Lets talk about "Other" COBS !

Trippyness

Trippyness

Well-Known Member
Greetings,

So ill get right down to it.

Why are we as a community not sourcing high Lumen per watt COBS from Manufacturers overseas for a fraction of the cost? Built in newer chip dies?

Over the past week I have been searching for high quality COB Chips made with New Dies not the old cheap $3 COBS you see on Aliexpress.

After a ton of weeding out crap suppliers and speaking to many.

I have come up with 2 options that are very high lumens to rival CXB 3590 at much less.

Option 1: 50W COB 3500K 80CRI
Run at 700mA @ 34.8V = 24.36W. Basically 25W COB.
Thermal Resistance 0.78 C /W
150LW+
120 Degree Viewing Angle
20 * 20mm COB
Cost = 3.10 USD or 4 CAD

Option 2 100W COB 3500K and 4000K and 5000K avalible
Run at 1400mA = about 50W
Thermal Resistance 0.78 C /W
150-160/LW+
120 Degree Viewing Angle
38 * 38 COB
Cost = pending
If run at 700mA I can see around 170 maybe 180/LW.

I have checked over these datasheets and they seem to be using high quality dies.

Ill be getting a few 50W and a few 100W and do some tests, but it seems that we can source good quality COBS with 5 year warranty and all certifications.

Here is what they look like.





Here is NOT WHAT IM TALIING ABOUT



So it seems we as a community can source high lumen and output COBS at a fraction of Cree and Bridgelux Vero price points.

Ill be testing the PAR output of these COBS as well as intensity against CXB 3590 and Vero 29 3500K top BINS.

From what I can tell this seems to be a very good alternative and I see no reason to go Cree other than Branding.

I am aware of china lying about numbers, but this is a very reputable company with very serious datasheets.
Prices are good in bulk and if all is well ill be picking some up in bulk to give to the community for low prices.
These prices make HPS obsolete.

Please no BS comments. I know how to source products and have been doing so for years and am very aware on how to cross check.

Please keep the comments civil.

Trippy.
 
Maine_Coast

Maine_Coast

Well-Known Member
This is very exciting! I look forward to seeing what you find and trying a few. This would be a game changer all around. Thank you!
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
Trippyness said:
.

I have come up with 2 options that are very high lumens to rival CXB 3590 at much less.

Option 1: 50W COB 3500K 80CRI
Run at 700mA @ 34.8V = 24.36W. Basically 25W COB.
Thermal Resistance 0.78 C /W
150LW+
120 Degree Viewing Angle
20 * 20mm COB
Cost = 3.10 USD or 4 CAD

Option 2 100W COB 3500K and 4000K and 5000K avalible
Run at 1400mA = about 50W
Thermal Resistance 0.78 C /W
150-160/LW+
120 Degree Viewing Angle
38 * 38 COB
Cost = pending
If run at 700mA I can see around 170 maybe 180/LW.

Trippy.
Click to expand...
You know it's cool that you are researching cheaper options, that is right up my alley, but neither of these "rivals a CXB3590". No need to exaggerate to make things sound good.

The first looks good for the price. The second has no price, and without temperature data it's hard to judge either one.

Since they have "very serious" datasheets could you link them please? Why are you keeping the reputable company name a secret? That's odd.
 
P

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
Trippyness said:
Greetings,

So ill get right down to it.

Why are we as a community not sourcing high Lumen per watt COBS from Manufacturers overseas for a fraction of the cost? Built in newer chip dies?

Over the past week I have been searching for high quality COB Chips made with New Dies not the old cheap $3 COBS you see on Aliexpress.

After a ton of weeding out crap suppliers and speaking to many.

I have come up with 2 options that are very high lumens to rival CXB 3590 at much less.

Trippy.
Click to expand...
Its a good endeavor to search through other mfgs. Cree pricing is problematic for everybpody including cree. Probably why the stock\company is struggling despite having a good product.

But more testing than just datasheet numbers is required. Consistency of bins\batches, reliability, one off failures, reliable supply chain, and decent warranty servicing. Quality control is ever more important for the small custom builder or diy grower because of the the impact of a one off.

