LED vs H.I.D

Where did you get information that the navy grew tomatoes in submarines with HIDs in 77-78?

I cant find any documentation of it. What i can find is information from the mid 2010s that the Navy started growing hydroponics under LEDs.



This is the second time you've shared this, how exactly do you plan on hitting 99:1 UVA:B at 1.81w/m squared? Id love to hear how you're going to achieve the exact ratio so I can apply it myself.
It was advertised for sale in High Times, in the 70s. I bought one. Been growing weed since 1972.

I also spent 8 years locked up, with the Feds, 5 years Supervised Release, and a 3-5 MILLION $$$$ Fine, which was waived, for Cultivation of 1200+ Marijuana plants. All Clones, plus I had 30 Mother Plants 5 feet tall.

I gave my partner 550 clones, 25 of the Mothers. He also financed the operation. He was 70, I was 39. He was a friends uncle. He had a 2000 acre cattle farm down near New Haven, - Think Cornbread Mafia Territory, though he was about 35-40 miles from them, he was in the general vicinity., but he had no affiliation, and I was the one who showed him how to tell M/F.

He got popped, with 500+ clones, and the 25 mothers. Ratted me out, and they came and found 750 more, and 5 mothers, that were 5 feet t all, in 5 gallon containers. I ended up pleading guilty to Mandatory Minimum 10-Life-3-5 Million $$ Fine, which was waived.
He got off scott free, and I ended up getting charged with Manufacturing All of the plants, as they came from me. He didint do 1 day, in jail. I did 8 years locked up.

I also had an 8 1000w Halide light grow room in the basement, with 160 clones, in rows. I built a box out of Pallets, 12 in tall x 10 ft boards, for the sides, and lined it with heavy plastic. Used a Sphagnum Moss base with perlite, vermiculite, dolomite-calcitic lime, and peruvian seabird guanos, Kelp, Greensand, worm castings, compost.
For watering I had 2 50 gallon garbage cans, and a sump pump, and garden hose, attached to a BROOM!!!.
Funny thing is Cops/FBI- said it was SOPHISTICATED!!!! When it was the most primitive, simple hands on set up one could do!!!! A sump pump, and garden hose attached to a broom handle, was Sophisticated???!!!!

Upstairs I had 2 x 1000w Halides flowering several plants. I was also making clones with a kiddie pool, cool white fluorescent, and small dentist cups, and watered from the bottom. I just poured water into the pool, with bubblers. I covered the pool with plastic, for humidity. Lights under the plastic.
I also used Guttering, capped off both ends, added bubblers, and floated clones with styrofoam. I had multiple 10 foot rows of them.
All in all I spent from 1997-2009, under the thumb, of the Feds. Didnt smoke at all, for 12 years.

I also got thoughts about weed potency ect, and considering I went 12 years without even one little hit, no alcohol or buzz at all, as I dont drink anyway, since 1978, I think I have a pretty good grasp, on buzz then-90s, and before vs 2009 on.

And to beat it all, the first stuff I smoked was some Pre2000 AK47 a buddy has a clone of. Seeds were bought in 1998, but not popped until 2004, and he kept a mother. He also has pre2000 Sensi NL5, 2006 Willie Nelson.

But the AK47 sent me through the roof. I had just got off of all supervised release, and was totally free, after 12 years, and went to my buddies, to get weed to sell-of course, and he had AK47, and it was the 1st thing I smoked. As I smoked it, CNN was on, and it just happened they were showing a guy that got busted, and was being processed into the LA Jail. They were talking about how many people it held ect, showed the guy getting processed, and it brought back the whole getting busted thing, and made me really really paraniod. I think they said at that time LA Jail, held 12-15,000 inmates!!!!! I spent 1 year sleeping on the floor, in a 10 man cell, with 32 other inmates, and I was the only one that didnt smoke cigarettes. It was torture. Some were also going through Oxy withdrawl. Oblivious they were even in jail. One guy was trying to get out through a 4 x 6 vent!!! Thats INCHES.
 
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Oh and btw, science lies, surprise !
Lab tests put led buds at the top in cbd thc etc
But people smoke it and they dont like it or buy it haha
So, i much rather listen to the people who smoke weed more then some obscured scientists in some lab pumping results that fit the narrative or the highest bidder
Like @HazeIsMids said, smoking is the only test that counts, and led bud fail that test each time, thats not me, thats people smoking it all over
Its funny, the best of the best led bud here sell for 3500$ a pound, while my non keepers not even close to a plant i will keep, sell for almost 5000$ hahaha
So take your lab test and bogus science and keep it and keep following it, your doing all of us hid growers a favour really
Go argue with those facts bud, good luck
 
Huh ?
The data says no led can come close to HID spectrum wise
So it spread light better, and make more light from each watt but like we said before, that light is no match in spectrum to HIDs, never will be.
Data says you are wrong,
but feel free to provide you source?

