LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
I found another site that said they can run on a T5 fixture with an adapter, but yeah it says the LED ballast is built into the bulb so you need to re-wire the fixture so that the power comes directly from the wall and not through the ballast. In other words, they do not run off the floro ballasts. Didn't think so. I'm sure it would be possible to wire your fixture up so that a few of the bulb slots are wired directly to the wall and the other slots are still wired to the floro ballast to run your T5 floros. At that point, you might as well get some retro kits and build your own fixture. The other problem with these LED tube lights is that they are only using 0.06w LED technology. That's pretty lame considering 1w, 3w and 5w single chip LEDs are already being used in the agricultural world. They would most likely run cool however, but not emit nearly as much light as a floro. Probably not even half the amount of light that floros do. The Kessil lights have a 2-year warranty, which doesn't say much. From the reviews I've read, if you get Kessil LEDs that work then they work really well, but if they are defective then I guess you just return them right? I figure it's worth a try anyway. I will measure the light output of both of the LEDs when they come and make sure they are putting out the same lumens. A year from now, I will check them again and make sure they are still putting out the same lumens. If not, then the manufacturer can send me another one or two for free! :)

The only reason I am going to try the Kessil lights is to add the much needed 660nm spectrum that is lacking with the floros. There is obviously no reason to get blue LEDs since the floros put out a healthy blue spectrum already. The Kessil I'm getting is the h150 Red, which only puts out 645-660nm spectrum. Hopefully I will be able to get the light to blend well.

AltarNation said:
if you DO need a certain fixture, it's this one I guess:

http://stores.homestead.com/GreenPathGardenSupply2/-strse-764/AgroLED--LED-/Detail.bok

The price is comparable to the price for a 4-bulb T5 48" fixture... but the bulbs are of course 80 a piece, so it'd be pricey to fill up that fixture.

http://www.amazon.com/LED-FAR-660nm-Grow-Light/dp/B004D50MFQ/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ol_2

Considering a couple of those in lieu of something like the Kessils... but I have no idea if it's quality...
Click to expand...
At $60 a piece for 12w, you might as well get a Kessil for $195 that puts out 36w. Then you don't have to buy any fixtures or do any wiring to make a spot for the par38 LED bulb.

http://blog.softwareadvice.com/articles/construction/are-led-fluorescent-tubes-ready-for-prime-time-1041920/



 
AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
Does make sense! I could do one kessil I guess, but I'm not sure how easily I'd be able to hit the whole 4x2 footprint inside my tent with the T5's in the way. It really depends on how close you can get it to the plants safely I guess. Still doubt I'd be able to get light across the whole footprint.

And yeah, I realize that the only reason to go LED is for the 660nm... I might have linked to a blue model but they do have a 660nm as well. That being said, if it's not 1w LED it's probably not worthwhile I'm guessing.

Even with the Wide model, I kind of doubt I can make the kessil work without flipping my T5's to a vertical setup or something... I'd end up burning the nearest plants even if I could get it in a spot that would hit the whole 4x2 canopy from the side...

--

Now that you got me investigating Kessils, those H350 models have some pretty damn sweet spectrum graphs... why am I messing with all these fluoros haha ;)

--

BlueB, if you can, when you get the kessils going let me know the closest it seems you can keep it to the plants comfortably... :)
 
F

falcon223

Active Member
You know you smoking good stuff when you are sitting here reading t5 info on the computer and you can hear a Triffid moving around in the grow room??
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
I posted a link a while back to a 660 LED bulb that screws in into a regular light fixture. Later I read where some chinese mfgs are simply putting red lenses over the diodes- not saying this bulb is one of those, but be aware. I will look for the link and edit.

This is a 660 UFO 90 for $135 http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=399

http://www.advancedledlights.com/products/SpectraBoost-Grow-Spotlight---15w-High-Intensity-LED-Grow-Light.html
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Yeah, i'm gonna skip those LED fluoro tubes, they seem like a bad idea...

