Led help please!!!

Discussion in 'LED and other Lighting' started by Gardening Enthusiast, Jul 16, 2013.

    Gardening Enthusiast

    Gardening Enthusiast New Member

    Howdy everyone,
    This post is directed toward those of you using LED'S as your only source of light (particularly Kessil's). I am a fairly seasoned outdoor gardener of fruits, flowers, and vegetables, but the only plants I have ever grown indoors before are windowsill flowers such as orchids, African Violets, Christmas Cactus, Amarylis's etc.... etc.... Therefore you can deduce I do not know jack about the specifics of growing indoors under lights. This is also my first ever cannabis grow. I want to do it right, learn from my mistakes, and prevent as many mistakes as possible through continued learning. Right now I have a 50/50 mix of Happy Frog and Ocean Forest Medium with Roots Organics: Foundation, Grow, and Oregonism dry nutes mixed in. I have 5 bag seed plants( yes I know that is an atrocity and a no-no but I did it because this is a trial run) in a 32 gal brute trash can ( I drilled a lot of wholes in it and added pea-gravel to the soil for drainage). I currently only have one Kessil H150 Purple and one Kessil H350 Deep Purple ( I refuse to use any other form of light! So please do not give me the he said/she said go-around on what else I should use or why. As an electrician if there is one thing I understand, it is the efficiency and return on investment of lights, HVAC etc...) I also use Roots Organics liquid nutes and am currently following their feeding schedule, though I dose it light to play it safe, as I have never used liquid nutes before. My plants are 6wks (from seed) old now. What I really need to know is, and this is why I am asking veteran LED users, how far should I be placing these lights from my plants for optimum effect, How tall can I allow my plants to grow under these kind of lights, How much room between each plant should there be, What is the yeild/potency difference between many small plants vs only several large plants, Are plants better off being in one large container either wide but shallow or narrow but deep, or is it best for them all to be in individual containers of sufficient size( if so what size container is ample adequate for what size mature plant?) I will be building a grow enclosure soon, it will be 6-8ft tall, and 5ft by 5ft floor area, not that I need that much space yet but I like can't help myself from going into overkill mode when I custom build stuff. Also I intend to purchase more LED's as I can afford them. I am open to using other brands if anyone has legit experience with other brands. I would be very interested to hear about/see everyone's LED set up and what they have learned. I realize this is an uber long post and question overload, so I do not expect anyone person to answer all these question, but I do GREATLY APPRECIATE any and all help! THANK YOU MEMBERS! FYI, I know I am yet another annoying newb jerkface who is laughable, but I willing admit that, and am here to learn, so please keep the jarring to a respectful minimum.

    JasonM007 New Member

    Your best choice are www.[B]apachetechinc[/B].com, https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/630619-apache-tech-led-grow-8x12.html
    These are real manufacturer in USA , the others are rebranded Chinese cheap led lights . You can save some money buying from Chinese manufacturers,but to sell you their products , they will helpful to you .But after several and one year around, your light with problem , they ask you ship the products to China , then after repair , ship back to you .Terrible is that the light failed again . What you did is just repeat what you did .

    tags420 Well-Known Member

    ^^^Don't for get Area 51...with about 20 different grows on this site alone

    It's hard to answer everything you ask at once but I'll take a swing at it.

    So do you have all 5 in the one container(32gal)?...so basically you have a 32"ish circle grow space actually? Or are you planning on using a normal style in the 5x5 space. If you have them all in the one then you're kinda stuck till next time.

    But those kessils are only good for about 1'x1' maybe 1.5'x1.5' at best. And even in that area is a weak light.
    This test show a kessil and a few others. Non are near the best lights to finish filling you grow space with.
    View attachment 2739446
    you can see how narrow the light covers. And pretty low intensity for marijuana.

    It all depends on what you are trying to achieve. Are you trying to max out your space, a certain number of plants. Or is just a little stash enough for you.

    If you are 6 weeks from seed already then those kessils are probably struggling a bit.

    Eraserhead Well-Known Member

    Thanks Tag, I appreciate that bongsmilie

    I'm gonna post some graphs this week, I just got a spectroradiometer, and will have some cool spectrum charts and PAR charts as well.

    I will have charts for a 400w HPS, 400w MH, various CFLs, a incandescent, 1x SGS, 2x SGS, and a 450w LED from Sun Valley, Ca.

    tags420 likes this.

    tags420 Well-Known Member

    ^^^that's sweet EH. A quality investment there. I may have a hook up with apache but I am honest about quality and results and you(A51) have both. I am going to do par chart like those for the new apache's if I can ever get a hand of them, plus some hps, indagro, and what not too. I was surprised at the hps peak intensities that I have seen in test/specs. Lower than I remember, but they do show why/how led is lacking(coverage). Hps holds the umol's all the to the edges way better. But some led's peak can be equal to even some 1000w hps.