Im not your teacher or father bud, grow up, you are clearly not interested enough in facts or truth, if you were, you would have researched this subject on your own, you didnt, just shows you lack wisdom and knowledge on the subject.


Lol x 2
Leds spectrum is no where near hids, sorry mate, you have no idea what you are talking about, unfortunately.
Higher lumen output, yes, in lame spectrum.
Again, you can get wider spectrum range with LEDs, if you'd want that.
Talk about having no idea of what you are talking about,
while talking about lumens which is a spectrum which consists visible light for humans.

NO friend, calling someone what he is, is facts, not lack of ammo.
And again, if you researched the facts, you would have known they are far from being superior, hell, even CFL are better.
LEDs emitt dangerous radiation that kills living tissues in all living things.
No matter what advantages this tech holds, this downside is enough for it to be thrown in the trash.
I'd be eager to see the DATA for LEDs killing living tissues in all living things.
Just how dumb can you get?
 
Data says you are wrong,
but feel free to provide you source?


Again, you can get wider spectrum range with LEDs, if you'd want that.
Talk about having no idea of what you are talking about,
while talking about lumens which is a spectrum which consists visible light for humans.


I'd be eager to see the DATA for LEDs killing living tissues in all living things.
Just how dumb can you get?
Lol research man, you have no idea just means you are not so wise in light tech, go research and come back to play with the big boys, you are not in the same league as us sorry
 
Data says you are wrong,
but feel free to provide you source?


Again, you can get wider spectrum range with LEDs, if you'd want that.
Talk about having no idea of what you are talking about,
while talking about lumens which is a spectrum which consists visible light for humans.
No, you can never get to the blue and far red like hids, means, leds are lacking spectrum that hids have, 0 points for you already
I'd be eager to see the DATA for LEDs killing living tissues in all living things.
Just how dumb can you get?
Go research, i wont do your job for you, what i post here is for knowledge purposes, i dont owe you squat.
 
Lol research man, you have no idea just means you are not so wise in light tech, go research and come back to play with the big boys, you are not in the same league as us sorry

Ah yes, the deadly LED menace — silently wiping out all life, one lightbulb at a time. It's amazing we're still alive, considering we're surrounded by them in homes, cars, screens, and even fridges.

Reality check: LEDs emit visible light. That’s kind of their whole purpose. Unless you're licking a high-powered UV LED for fun, you're not getting any "tissue-killing radiation." They're literally used in hospitals for healing wounds and in plant lights to help things grow.

But sure, let’s panic about the murder bulbs while ignoring the sun — which actually does blast us with UV radiation every day.

Yeah, tell me more about how your desk lamp is an invisible death laser.
 
In the 1970s, the U.S. Navy experimented with growing vegetables on submarines to address the issue of limited fresh produce during long voyages.

Holman using LED and experimenting for the military says Tomatoes, and plants that like heat, struggle under LED. He says they will grow, and they tested 83 different plant species. But Leafy Plants, grew best under LED, while Tomatoes struggled.
We tested 83 different varieties of plants, including vegetables and fruits -- everything from strawberries to zucchini, beans and rhubarb -- a little bit of everything," Holman said. "About 51 of those 83 that we tried grew well in hydroponic conditions. The whole concept was to grow a salad for the submariners."

Leafy green vegetables did particularly well, but plants requiring more sun and heat, such as tomatoes, struggled.

"It does grow root vegetables pretty well, other than they come out a little bit smaller, shorter, because of the way that they grow," said Holman, referring to carrots and radishes.

Holman must issue a technical report by September for the Naval Undersea Warfare Center and the Navy Supply Systems Command that will help those organizations decide what, if any, fresh produce can be successfully grown at sea. Holman, who grew up on a Michigan farm and spent 30 years in the Navy, fully understands how fresh food can boost the morale of sailors on long deployments.
 
Scientific American

LEDs do have a dark side. A study published in late 2010 in the journal Environmental Science and Technology found that LEDs contain lead, arsenic and a dozen other potentially dangerous substances. LEDs are touted as the next generation of lighting,” says Oladele Ogunseitan, one of the researchers behind the study and chair of the University of California (UC)-Irvine’s Department of Population Health & Disease Prevention. “But as we try to find better products that do not deplete energy resources or contribute to global warming, we have to be vigilant [about] toxicity hazards….”