Third party rigorous testing is needed. Are you willing to do that ?
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
@PurpleBuz Nichia and Citizen seem to be the best alternatives, and the hardest to find, sadly. And nobody has to say "I am aware of Japan lying about numbers but...".

Anyway, lets see what we got here since @guod googled up the source...well the 100W cob doesn't list a whole lot of information, and the datasheet download link is broken. Not off to a good start here.

But apparently these are the numbers... 150-160lm/w at an unknown temperature but presumably Tc=25, for the 4000k 70 CRI version at 117W, which is very good, almost unbelievably so.

Of course it's forward voltage is not even the same as what @Trippyness listed, and I can't find a real datasheet to download, so it's really difficult to actually say anything of substance.

Here is the alibaba listing http://getiangroup.en.alibaba.com/product/60445808984-214759752/180lm_w_150w_high_power_COB_LED_module_3838_high_power_LED_for_spot_light_with_Mac_Adam_3_or_5_steps.html

Which says 180lm/w, then 170lm/w, then 150-160lm/w, and hell if I can figure any of this out.

I still say, show me a very serious datasheet, please.
 
P

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
Last edited:
Trippyness

Trippyness

Well-Known Member
JorgeGonzales said:
You know it's cool that you are researching cheaper options, that is right up my alley, but neither of these "rivals a CXB3590". No need to exaggerate to make things sound good.

The first looks good for the price. The second has no price, and without temperature data it's hard to judge either one.

Since they have "very serious" datasheets could you link them please? Why are you keeping the reputable company name a secret? That's odd.
Click to expand...
I have temperature data as well.
Reputable Manufacturer. I am waiting to get all the details Monday. Ill post some datasheets.
Not a secret just waiting to get facts straight and do testing before releasing more info.
 
Trippyness

Trippyness

Well-Known Member
Ill be getting more precise data on Monday about temps at the common COB temps.
I just refuse to pay the high Cree prices and I know for a fact there are LED companies doing the same with new Dies.

Ill be posting some more detailed info and possibly some Manufacturer PAR numbers to compare.
Ill be testing everything in a 2 x 2 tent under same conditions.
Will through up a video.
I just think we should be thinking outside of the box.
Getting COBS at high lumens and good output and high quality at reasonable prices.
We are all getting fucked with Cree Prices. Vero are better but still unreasonable.
If tests go well Ill pickup many COBs and have them available in North America AT Factory price as LED and COBs need to be more affordable.
Im not here to make a cent, just to help this community and in the hopes of reducing COB costs with great output and photons.
ill be testing a few color temps.
 
Trippyness

Trippyness

Well-Known Member
JorgeGonzales said:
@PurpleBuz Nichia and Citizen seem to be the best alternatives, and the hardest to find, sadly. And nobody has to say "I am aware of Japan lying about numbers but...".

Anyway, lets see what we got here since @guod googled up the source...well the 100W cob doesn't list a whole lot of information, and the datasheet download link is broken. Not off to a good start here.

But apparently these are the numbers... 150-160lm/w at an unknown temperature but presumably Tc=25, for the 4000k 70 CRI version at 117W, which is very good, almost unbelievably so.

Of course it's forward voltage is not even the same as what @Trippyness listed, and I can't find a real datasheet to download, so it's really difficult to actually say anything of substance.

Here is the alibaba listing http://getiangroup.en.alibaba.com/product/60445808984-214759752/180lm_w_150w_high_power_COB_LED_module_3838_high_power_LED_for_spot_light_with_Mac_Adam_3_or_5_steps.html

Which says 180lm/w, then 170lm/w, then 150-160lm/w, and hell if I can figure any of this out.

I still say, show me a very serious datasheet, please.
Click to expand...
Ill have a serious datasheet on Monday sometime.
Like I said, ill be testing these under ideal conditions and posting them here.
My main goal with this is to reduce Cost of COB with high quality and price.
Not here to make a dime, but help myself and others and if we can cut costs we can help this industry.
People will always buy Cree and Vero and others, but for the ones who do the research can save some big money if all goes well.
Ill upload the datasheets tomorrow and have results soon enough.
 