Is tempting to go with something like this UFO you linked but with it needing at least 18 inches from the plants, I'd have to rearrange my tent and put my 8-bulb T5 unit in the back vertically. Otherwise I'd never be able to get the UFO to hit all the plants under my 2'x4' T5 fixture without frying some of them.
 
AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
Unexpected development... I was trying to reveg my favorite of the previous grows but it apparently hermied because I had 5 seedlings sprouting out of the soil yesterday morning. I transplanted them each to their own cups for now, and they are under a CFL. However, they're going to need more light long before my current batch finishes flowering. (Current setup just started 12/12 last week.)

So now I am thinking... I guess I will pick up a 4-bulb 48" unit and set it up separately to veg these ladies while the others flower... but can i get away with over 2 months of vegging 5 plants under one 4-bulb 4 footer? That sounds like I'd be pushing it...?
 
mipainpatient

mipainpatient

Active Member
There are some light therapy lights with weaker LEDs (you could put them closer, less rearranging?) on amazon for around $40, I talked to the company and the guy says they do a 90 day return full refund no questions so it seems like someone should try this some day. I think it was 660nm but Ive seen others that were lower. I believe I saw both E26 socket units and standalone for a tad more $$$.
Sorry if I'm repeating myself, has anyone tried the roseate?
mpp

edit:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=bl_sr_hpc?_encoding=UTF8&node=3760901&field-brandtextbin=Light-Therapy-LED
 
AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
I saw those light therapy lights... they do say not to leave them unmonitored and I'm not too sure how strong they are... but like you said, maybe weak is better for this application. Tough call. Would definitely need to know more about the units...
 
mipainpatient

mipainpatient

Active Member
AltarNation said:
I saw those light therapy lights... they do say not to leave them unmonitored and I'm not too sure how strong they are... but like you said, maybe weak is better for this application. Tough call. Would definitely need to know more about the units...
Click to expand...
4 watters (the unit not the diodes) = harmless
they are worried about skin damage from my understanding
 
AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but is it so harmless that it's pointless? That's the other end of the spectrum i guess. Still very curious. At 170 a piece I'd hope they do something.

Hmm, i was looking at a different one than you were. Those light bulb ones might be useful... i could set one up at each corner of the T5 unit or something... but even then, looking at someting like 180 bucks for those four... might be worthwhile if it works...

Edit: Found this review on a parallel listing: http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Aging-Light-Therapy-Lines-Wrinkles/product-reviews/B004E2E2OU/ref=pd_sbs_hpc_cm_cr_acr_img_5?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Not encouraging... but still, might have been trying to use it for more intense purposes. Still, not sure a weak LED is the solution to my problem either because I'd have to put a lot of those units around to spread a weaker intensity widely.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
AltarNation said:
Unexpected development... I was trying to reveg my favorite of the previous grows but it apparently hermied because I had 5 seedlings sprouting out of the soil yesterday morning. I transplanted them each to their own cups for now, and they are under a CFL. However, they're going to need more light long before my current batch finishes flowering. (Current setup just started 12/12 last week.)

So now I am thinking... I guess I will pick up a 4-bulb 48" unit and set it up separately to veg these ladies while the others flower... but can i get away with over 2 months of vegging 5 plants under one 4-bulb 4 footer? That sounds like I'd be pushing it...?
Click to expand...
If you use Air Pots simply start with smaller pots then transplant, which with APs is relatively simple/easy
 
AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
I don't have airpots... and I do start with smaller containers and transplant anyway. I'm not sure how that solves my problems though. Can you elaborate on the point you're making? Are you saying that if I had airpots I could leave them in the small containers to stunt growth longer if I wanted or something?