Ogunseitan and other UC-Irvine researchers tested several types of LEDs, including those used as Christmas lights, traffic lights, car headlights and brake lights. What did they find? Some of the worst offenders were low-intensity red LEDs, which were found to contain up to eight times the amount of lead, a known neurotoxin, allowed by California state law and which, according to researchers, “exhibit significant cancer and noncancer potentials due to the high content of arsenic and lead.” Meanwhile, white LEDs contain the least lead, but still harbor large amounts of nickel, another heavy metal that causes allergic reactions in as many as one in five of us upon exposure. And the copper found in some LEDs can pose an environmental threat if it accumulates in rivers and lakes where it can poison aquatic life.
Ogunseitan adds that while breaking open a single LED and breathing in its fumes wouldn’t likely cause cancer, our bodies hardly need more toxic substances floating around, as the combined effects could be a disease trigger. If any LEDs break at home, Ogunseitan recommends sweeping them up while wearing gloves and a mask, and disposing of the debris — and even the broom — as hazardous waste. Furthermore, crews dispatched to clean up car crashes or broken traffic lights (LEDs are used extensively for automotive and traffic lighting) should wear protective clothing and handle material as hazardous waste.
 
Huh ?
The data says no led can come close to HID spectrum wise
So it spread light better, and make more light from each watt but like we said before, that light is no match in spectrum to HIDs, never will be.

Im not your teacher or father bud, grow up, you are clearly not interested enough in facts or truth, if you were, you would have researched this subject on your own, you didnt, just shows you lack wisdom and knowledge on the subject.

Lol
Emotionally attached
Clearly you are bad at addressing facts, but good at addressing authors
Take a rain check buddy, go check the facts again, you are too confused.

Lol x 2
Leds spectrum is no where near hids, sorry mate, you have no idea what you are talking about, unfortunately.
Higher lumen output, yes, in lame spectrum.
Lower heat... Is that an advantage? Ked growers struggle to keep rh and temps in range, its known, they end up spending more on AC haha
Keep thinking your moving forward lol


NO friend, calling someone what he is, is facts, not lack of ammo.
And again, if you researched the facts, you would have known they are far from being superior, hell, even CFL are better.
LEDs emitt dangerous radiation that kills living tissues in all living things.
No matter what advantages this tech holds, this downside is enough for it to be thrown in the trash.

To me, personally, its perfect that so much people growing with leds, just makes my buds sell quicker and for a much better price as they compare them to the shit led bud they buy all the time and much prefer the ol trystee hids product.

So let me get this straight, you’ve made a bunch of bold claims, provided no evidence, and now you're just hoping no one presses you on it? That’s cute. But unfortunately for you, that’s not how facts work. If you're going to make sweeping statements, the burden of proof is on you, not the people asking for sources.

You say I lack knowledge and wisdom, funny, because it seems like you're the one struggling to tell facts from feelings and hearsay.

But you obviously don’t even know what “facts” or “truth” mean, you seem to have them completely confused with whatever your feelings happen to tell you that day.

There have been plenty of actual studies, real ones, with data, and unsurprisingly, none of them support what you’re saying. But I get it. Facts can be uncomfortable when you’re used to running on vibes.

And this part about LEDs emitting dangerous radiation that kills living beings? If that were even remotely true, we’d all be dead by now. Meanwhile, plants are thriving under LEDs, commercial agriculture depends on them, and humans are living longer and healthier lives than ever, all while being surrounded by LED lighting in nearly every aspect of daily life.

If you're struggling to manage costs while using a light source that puts out more usable light per watt with significantly less heat, the issue isn’t the LEDs, it’s a skill issue on your end. If LEDs were truly more expensive to run, commercial growers wouldn’t have adopted them across the board. But let me guess, you’ll pivot and say it’s because they don’t care about quality and just want yields at a lower cost? Then why isn’t there a single lab report that reflects that? You’d think with all these supposed sacrifices in quality, we’d have at least one piece of data backing you up. And if you genuinely believe that humidifiers use more power than air conditioners, then I’m sorry to say, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and lack a grasp on basic science.
 
Oh and btw, science lies, surprise !
Lab tests put led buds at the top in cbd thc etc
But people smoke it and they dont like it or buy it haha
So, i much rather listen to the people who smoke weed more then some obscured scientists in some lab pumping results that fit the narrative or the highest bidder
Like @HazeIsMids said, smoking is the only test that counts, and led bud fail that test each time, thats not me, thats people smoking it all over
Its funny, the best of the best led bud here sell for 3500$ a pound, while my non keepers not even close to a plant i will keep, sell for almost 5000$ hahaha
So take your lab test and bogus science and keep it and keep following it, your doing all of us hid growers a favour really
Go argue with those facts bud, good luck

"Science lies because it disagrees with me and hurts my feelings!"
 
