kpmarine
Well-Known Member
I moved my grow room to the root cellar, and it's 77.9F 10" below the lights. I'm sure if I sealed it off and took away the fan, it would get much warmer.
LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow
- Thread starter pr0fesseur
- Start date
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Long wave Red light cannot make it to the ocean floor as easily as blue light, thus the corals have adapted to using mainly blue light as their source of energy. Their photosynthesis wavelength absorption graph is different than that of terrestrial plants. Mostly blue and quite a bit less red. Terrestrial plants are the opposite. For fruiting, 20% blue, 80% red.
Coral reef light absorption example,
Vs, Terrestrial plant light absorption example,
Then for flowering, the blue part is very small.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
You would still want/need fresh air intake. I suppose you could have your "air out" somewhere at the bottom of your grow space in order to trap the heat in up high.
What is your R/H when you are "trapping" all that heat and moisture in at your canopy? High R/H is not good for flower development/high potency.
damn you're right. Maybe I should go with the t5 ho for the veg/mother room and do hps in the grow room. What bulbs should I buy if I'm just going to do t5s in the veg room? Does anyone know how much this will save percentage wise on my power bill if I go with t5s over a mh for vegging?If you are planning on flowering with CO2, how do you plan on raising temps with T5 HO lamps? Are you going to use a space heater and a dehumidifier to do the job?
Because if so, you pretty much defeated the purpose of T5 HO lamps in that all the electricity it will take to dehumidify the grow space, AND THEN heat up the air that the dehumidifier just got done cooling down will be quite a bit more than if you were to just use a HPS or MH which will heat and dehumidify your grow space for you.
The nice thing about HPS and MH and CO2 is that they work symbiotically together.
It's the same thing with LEDs. They don't heat up your canopy enough to induce proper respiratory action which prevents the plants from drawing up nutes and therefore stops growth. Ya pretty much gotta HEAT your grow room if you use LEDs or T5's with CO2.
Now your other option a CO2 generator because those burn propane or natural gas to produce your CO2, therefore you might be able to somehow use the waste heat from that to warm up your grow room. *DISCLAIMER* If the waste heat from a CO2 generator is meant to be vented outside because of CO emissions do not follow this advice. I have never used a CO2 generator before and am unaware at how they operate.
My suggestion if you are still going to use T5's for flowering is not to bother with CO2. I'm getting outstanding veg plants with the colored T5's which in turn is setting up my plants with strong stems, tight internodes, large fan leaves, healthy root base, all in a nice coco/perlite medium. I then use a combination of MH, T5's, and Leds to flower. Everything has always turned out rock hard, sticky as superglue, and tastier than koolade.
CO2 is nice, last year I harvested 14 dry ounces off of one plant. Yeah the plant was a 4 foot tree, but it grew in a 1 gallon bucket! Needless to say the roots got so thick I had to break the bucket just to get the plant out at harvest time. The root system got so dense it stopped draining water well and got a little root rot in one area.
CO2 can be a bit tricky if you don't have the other variables dialed in correctly. And if you don't, the CO2 will just float around the room and do nothing. Now if you live in an extremely hot environment already, more power to you. Make sure to keep your root zone cool when your room temps are above 90F!
No, I haven't bought them yet. I'm trying to get everything planned out right and then order everything at one time.
I'm trying to limit my self to 1k to get my whole grow operation up and running (ideally I would like to spend less).
Lucius Vorenus
Well-Known Member
There will be plenty of heat if you have enough bulbs going for that T5. I need a portable AC in a room that i run 32 T5 bulbs and if I turned it off it would be about 90 in that room consistently. With Co2 i like my temps at 82-84.If you are planning on flowering with CO2, how do you plan on raising temps with T5 HO lamps? Are you going to use a space heater and a dehumidifier to do the job?
Because if so, you pretty much defeated the purpose of T5 HO lamps in that all the electricity it will take to dehumidify the grow space, AND THEN heat up the air that the dehumidifier just got done cooling down will be quite a bit more than if you were to just use a HPS or MH which will heat and dehumidify your grow space for you.
