Let's Debate

beardo said:

Do you under stand the bible and it's stories are meant to teach lessons- they are parables.

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nursery rhymes teach lessons too , so does burning your hand on the hot stove .

beardo said:

Paul wrote eye witness accounts while in prison- They are in the Bible.

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like i said, even if it was proven(wich it could never be ) that the bible was an eye witness account , it still wouldnt be credibal evidence , many people lie in eye witness accounts .

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:

nursery rhymes teach lessons too , so does burning your hand on the hot stove .

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Both offer solid foundations for youth to build uppon and are important lessons to learn, as are those taught in the Bible.
Good luck keep practicing-

we are back to the same point .............why cant you prove your god exists , it should be so easy ........?

beardo said:

Both offer solid foundations for youth to build uppon and are important lessons to learn, as are those taught in the Bible.


Good luck keep practicing-

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yeah but one is known to be fictional the other is often thought as of fact

listen mate you have to forget about using the bible in your argument , otherswise you will be ripped apart, like i just did to you ,all day long ........all day long

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:

listen mate you have to forget about using the bible in your argument , otherswise you will be ripped apart, like i just did to you ,all day long ........all day long

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You Have no dabate skills and no origonal points or arguments- and have lost another round.
Tell your self whatever you need to to make yourself feel better.
I will check back later and see if your skills have improved.

the best religion is the one that makes you a better person
I'd keep lookin if I was you
Seems you have a way to go

beardo said:

You Have no dabate skills and no origonal points or arguments- and have lost another round.
Tell your self whatever you need to to make yourself feel better.
I will check back later and see if your skills have improved.

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err yeah ok mate , all you have done is quote verses from your little book of bullshit , even the basic christian has enough sense to know quoting the little fairy tale book has no more credibility than me quoting the side of a pack of corn flakes .

you my friend have been owned big time .

have you ever walked into a door and then had it spin back and twat you in the nose ,in a busy ,posh restaurant ? this is how beardo is feeling right now .

Has anyone ever committed acts of blasphemy against a God you swear doesn't exist
But had a nagging fear that he could exist and that he could know of the sins you have committed, that he might know of your envy and pride and penchant for deranged acts of homosexual bestiality. Knowledge that if he does exist he sees everything that you do and knows everything that you think- Knowing you are to be judged accordingly and that no wicked deed shall go unpunished, Knowing that all you have to do is accept God and live your life in his honor to be saved and that if you do not an eternity in hell is what awaits you?
Has that fear and uncertainty caused you to devote your life to lashing out at people who have faith and find truth and peace in God and Religion
That's how sativa is feeling right now.

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how do i know that you exist? you truly have issues!

why are you better then anyone else?

Who made you king?

how do you know that cat doesnt hate you?

you must feel real good about yourself dont you?

there are things i can tell you, but you wont believe them because you have already made up your mind... Arguing with you is like arguing with a drunk, no point will ever be reached...

I dont know why you are such a dick.. why do you HATE people who believe in God? what gave you the right to be more then me or beardo?

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:

we are back to the same point .............why cant you prove your god exists , it should be so easy ........?

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ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:

yeah im better at debating than all those guys , im asking in my own thread .no one can can cum up wid anything to make me believe in there certain god

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You can not make someone believe.
If you are looking for proof of God, The fact you are alive should be all the proof you need.

My 'God' is that which provides me food, shelter, and the basic needs of my life... I love my Mother Earth.

There are many gods around in my understanding of things, the Sun as we know it... an amazing God it is as well, for it also gives me life and allows Mother Earth to survive!

beardo said:

You can not make someone believe.
If you are looking for proof of God, The fact you are alive should be all the proof you need.

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There is no need to make him believe God/gods exist because he already believes. He provided his own proof when he explained the existence of love. Love in its true form he said is a thought, and even that thought can be imitated outside of its true being. In either case they both exist and are given reality through their portrayal. Therefore God exists to him in its nonexistents. The non existent God also controls and dictates his daily life. Something that a non existent god could do.

His good goobly Goo god has no power over me.

There is no way to prove God dose not exist nor is their a way to prove that he dose,because we seek proof of his existence in such a way that it could never meet the expectations or standards of mental tangibility or apparent human logic, given youre an atheist.So we are left with either choosing faith or not,for those that do believe and worship,thats a life style choice, while other people want the answers that the faithful choose not to look for,which is good to seek that truth and not be controlled by the machinations of other people with agendas posing as holy people.Yet there is a need or a call to sequester logic in the reality of our very existence,given humankinds logic is of a systematic nature and can therefore only perceive what is within reasoning itself,the concept of God and having a creator encroaches upon this innate understanding we have,therefore we are inclined to question it always.Essentially it is the perspective or belief of the person delving this topic that will equate the answer as to whether or not god exists.

