower if she gets any bigger.

Thanks again for your help!

Click to expand...

The 7.0 is to check what your Coco is holding.. If you just want to say fuk it and reset. Flush hard with 5.8. Peroxide on the final rinse wont hurt. Yes to half dose to star back. Don't worry right now about whats locked up/ out. Just hit the "Reset" with the flush. See how she reacts. Hydroguard is a MUST in Hydro Grows... The only thing you have to remember... Peroxide kills off the beneficial bacteria. But if your start running HG you should never need the peroxide. Some go with a half dose of nutes with the last bucket of flush... That won't hurt either. Stop loving her to hard and treat her like the WEED she is. Too much food makes her sick. Bet she bounces back good. Some more reading to fuk with your head. http://www.growweedeasy.com/nutrient-burn-cannabis

Von Brawn said:

Thanks for the reply creature!

5.8 ph throughout veg & flower? Do you want the run off to be 5.8 as well?

Click to expand...

Uhmm.. I use canna coco nutes and after mixing the PH comes out to around 6. I stopped checking after about 10 days and check once a week or so using drops.

When I check runoff (I've only checked abput 3 times using drops) it's usually very close to what goes in. I water so much/often, it better. lol

I'm using nutes formulated for coco though, so listen to these guys about hydroguard n stuff.

I have a nice PH pen but don't use it. I'm also not going by or checking PPM's and I have a very nice PPM meter. This is only my 2nd grow with coco. Last grow I used organic nutes w/coco and it was interesting to say the least. lol

Auto amnesia taken a little over a week ago @ ~36 days old.

Creature1969 said:

Uhmm.. I use canna coco nutes and after mixing the PH comes out to around 6. I stopped checking after about 10 days and check once a week or so using drops.

When I check runoff (I've only checked abput 3 times using drops) it's usually very close to what goes in. I water so much/often, it better. lol

I'm using nutes formulated for coco though, so listen to these guys about hydroguard n stuff.

I have a nice PH pen but don't use it. I'm also not going by or checking PPM's and I have a very nice PPM meter. This is only my 2nd grow with coco. Last grow I used organic nutes w/coco and it was interesting to say the least. lol

Click to expand...

WTF, you don't check pH when feeding? And have amazing results?

That's fucking crazy. How do you get away with it?

Auto amnesia taken a little over a week ago @ ~36 days old.
View attachment 3941345

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Damn that's incredible for only 36 days! What type of lights? Any harvest pics?

Jypsy Dog said:

The 7.0 is to check what your Coco is holding..

Click to expand...

Ahh and correlate the ph with the chart? See what could be the problem? Seems to make sense

5.8 ph for veg & flower, right?

Q: I'd expect the runoff pH to be identical to the ph I've been feeding her consistently, that may have made it calcium / mag / whatever deficient. Does buying that cal mag stuff and running that have any chance of helping the plants recover?

If you just want to say fuk it and reset. Flush hard with 5.8. Peroxide on the final rinse wont hurt. Yes to half dose to star back. Don't worry right now about whats locked up/ out. Just hit the "Reset" with the flush. See how she reacts.

Click to expand...

Flush seems to be the answer. I'll record the run-off from a gallon at 7.0,

then the last rinse will be 5.8 ph + peroxide + half dose nutes. Thanks!

BTW, is a 5.8 consistent for veg + bloom in hydro?

Hydroguard is a MUST in Hydro Grows... The only thing you have to remember... Peroxide kills off the beneficial bacteria. But if your start running HG you should never need the peroxide.

Click to expand...

A beneficial bacteria that overpopulates and kills off all the bad bacteria. I'll have to pick it up some Hydroguard! Can you recommend anything else for coco? I was looking for a sugar / molasses / carb supplement, since I've read coco coir can't handle either sugar nor molasses.

Some go with a half dose of nutes with the last bucket of flush... That won't hurt either. Stop loving her to hard and treat her like the WEED she is. Too much food makes her sick. Bet she bounces back good. Some more reading to fuk with your head. http://www.growweedeasy.com/nutrient-burn-cannabis

Click to expand...

Haha I was really getting greedy, trying to make a monster for my first scrog

Further reading is the best preventative medicine! Thanks for taking the time

I just got lucky with the Canna nutes and my water (after it sat for 24 hours). They're with 3 other plants under 6 cobs totaling 330w. These lights are awesome compared to my 400w HPS. Crazy growth rate.

Von Brawn said:

WTF, you don't check pH when feeding? And have amazing results?

That's fucking crazy. How do you get away with it?



Damn that's incredible for only 36 days! What type of lights? Any harvest pics?



Ahh and correlate the ph with the chart? See what could be the problem? Seems to make sense

5.8 ph for veg & flower, right?

Q: I'd expect the runoff pH to be identical to the ph I've been feeding her consistently, that may have made it calcium / mag / whatever deficient. Does buying that cal mag stuff and running that have any chance of helping the plants recover?



Flush seems to be the answer. I'll record the run-off from a gallon at 7.0,

then the last rinse will be 5.8 ph + peroxide + half dose nutes. Thanks!

BTW, is a 5.8 consistent for veg + bloom in hydro?



A beneficial bacteria that overpopulates and kills off all the bad bacteria. I'll have to pick it up some Hydroguard! Can you recommend anything else for coco? I was looking for a sugar / molasses / carb supplement, since I've read coco coir can't handle either sugar nor molasses.



Haha I was really getting greedy, trying to make a monster for my first scrog

Further reading is the best preventative medicine! Thanks for taking the time

Click to expand...

Cal/Mag Hydroguard are MUSTS. I like to run Silica also. Do some homework on the upside of using Silica. 5.8 is golden... but letting it run up to 6.2 and she can "Eat" some of the other nutes at a higher rate. pH drift is a GOOD THING. The guy that's NOT ph checking is LUCKY. But when an issue pops up, it ALL comes back to pH. Stay on top of pH and your grow goes much smoother. Update after the FLUSH!!!