Scientific American

LEDs do have a dark side. A study published in late 2010 in the journal Environmental Science and Technology found that LEDs contain lead, arsenic and a dozen other potentially dangerous substances. LEDs are touted as the next generation of lighting,” says Oladele Ogunseitan, one of the researchers behind the study and chair of the University of California (UC)-Irvine’s Department of Population Health & Disease Prevention. “But as we try to find better products that do not deplete energy resources or contribute to global warming, we have to be vigilant [about] toxicity hazards….”

Ogunseitan and other UC-Irvine researchers tested several types of LEDs, including those used as Christmas lights, traffic lights, car headlights and brake lights. What did they find? Some of the worst offenders were low-intensity red LEDs, which were found to contain up to eight times the amount of lead, a known neurotoxin, allowed by California state law and which, according to researchers, “exhibit significant cancer and noncancer potentials due to the high content of arsenic and lead.” Meanwhile, white LEDs contain the least lead, but still harbor large amounts of nickel, another heavy metal that causes allergic reactions in as many as one in five of us upon exposure. And the copper found in some LEDs can pose an environmental threat if it accumulates in rivers and lakes where it can poison aquatic life.
Ogunseitan adds that while breaking open a single LED and breathing in its fumes wouldn’t likely cause cancer, our bodies hardly need more toxic substances floating around, as the combined effects could be a disease trigger. If any LEDs break at home, Ogunseitan recommends sweeping them up while wearing gloves and a mask, and disposing of the debris — and even the broom — as hazardous waste. Furthermore, crews dispatched to clean up car crashes or broken traffic lights (LEDs are used extensively for automotive and traffic lighting) should wear protective clothing and handle material as hazardous waste.
HID bulbs are just as bad, if not worse, they can contain Mercury, Antimony, Thorium (radioactive), and Krypton 85 (radioactive).
 
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In the 1970s, the U.S. Navy experimented with growing vegetables on submarines to address the issue of limited fresh produce during long voyages.

Holman using LED and experimenting for the military says Tomatoes, and plants that like heat, struggle under LED. He says they will grow, and they tested 83 different plant species. But Leafy Plants, grew best under LED, while Tomatoes struggled.
We tested 83 different varieties of plants, including vegetables and fruits -- everything from strawberries to zucchini, beans and rhubarb -- a little bit of everything," Holman said. "About 51 of those 83 that we tried grew well in hydroponic conditions. The whole concept was to grow a salad for the submariners."

Leafy green vegetables did particularly well, but plants requiring more sun and heat, such as tomatoes, struggled.

"It does grow root vegetables pretty well, other than they come out a little bit smaller, shorter, because of the way that they grow," said Holman, referring to carrots and radishes.

Holman must issue a technical report by September for the Naval Undersea Warfare Center and the Navy Supply Systems Command that will help those organizations decide what, if any, fresh produce can be successfully grown at sea. Holman, who grew up on a Michigan farm and spent 30 years in the Navy, fully understands how fresh food can boost the morale of sailors on long deployments.
All those examples are not from the 70's, they are very recent, and to date have not been tested or deployed on actual subs.
 
All those examples are not from the 70's, they are very recent, and to date have not been tested or deployed on actual subs.
I know the one from Holman is recent. IThe short brief, also stated they experimented growing in subs in the 70s.

You can believe it, or not. I care not. All I know is the bulb was advertised in High Times, in 1977, and the bulb was used experimentally and they grew veggies, IN THE SUB.
Either Im lying, or they used it. Simple as that. Because I bought the motherfucker. Simple as that.
THESE AINT MY WORDS.

In the 1970s, the U.S. Navy experimented with growing vegetables on submarines to address the issue of limited fresh produce during long voyages.
 
I know the one from Holman is recent. IThe short brief, also stated they experimented growing in subs in the 70s.

You can believe it, or not. I care not. All I know is the bulb was advertised in High Times, in 1977, and the bulb was used experimentally and they grew veggies, IN THE SUB.
Either Im lying, or they used it. Simple as that. Because I bought the motherfucker. Simple as that.
THESE AINT MY WORDS.

In the 1970s, the U.S. Navy experimented with growing vegetables on submarines to address the issue of limited fresh produce during long voyages.
Could be that was advertising hype. I can find no reference to say the navy was using HID lights (or LED's) to grow vegetables in submarines, even to this day.
 