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:

i bet no fucker will debate with me cause they know deep down there belief is total nonsense .

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Nah. That aint the reason.
The reason is, there's zero point. Neither position CAN be proved.....at least by any living person. ya gotta be dead, first. Once we're dead, there will still be no point in arguing, LOL---because IF we're still around TO argue, clearly we're "still there". if we've blinked out of existance, clearly there will be no "one" to do the arguing.

What I find most interesting is, there are still people who want to re-argue this tired old subject.

If you dont want to believe there is some kind of "god", that's your perogitive. If I choose to believe there is a Divine Intelligence, that's mine. In a hundred million years, you nor your fellow atheists cant and wont "prove" a damn thing. Neither will I and several billion other Believers "prove" a damn thing to you.

So....if we can agree on any one thing, let's agree that this endeavor is a complete and utter waste of your time, mine and everybody else who even reads these posts.

With that said, hey, WTF, I aint busy.

What twists my tits the most about you atheists is your overwhelming hubris. (look it up)

From the lofty pinnacle of your own six poind brain, your____years of experience, your limited-by-necissity point of view, you guys still insist you "know" something you cannot possibly know. It never fails to crack me up. Reminds me of any schoolyard 8 year old insisting there IS, by god (or is not) a Santa Claus.

This weighty hubris doesnt allow you to simply acknowledge, "I dont really know Jack Shit". Nope....you guys just gotta pretend that your guess, impression, opinion is actually founded upon Something, LOL.

And it IS!

It's based upon your essential lack of imagination, smallness of scope, micro-vision (as opposed to Macro-vision) and a child-like ego that continues to insist IT is the center of the Universe, the Point from which ALL wisdom flows.

It's been my experience that generally when people claim to be atheists, what they mean is, they cant buy into christian mythology.

Well, congrats. You must have an IQ above 90 to have realized virgins dont give birth, dead guys dont rise from the grave and Moses wrote that silly crap all by himself, no "Voice" from a burning bush calling itself "I AM" said shit

And generally, having risen above a knee-jerk 'faith" in this mythology, typically, any greater concept of "god" gets thrown out with the bath water. It's such a pathetically linear thought progression...."I KNOW this Bible stuff is bullshit, therefore, there is no God."

Good grief.

Or the Other Thing happens. Many an atheist USED to have some kind of vague acceptance of the possibility of a Godhead UNTIL a personal "tragedy" of some sort occured. "IF there was a God, He wouldnt have let MY sweet old mom die!" (or dad, or child or favorite dog) Thousands of moms, dads, kids and dogs died before, but MINE should be given special consideration because, hey, I am ME!"

Atheism always (read my lips, ALWAYS) stems from this ME as Center of the Universe perspective. Ego. "IF there were a God, I would KNOW it. I dont know it, therefore, there IS NO GOD."

Holding on to the atheist POV requires a great deal of dismissal of the experience of Others. Anybody who claims to have seen a ghost, anybody who claims to have have had a near Death Experience, anybody who claims to remember a past life, anybody who gas had a personal Revelation of Spirit is clearly either a blithering moron OR simply lying thru his teeth. MORE hubris? Sort of, "I have never seen a ghost, therefore, there are no ghosts."? "I have never had a personal Revelation, therefore NOBODY has"? "I have no recollection a a past life....therefore reincarnation is a hoax"?

By that same "logic", I can say with certainty that there is no Wyoming. I have never been to Wyoming, therefore there is no Wyoming. Wyoming is a fantacy, a myth. IF such a thing as Wyoming existed, well, I woulda seen it (because, after all, I AM THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE, dammit.

Basically, you guys bore the piss outa me. You're tiny. Small. Simple. And because you're tiny and simple, you have to believe the Universe is tiny and simple, too. "It all happened spontaneously, with the Big Bang".

Let me point something out. Before we build a house, first we THINK, "hey...Im gonna build a house!" The THOUGHT exists, first....and the physical manifestation of the house follows. The actual pile of bricks/mortar and glass arranged into the shape we call, "a house" is insignificant, a natural follow-through of the Thought/Inspiration, "Im gonna build a house!"

Would any house exist without that Inspiration? How many houses build themselves?
In fact, isnt the IDEA the truly critical part? The ONE part upon which the actual physical manifestation rests and relies?

Let's say the IDEA is primary and the house is secondary. (or, do you want to argue that obvious point, too?) With this in mind, WHERE was the physical Universe the second BEFORE the Big Bang? WHAT was the Impetus? WHOSE, the Idea, the Inspiration?

Here's the thing. The Thinga Importanta, if you will: ALL things exist on the Causal Plane BECAUSE they first existed on the Plane of Potential. The Soup of Possibility. The Matrix. This is the SAME plane in which dreams exist. In the dream state, I can fly. On this manifest physical plane, alas, I cannot. I am bound by physical forces of gravity. In the Dream state, I can walk thru walls. Alas....in this manifest physical reality, I cannot.