Trippyness

Trippyness

Well-Known Member
OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:
do you have a link?

150-160 lm/w ........ye may be onto something

it may help us get our aquaponic salad greens setup going better at an affordable price

now we need inexpensive efficient drivers!!

all the best with it
Click to expand...
Cutter has some very good priced Drivers other than Meanwell. Pariui and LSD I believe.
 
Trippyness

Trippyness

Well-Known Member
JorgeGonzales said:
@PurpleBuz Nichia and Citizen seem to be the best alternatives, and the hardest to find, sadly. And nobody has to say "I am aware of Japan lying about numbers but...".

Anyway, lets see what we got here since @guod googled up the source...well the 100W cob doesn't list a whole lot of information, and the datasheet download link is broken. Not off to a good start here.

But apparently these are the numbers... 150-160lm/w at an unknown temperature but presumably Tc=25, for the 4000k 70 CRI version at 117W, which is very good, almost unbelievably so.

Of course it's forward voltage is not even the same as what @Trippyness listed, and I can't find a real datasheet to download, so it's really difficult to actually say anything of substance.

Here is the alibaba listing http://getiangroup.en.alibaba.com/product/60445808984-214759752/180lm_w_150w_high_power_COB_LED_module_3838_high_power_LED_for_spot_light_with_Mac_Adam_3_or_5_steps.html

Which says 180lm/w, then 170lm/w, then 150-160lm/w, and hell if I can figure any of this out.

I still say, show me a very serious datasheet, please.
Click to expand...
China is bad for poor translations and just false crap. Ill be getting PDF datasheets tomorrow.
We will see then. Looks peomising
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
If you keep talking about how overpriced Cree is, you better find a legitimate alternative.

You won't, by the way. I built my lights using Citizen cobs, which are great for the money, destroy anything from Bridgelux, and crap all over Cree at higher watts.

But Cree is king of efficiency at lower watts, which is why people pay. Not the brand name, the performance.
 
Trippyness

Trippyness

Well-Known Member
JorgeGonzales said:
If you keep talking about how overpriced Cree is, you better find a legitimate alternative.

You won't, by the way. I built my lights using Citizen cobs, which are great for the money, destroy anything from Bridgelux, and crap all over Cree at higher watts.

But Cree is king of efficiency at lower watts, which is why people pay. Not the brand name, the performance.
Click to expand...
Mainly looking for 1.4A and .7A. If prices are good enough to drive low Cree is beat. Cree is not the only light maker who makes very high lumen COBS.
We will let the results speak for themselves.
Ill be running them at 1.4 and .7 on the same drivers ill be running cxb3590 top bin.
All im saying is if prices are good enough to run very low us diyers can save alot. People will always use Cree, but what im saying is cost to drive them low enough for high lumens will be worth it at those currents.
I cannot justify around 95CAD per COB. In the US its cheaper but again if we can find COBS with high lumens at much lower peices we can drive them low and still save tons
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
Well, nobody is beating Cree at 1.4 either, sorry.

Cree scales better at lower currents than other makers.

Editing to add, because Imsound a little harsh, that just because you won't beat Cree at any price, doesn't mean it's not worth looking for hidden gems out there.

Try to beat Bridgelux and you'll have an easier time.
 
Last edited:
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Trippyness said:
Ill be getting more precise data on Monday about temps at the common COB temps.
I just refuse to pay the high Cree prices and I know for a fact there are LED companies doing the same with new Dies.

Ill be posting some more detailed info and possibly some Manufacturer PAR numbers to compare.
Ill be testing everything in a 2 x 2 tent under same conditions.
Will through up a video.
I just think we should be thinking outside of the box.
Getting COBS at high lumens and good output and high quality at reasonable prices.
We are all getting fucked with Cree Prices. Vero are better but still unreasonable.
If tests go well Ill pickup many COBs and have them available in North America AT Factory price as LED and COBs need to be more affordable.
Im not here to make a cent, just to help this community and in the hopes of reducing COB costs with great output and photons.
ill be testing a few color temps.
Click to expand...
Omgz. I'll build a fuckin 40 cob light for my 4x4 :P
 
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