    Sorry to thread jack a bit here enthusiast, but I think just reading some threads on here will give you what you are looking for. Had to tell yield for you...your setup seems interesting. Pics possibly?

    jcmjrt Active Member

    I grow with Kessils and they are good and well made lights. The first problem that I see is that you purchased the deep purples and not the magentas. Deep purple is made for veg and magenta for flower...and veg is waaay easy for LED. With just those lights, your grow is going to struggle mightily during flower.

    I'm not really sure why you would refuse to use any other light. Different spectrums and light sources often work well together. I've had great luck with my Kessils but I supplemented with white light and I expect coverage of about 1 x 1 if stationary. I like Kessils (magentas!) and with their spectral spinner cover an area up to 3 x 3. I first supplemented with fluorescent lighting and now am using white diy fixtures in my grow to do that. I've also just generally come to believe that although some dominant red/blue lighting is good, some white light to give the rest of the spectrum is good too. Plants do use more than just the dominant red/blue wavelength. I've also seen other people supplementing with small HID fixtures as well. I haven't done that one but use what you have or can get at a reasonable cost until you can afford better. You are going to need a fair amount of some warm light to supplement your current grow in order to finish those seedlings.

    I've kept my Kessils at about 8 - 10 inches up from the canopy.

    As far as organic soil grows - check out the organic section here and there's a good book as well that's an easy read and interesting read "True Living Organics" by The Rev. You can grow well in small containers or large. You just have to pick your methods and go from there. The Rev is aimed more at small container growing because he has a bad back and doesn't want to move heavy containers. Seems like a valid reason to me. I don't know what you like or your experiences so read up.
    Gardening Enthusiast

    Gardening Enthusiast New Member

    Thank you jcmjrt. It's a pleasure hearing from another Kessil user.
    I intend to buy Magenta's for the flowering stage.

    Do you just use Magentas for veg and flower? Are you using 150's or 350's?

    I am an Electrician and sustainable living nut, plus a penny pincher, so that is why I refuse to operate HID's. CFL's i am open to using though, since they too eat little electricity and last longer.

    Any CFL wattage and bulb type recommendation for me?

    jcmjrt Active Member

    I have 4 H350 magentas which I use for veg and flower and made a couple of small diy led fixtures to go on to the spinner to add a little light and some spectrum. I have small white fixture, a small royal blue fixture and a couple of small deep red fixtures. I have white and blue running during veg and then switch to white and deep red at flower time and then deep red 2 at late flower.

    The purples already have a lot of blue so no need to add blue at any point. I'd add some small warm white CFLs...maybe two per plant? See how the plants are doing as far as bud production and decide whether or not to add more. CFLs get kept as close to the plant as possible and surround them with light.

    Since you are an electrician, why not just make your own? Diy is pretty easy with these guys. Check out ledgroupbuy.com stevesleds.com for parts. You can build yourself a fixture with only top quality top bin LEDs, efficient drivers and plenty of cooling. Cree XTEs, XMLs and Philips ES Luxeon are hard to beat. Some things one diys because you can get something much cheaper but honestly, I think the best reason to diy LED fixtures is that you can get the best fixture. Once you decide on a grow space then you could build fixtures, to just fit your space. Coverage is very important with LEDs. LED light is much like T5HO in that you really only grow well what is almost directly under the fixture. The light just doesn't spread all that well. Most manufacturers tell real whoppers when it comes to telling you what the coverage area is. Think size of the fixture and add a foot in width and height and that's about the max good flower area...and it can be more like add 4 inches to each dimension. With top brand, top bin LEDs (given you also have good coverage), you could be getting great grows with 30 watts/ft2.

    Also if you are into sustainable living, you really do need to check out The Rev's book and the recycled living organic soil (ROLS) thread (growing style more suited to larger containers) in the organic section here. You won't need to buy bottled nutrients any more and the plants will love you too. :) Worm composting is something else that you need to look at. I maintain a small worm bin now and the castings are pure gold for growing. :) Have fun.

    619ster Member

    From what I gather, the lights I am currently using use similar tech to Kessil. I personally am a fan of Apache Tech from their transparency in tech, and performance from what I've seen. Others recommended so far have all also peaked my interest at some point. But just came to add my 2 cents in saying that t5 is hands down the better option over cfl's IMO. I started with cfl's initially, then got into LEDs. Changed veg space from cfl's to t5ho and haven't looked back! Temps are much better too (I noticed your emphasis on temps).

    JasonM007 New Member

    Apachetech 's products are great ones . But if the price can be down , then that will be Great .

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