The nice thing about HPS and MH and CO2 is that they work symbiotically together.
It's the same thing with LEDs. They don't heat up your canopy enough to induce proper respiratory action which prevents the plants from drawing up nutes and therefore stops growth. Ya pretty much gotta HEAT your grow room if you use LEDs or T5's with CO2.
Now your other option a CO2 generator because those burn propane or natural gas to produce your CO2, therefore you might be able to somehow use the waste heat from that to warm up your grow room. *DISCLAIMER* If the waste heat from a CO2 generator is meant to be vented outside because of CO emissions do not follow this advice. I have never used a CO2 generator before and am unaware at how they operate.
My suggestion if you are still going to use T5's for flowering is not to bother with CO2. I'm getting outstanding veg plants with the colored T5's which in turn is setting up my plants with strong stems, tight internodes, large fan leaves, healthy root base, all in a nice coco/perlite medium. I then use a combination of MH, T5's, and Leds to flower. Everything has always turned out rock hard, sticky as superglue, and tastier than koolade.
CO2 is nice, last year I harvested 14 dry ounces off of one plant. Yeah the plant was a 4 foot tree, but it grew in a 1 gallon bucket! Needless to say the roots got so thick I had to break the bucket just to get the plant out at harvest time. The root system got so dense it stopped draining water well and got a little root rot in one area.
CO2 can be a bit tricky if you don't have the other variables dialed in correctly. And if you don't, the CO2 will just float around the room and do nothing. Now if you live in an extremely hot environment already, more power to you. Make sure to keep your root zone cool when your room temps are above 90F!
Fonzarelli
Active Member
^^^^^^What the fuck was I thinking, yeah T5's do produce enough heat as long as you aren't venting all of the heat out with proper air exchanges. I guess if you keep the fixture close enough to the canopy it may be ok. I still don't see how trapping your heat in your grow room is going to vent out the extra humidity you need to get out to get your R/H level below 50% for budding.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Thats why I got rid of mine. Then had spend the money on other shit unfortunately. Still got one 8 bulb an led and a 1000w (trying to sell)..
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
33%, I have to add a humidifier to up it around here. I don't let it get that warm normally. I just wanted to get an idea of how warm the room could get.
Lucius Vorenus
Well-Known Member
U get a portable window AC that is a dehumidifier as well.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Ok in veg I have two 6 bulbs. Now one had 2 fiji, 2 ati aquablue special, 2 6500k. The other 2 ati aquablue special, 4 6500 k. It seems the fijis slowed growth tremendously. Nodes much closer together though. The girls under the other t5 are much larger. A little more than twice the size.
So a few days ago I took out fijis. Put them in flower in place of the coral waves. I swear the flowering sped up. I think the 2 weeks with the 3 coral waves slowed flowering. Might be too much 420nm blue. So fonz or poly or who ever said that might be right. The buds swelled up alot in those few days with the fiji's too. So now its 4 flora suns, 2 fiji, 2 redsun. When the redsuns die (soon probably) I will replace those with 2 uvl 660.
The fiji's might have more red than we thought. Maybe close to what we originally thought.
In my veg the fiji's look very purple. The closet looked like led with the redish purple look... They suck for veg. Maybe good to have 1 or 2 per 8 bulb in flower.
I bought the fiji's in the beginning, last september.
So a few days ago I took out fijis. Put them in flower in place of the coral waves. I swear the flowering sped up. I think the 2 weeks with the 3 coral waves slowed flowering. Might be too much 420nm blue. So fonz or poly or who ever said that might be right. The buds swelled up alot in those few days with the fiji's too. So now its 4 flora suns, 2 fiji, 2 redsun. When the redsuns die (soon probably) I will replace those with 2 uvl 660.
The fiji's might have more red than we thought. Maybe close to what we originally thought.
In my veg the fiji's look very purple. The closet looked like led with the redish purple look... They suck for veg. Maybe good to have 1 or 2 per 8 bulb in flower.