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Could be that was advertising hype. I can find no reference to say the navy using HID lights (or LED's) to grow vegetables in submarines, even to this day.
Dude, it was 50 years ago. Go through a bunch of old HT, and you will find it.

Right after-about 6 months after they came out with this bulb, someone came out with a bulb named the Supernova. It was more robust, ande they would warrant it, in shipping. The 1st one, had no warranty.
And whatever. It was 50 years ago, and am done arguing about it.
 
I talked to my buddy, who was a torpedo man on a sub, during the Viet Nam war, he never heard of growing anything on a sub, and he said there was literally no free space on the subs of those days, there was no way they could dedicate space to growing vegetables. Might of been an experiment, but it never made it onto a sub.
 
Its funny, the best of the best led bud here sell for 3500$ a pound, while my non keepers not even close to a plant i will keep, sell for almost 5000$ hahaha
No, nothing you say about your weed can be true cause youre a weed salesman and thus all good things you say about this is lies. You see how that goes both ways, right? My buddy also get paid about 40% premium for his, and since i only "sell" lights i guess im more trustable than you on buds? I mean im no weedsales man, just the lights?

Also dude when you call yourself "Big boy" ; it becomes self own comedy and its very hard to maintain respect; i was always of the opinion that if its too funny you can laugh at it no matter who get their feels hurt. Whos a Big Boy?? Youre a Big Boy!
Sorry but lols get me everytime someone who gotta remind themselves that theyre so awesome is the weakest tea ever.

Seed junky led bud
View attachment 5474269

My non keepers under HIDs
View attachment 5474270

View attachment 5474271

Everyone that grows under leds, the HID community salute you !
Less competition is always better
I attach some led buds of a sort of failed grow of ours: first time on new genetics and these were so fast flowering we couldnt keep up with them. Rest of the grow was 9 weeks these were done in 7 so we missed out on intensity and nute ramp up and they finished on us prematurely; they just werent as fleshed out as i would have hoped, but this was corrected on later runs; these were just the ones who actually came in front of a good camera.
P6160587.jpg
Lets have a nice close up of the sticky icky:
Screenshot_2025-07-21-22-16-40-84_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg
Im not sure what you see wrong with this frost, is it missing trichome heads? No neck on the tricomes? They honestly look like yours but a little more mature and amber (yeah we fucked up on a bit too much UV, learning experience i guess). 7 weeks and this mature. Please note im not saying its better, just that the pics dont look that different to me. Trying to be respectful as hard as i can, how about you try to be respectful; not to me but to just making sense and coming up with salient arguments? Figure out whats going on, id happily pick the brain of anyone growing fire with whatever lights if there was anything else behind it other than "mine yes, yours no".
"Leds are bad mmmkay"

Well of course i know youre going to come up with something, im also a born contrarian so recognize another. But i take the time to examine my own arguments, test them properly and reevaluate. And i honestly feel for you, id also be getting hella upset if everytime i tried led i get the same results I don't like. Blaming "led sellers" for it or whatever. Difference is that i took the time to try something different, made the effort to evaluate my results and build on that.

But does pics really prove anything? Not really, its just some pics, you only know when you smoke them. Ive not smoked your bud but i have smoked nice hps. Have you smoke ours? Pics are pics nothing more, can give an idea but not a full proof. But your HPS buds are not going to a world away from what we get around here, theres no lack of skills and genetics here.

So what f-ing point am i trying to make: its not the light source it is what is emitted; spectrum and intensity. It is what hits the leaf and bud that triggers the genes.
Yes, we get buds similar to your led bud on one fixture i built, a little better cause it has some uv and other shit added to it but yeah, those strange looking fox taily buds with "horns", hard and compact but with something missing. I blame myself for building it i bought in to advice from "led salesmen", not doing that again. Just build upon what ive seen, smoked and smelled myself and what i can figure out from reading and being inquisitive.

And ill happily admitt that there is a huge amount of shitty bud going around grown by leds. Too much green, bad red balance, no violet/uv and shitty balance in the uv tail. That can be corrected which is what i like doing. What can you do to change up the game with your hps? Same spectrum every time. Still can grow great depending on how you do it. But it doesnt give you any chance to vary the spectrum over the same genetics, so your stuck when it comes to learning what does what in plant morphology. Which means stuck with arguments of "its just bad" with notions of tests repeatedly. It just makes a good uplay for discussing and understanding sound like were talking flat earth.

Weve had this argument here and on icmag, dont think i dont recognize the way you argue and your energy. And its always a drag i dont even know why im in this thread anymore; its a waste...
 
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