How sadly limited we are, caught within this Realm bounded by the physical Laws. (interestingly, Einstein defined "God" as, "The sum total of the physical laws of the Universe". I like Einstein as much as the next guy, but on this, he was just a little off. God exists OUTSIDE the physical laws. The physical laws only apply to the physical Universe. During the alloted 72 years we spend inside a physical body, we, too are bound within those physical limits and laws.

The issue at hand is, did I (we) exist BEFORE and will I (we) still exist AFTER our bonds to the physical are cut by birth/death? Do we pop into existence at the moment of conception and blink out again when we flat line?

Maybe.

Or is this experience we call, "life" merely a short (damn short) journey into the physical---with a built in loss of memory of what came before?

Atheists believe that consciousness is a by-product of brain activity. Thus, when the brain dies, so does consciousness.

But I suggest, not by a long shot. Consciousness IS that Matrix of Potential. Consciousness is not individual, not corralled within any individual brain, but Universal. It IS the very Stuff of God, Itself. Before we were conceived into the physical, Consciousness existed. AFTER the brain dies, that Consciousness continues on, NON physically. The crappy little 72 years we spend bound by physical laws is irrelevent in the Big Picture of MANY Lives, punctuated by MANY ventures back to the NON physical or Causal Plane.

The ONE Constant, whether we are currently physical or not is God, Itself. The Manifestor, the Creator, the Matrix, the Stuff of Potential. THERE IS NO OLD GUY WITH A BEARD AND A LONG WHITE ROBE. Nobody who looks surprisingly like Charlton Heston is goona meet you at the "Pearly Gate"....because "He" AND the "pearly Gate" are nothing more than christian mythology, having nothing to do with The Creator.

And there's about an hour of my life I'll never get back, LOL.

Fortunately, I aint busy. I notice I didnt "prove" a goddamn thing.

Feel free to waste an hour or so of YOUR time, gentle atheist.....trying to "prove" me "wrong". The one caution Im compelled to utter is, your time is clearly much shorter than mine if you believe you ONLY have the relative blink of time your physical life alloows you. You might be better off getting laid or eating a cheesburger. Time is running out, man, for you and all the other little atheists.


CW

beardo said:

You can not make someone believe.
If you are looking for proof of God, The fact you are alive should be all the proof you need.

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LOL! See, I totally GET that. Anybody who has ever seen a corpse oughta be able to see it. The only difference between a corpse and a living person is that the corpse has been "unplugged". Like a toaster, from that which animatess it--a toaster MUST be animated by electricity. UNplug it and it's dead.

WE are animated by Spirit...or "God". That which we call, "death" is the UNplugging of the physical body from that which animates us. If the toaster is unplugged, we dont doubt the existence of electricity. We recognise the toaster is simply no longer connected to it. The electricity itself is a constant.... unquestioned. Who would say, "OMG! My toaster doesnt work! Therefore, there is no electricity!"

CW

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:

come on christians fuckin debate if your so real it should be no problem .

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Ooops! Gee, I shoulda read further, LOL. So you ARE one of those who figures, "Since christian mythology is BS, There Is No God, at all."

BIG NEWS! Christianity is a VERY young religion. For MANY milinea beofe the birth of JC, people looked around themselves and said, "SOMEBODY created all this". In the beginning was/is The Mother. Early humans assumed That Which Creates Life must be Female. Our First God was The Great Mother. Gender was attributed to the moon, ever changing, as female. The sun, ever bright and constant, was assumed to be male. Jesus showed up about five thousand years later, in the mid east, where the Patriarchy ruled---and naturally created themselves a FATHER god. The "Great Mother" wass abandoned in order to support the notion of male dominance and superiority.

Had it not been for Constantine pushing the new religion called, "Christianity" out from Rome into the rest of the Roman-dominated world, we westerners woiuld STILL be worshipping The Great Mother and celebrating the Wheel of the Year (solstices and equinoxes), all "provable" by even 21st century standards. Judeaism insisted God was a male....Christianity insisted upon the notion that God was a male.....and JC was his "son". Interestingly, JC NEVER claimed to be the LITERAL "son of God". He consistantly referred to himself as the "son of Man." His references to his "heavenly Father" were not individual, but universal, in that all men are the "sons of God".

Not until some five hundred years after JC's death was it decided (by men) that JC was the LITERAL "son of God". I personally think JC would be apalled. I think JC wanted all people to know that ALL are God's children, not JUST the Jews (of which he was a member). I dont think he ever intended to be a founder of a new religion, let alone considered to BE a virtual extension of God the Creator. I think he'd shit, in fact, that his followers "made" him a god when his own Belief as a Jew was, "There shall be NO other Gods before me."