I bought the fiji's in the beginning, last september.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Keep us updated with photos on how that lamp mixture is doing for your plants. So far I haven't seen anyone with that much red in their fixture despite my recommendations. It should be a solid spectrum for budding.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
The fiji's are mainly 460 blue spectrum. They are the same as ATI's purple plus. If there is any red in it, the peak would be at 630nm and not enough to really make a difference. I'm sure that the reason you saw slowed veg growth with tighter intervals is because the over-abundance of blue.
I've completely stopped using deeper blue wavelengths in favor of 440nm and higher. Quantum Yield values for wavelengths between 440 and 460 are much higher than 400-420. You can also get away with fewer bulbs if they are in the 440-460nm range because they will effect your spectrum color greater than violet or indigo wavelengths(400-420nm). What I mean is, you can use fewer "blue lamps" and still get the color shift that is needed.
I am sure that the fiji's would be a better lamp for flowering since they are more in the 460nm blue region. It also could have something to do with your strains.
I think for veg, you just had way more blue than necessary.
Well, you will probably disagree like usual, but TMO anyway.
jsamuel24
Active Member
That would make sence, I am thinking of pulling my Fiji that I bought when I first started and put in a second flora sun for my veg. I wont be flowering on my T5's anymore since I have been aquireing 1000w's for my new flower room, and next year or 18 months from now will be moving to plasma (and yes, I know that the price point sucks on the plasma, but I like where the tech is and where it is going) Will allways be using the t5's for veg, and in 6 weeks or so I will prolly be suplimenting my 2000W with 3 4X4 t5's in the flower room. As allways though, this thread has made me rethink what I need to do around my garden.
Snooch
hyroot
Well-Known Member
I think I had too much red. When I tried all blue a year ago. They grew too fast and stretched alot. How do you know that the fiji and purple plus are the same? thomas pohl said the fiji had way more red. If your basing it off of reef geek forums. Those were all opinion. Unless you used a radiospectrometer or been to korallen zucht factory in germany then you really do not know...
Fonzarelli
Active Member
I AM THOMAS POLE!!!!!
J/K. Actually I just purchased a new spectrometer today. It is accurate to + or - 1nm. We will see just how right I am in a few days. I'm sure you will still have your doubts though. You seem to doubt a lot actually.
I think those reef geeks tend to know a little(A LOT) more than us when it comes to aquarium lamps. After all, they've been in the industry longer than any of us have even been growing I'm sure. Those Aquaristik folk tend to know dar sheeznit.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
I haven't stopped using MH for flowering. I still have one small room that has a 1000w MH 3K Sunpulse for flowering along side 4 x h150 Kessil reds to boost the deep red spectrum since MH do not have much red past 630. Very little 630nm at that.
I did some T5 bud rounds a couple months ago just to see what all the hype was about, and I wasn't that impressed with the results. I do like T5's for vegging however, and I will never do anything else. I'm working on a secret spectrum of my own that has been literally working for every strain, and every type of plant that I've put under it. I don't know why it works so well yet, I will be able to see what's going on in the lightwaves when the spectrometer comes.
I'm so broke now. This device better be worth it for fuck sake! Those German's have all my money now!
jsamuel24
Active Member
Would love to compare spectrums with you sometime bro, if you feel like it feel free to pm me.
Snoogins
hyroot
Well-Known Member
In all the threads on reef geek. They dont all agree on what the fiji is. They have the same debates. I'd love to get a radio spectrometer. But I dont have $8,000 to spare. Or let alone $250 to just rent one for a day. I have an oscilloscope though. Thats for audio ....
Fonzarelli
Active Member
^^^^^^^I bought a spectrometer. This will verify the wavelength peaks in the Fiji spectrum and put a cap on this debate once and for all. It was $1800, not $8000. I don't have that kind of cash. lol
It's accurate to the nearest 1nm so it should be fine. It gives intensity counts over wavelength just like the SPD's from most lamp manufacturers do.
It's accurate to the nearest 1nm so it should be fine. It gives intensity counts over wavelength just like the SPD's from most lamp manufacturers do.