I do want to get some air pots fo' sho'... but they're a bit pricey... maybe i can make my own...
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
AltarNation said:
I don't have airpots... and I do start with smaller containers and transplant anyway. I'm not sure how that solves my problems though. Can you elaborate on the point you're making? Are you saying that if I had airpots I could leave them in the small containers to stunt growth longer if I wanted or something?
Click to expand...
Air Pots grow lateral root systems. Google and watch video. This allows for smaller pots to be used longer without stunting growth. You can easily fit 5 @ 1-2G APs under a 4 bulb
 
AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
Air Pots grow lateral root systems. Google and watch video. This allows for smaller pots to be used longer without stunting growth. You can easily fit 5 @ 1-2G APs under a 4 bulb
Click to expand...
Well... regardless of the container size or type, the plants' canopies are going to expand on me, that's where my concern lies... just wasn't sure if they are going to get too big to fit comfortably under a section of a 4x4 unit.

But, I think it might work. I'll probably go with this plan. I wasn't planning to have a veg and a flower chamber... ah well... haha.

I'm going to pick up a 5-pack of the 5 liter air pots too, since i found 'em a little cheaper on ebay. Thanks for the idea, PF.
 
Undercover Cop

Undercover Cop

Active Member
Mpp... I got my roseates, I'll post pics tonite roseate vs florasun vs plant grow. The roseates are very white compared though. I'm not impressed. The spd on their box doesn't look too impressive either (couldn't find one before purchase, I bought em just from the claim of 650nm) for the price I like the florasun
 
mipainpatient

mipainpatient

Active Member
AltarNation said:
Yeah, but is it so harmless that it's pointless? That's the other end of the spectrum i guess. Still very curious. At 170 a piece I'd hope they do something.

Hmm, i was looking at a different one than you were. Those light bulb ones might be useful... i could set one up at each corner of the T5 unit or something... but even then, looking at someting like 180 bucks for those four... might be worthwhile if it works...

Edit: Found this review on a parallel listing: http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Aging-Light-Therapy-Lines-Wrinkles/product-reviews/B004E2E2OU/ref=pd_sbs_hpc_cm_cr_acr_img_5?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Not encouraging... but still, might have been trying to use it for more intense purposes. Still, not sure a weak LED is the solution to my problem either because I'd have to put a lot of those units around to spread a weaker intensity widely.
Click to expand...
A unit that lacks intensity can be maximized by reducing the distance. My impression is that you are still trying to confirm a 660nm effect, the 90 day money back makes this a risk free so I was just pitching that Someone out there should try it Sometime. Honestly you should just solder your own 4-10 diode unit and test it that way. Will probably save you lots of $$$ and you can get the exact diodes you want. Just takes some know-how and some basic equipment....multimeter would be nice.
 
AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
mipainpatient said:
A unit that lacks intensity can be maximized by reducing the distance. My impression is that you are still trying to confirm a 660nm effect, the 90 day money back makes this a risk free so I was just pitching that Someone out there should try it Sometime. Honestly you should just solder your own 4-10 diode unit and test it that way. Will probably save you lots of $$$ and you can get the exact diodes you want. Just takes some know-how and some basic equipment....multimeter would be nice.
Click to expand...
Yarr... I have a little experience doing some soldering but I wasn't that great at it so I'm shying away from this sort of DIYing. Sounds like a good idea, though...
 
BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
I'm tempted to do some do it yourself LEDs for some extra 660nm after I see if they work or not. If these Kessil's show worthiness, then I may look into getting some 3w or 5w ledengine LEDs and do some custom work. I was thinking of making my own fixture that holds T5's and incorporate some red LEDs into it. (like a board with some reflective aluminum or something like that). I think it's worth doing the math, like figuring out the amount of 660nm wattage that you need to balance out the blue. I might even try flowering with a Horitlux Blue + a well balanced 660nm LED added to it. I figure with a 400w Hortilux Blue, it would probably take about 300w of 660nm red to balance it out to a 6:1 ratio. (or somewhere around there)
We are talkin big bucks for 300w of Red LEDs, but I imagine the outcome would be worth every penny.
 
W

Whatstrain

Well-Known Member
Sorry for the stupid question but i just got quoted $105 for 16 3' T5's. Does that sound right? and also would i be able to use coral lighting with them? Just seems like maybe they mishit a number or something as i would imagine the bulbs alone for a normal t5 is more than $105.
 
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