Christians decided to make JC the literal "son of God" for political reasons---making THEIR Deity better than any god who came earlier. The Power of Politics--- IF we can make people believe JC IS the ONLY Path to God....then WE can control everything. Thus, the Catholic Church was born, LOL...the single most powerful and wealthy force on the planet to date. And IF we can convince people to "confess their sins".....well....what secrets WONT we know?

Come on. Christianity was born of politics,. not spirituality. Spirituality is NOT about any particular group having the Inside Track to Eternal Life. Jesus KNEW this--his entire message was this. That ALL men were the children of God. But this was radical shit in his day and could not be allowed if Jews were to continue to believe they alone were the "Chosen" people. Not to even mention the politics of the day, insisting that Rome was the Center of God's world and the Emperor alone was at the pinacle.

Im not surprised Christianity got started---Im just a bit gob-smacked it still exists in the Age of Reason. Seriously....does anybody still favor the "miracle" of "virgin birth" over the much more likely possibility a 15 year old Jewish girl finding herself pregnant out of wedlock and needed a damn good excuse? Especially when a prophecy of such a birth already existed? What a smart chick she was! "hey, listen, Joseph..... OK, so Im pregnant...but listen, I SWEAR this Angel of the Lord came to me, and....."

WHO the fuck would even begin to believe such a load of crap today? The one guaranteed thing about humans is, IF somebody writes down a "prophecy", you can count on somebody else making sure it's "fulfilled". Even JC himself sent one of his guys to buy a white donkey so he could ride into town on it---to fulfil the prophecy that the "Mesiah" would arrive on a white donkey.

That the Nicean Council decided on WHICH testimonies would be included in their Bible and which would not .....should be the first clue that just MAYBE the Bible doesnt tell the full story....yet, today's Christians, even knowing that MANY ancient scrolls have been discovered much more recently than the much-edited scrolls their Bible is (loosely) based upon are extant....just sort of ignore them.

Fooey, sez I. I am the Blood and Blood of thousands of generations of Western European stock, not a single mid Easterner among them. Im fine with the Old Religion of MY people--the Celts, the Druids, those who worshipped the Great Mother for many years before the birth of The Carpenter in a land so far away, a culture so far removed, from Us.

But, WTF, Im OK with anybody who does choose Christianity, long as they dont really believe they ALONE are "the Children" of God and have a Free Pass to Eternal Life. Really....would you join a County Club that excluded Jews, Hispanics or Blacks? Nooooo, most would be horrified at that obvious injustice. But, the notion of the exclusion of billions of souls because they are not christians still seems reasonable? Is God a rasist? A few billion Buddhists, Hindus, etc. can what....just go fuck themselves?

Something I find really intriguing is this: There is amazing little known about the man we call, "St. Patrick". We all wear green and get drunk once a year in his honor....but most have no idea at all who the fuck he was.

You can google him....and learn everything there is to know, which aint too damn much. We know he was kidnapped and sold into slavery....then escaped....became a priest, went back to the British Isles and "reformed" the Old Religion. Huh.

We're told he converted the Druids with his sermon about the three leafedd clover, the "trifoil", by pointing out that the clover had three leaves, one for the Father, one for the Sone and one for the Holy Ghost.

Are you kidden me? What growup who had worshipped the Goddess for 10 thousand years would just give up their beliefs over a goddam three leaved clover? I mean, seriously? Yet....what little history has left us regarding this retreat from the Old Religion and to the New one assures us this is exactly what happened. Evidently, thousands of Druids saw that fing clover, threw down their ancient beliefs and said, "JC for ME!"

Get the fuck outa town. What history doesn not tell us is....how many men with swords came WITH Patricius to the British Isles? How many were slaughtered before the Druids said, "well, OK....JC for me"? WHY ELSE was the Old Religion driven underground?

I dont give a rat's ass if you or anyone else decides to call himself an atheist. I mind hell out of the ignorence of believing the alternative is being a Christian. Trust me, there are any number of alternatives to Christianity. Before deciding there is No God, you might devote a bit of time to the study of the OTHER religions....Buddhism, Hinduism are a good start. (not to even mention Conducianism, Jainism, Taoism, the Soufs, et.etc.etc.) If those dont appeal, look into the Native American religions, the African religions, the Australian Aborigine beliefs, and if all those fail and you're a white guy of western European descent, you might just be a Pagan at heart.

That you even assume the two sides of the issue are Christianity and/or atheism
as if NO other alternatives count reveals way too much ignorence on your part.. You're just yet another of the many who dont buy the Christian mythology and jump to the conclusion, "if that aint so, then there aint no god.".

HINT: There are as many Paths to God as there are people looking for God.

CW