Lindsey Graham is leading a National Abortion Ban.

DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
If that is true, wouldn't an abortion then "perhaps" be murder ?

Does the status of the unborn somehow shift based on whether the parent wanted it or not?
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It changes with time and development and it would be very hard to get a doctor to perform a third trimester abortion unless the life of the mother was at risk. Abortion is not a black or white issue, it is a complex ethical issue, taking a morning after pill is a different situation than demanding to terminate an 8 month pregnancy for personal reasons. There is a point of no return for most pregnancies and that point is usually the third trimester. It is a question best left to doctors, medical ethicists and to the woman, but pregnancy is a dynamic situation and at some point her rights become fused and equal with that of the child.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
Nobody has any rights except those the constitution, the law and the UN charter give them
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What you have described are revocable privileges. A right to be a right, isn't something other people can grant you. If that were so, the question then becomes, "how can a person delegate a right to other people, if none of them had or have a given right to begin with" ?

I await your concise and informative reply.

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Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
It changes with time and development and it would be very hard to get a doctor to perform a third trimester abortion unless the life of the mother was at risk. Abortion is not a black or white issue, it is a complex ethical issue, taking a morning after pill is a different situation than demanding to terminate an 8 month pregnancy for personal reasons. There is a point of no return for most pregnancies and that point is usually the third trimester. It is a question best left to doctors, medical ethicists and to the woman, but pregnancy is a dynamic situation and at some point her rights become fused and equal with that of the child.
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So the third trimester person HAS or does not have the right to live ?

It IS or IS NOT double murder if you shoot and kill the third trimester "thing" and the mom ?

Are you implying that a 5 month fetus extinguished is not murder, but an 8 month would be ?
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
What you have described are revocable privileges. A right to be a right, isn't something other people can grant you. If that were so, the question then becomes, "how can a person delegate a right to other people, if none of them had or have a given right to begin with" ?

I await your concise and informative reply.

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Those have rights that dare to defend them is a truism, rights do not exist as you envision them, they are a construct of political philosophy. Might makes right, unless you live in a liberal democracy with the rule of law. That means being part of a community, not existing as individuals in libertarian Hell, until an organized community exterminates you as individuals.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
So the third trimester person HAS or does not have the right to live ?

It IS or IS NOT double murder if you shoot and kill the third trimester "thing" and the mom ?

Are you implying that a 5 month fetus extinguished is not murder, but an 8 month would be ?
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That's generally what the law allows and it's a question best left to professionals and those involved and is really none of my or your concern. Women have rights and family planning rights are among them, we will see if they dare to defend those rights in November. Mitch looks like he swallowed a turd when Ms. Lindsey spouted off about abortion for a reason.

BTW, what do you think about 10 year old rape victims being forced to give birth?
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
That's generally what the law allows and it's a question best left to professionals and those involved and is really none of my or your concern. Women have rights and family planning rights are among them, we will see if they dare to defend those rights in November. Mitch looks like he swallowed a turd when Ms. Lindsey spouted off about abortion for a reason.

BTW, what do you think about 10 year old rape victims being forced to give birth?
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Nobody should force anybody to give birth, that's a private matter, not for politicians to decide.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Nobody should force anybody to give birth, that's a private matter, not for politicians to decide.
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Then why are you whining about abortion? It is at the very interface of being a human with rights versus an biological blob of cells and is something I personally would not want to wrestle with. It is a complex issue and they don't lend themselves to simple solutions or simple minded laws.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
Women have rights and family planning rights are among them, we will see if they dare to defend those rights in November.
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All people have the same rights. No person has the right to murder though.

Which begs the question, "if aborting a being created via rape ISN' T murder, how is extinguishinge a similar being (if someone shot and killed the mom from a different pregnancy) a "double murder"?

Is the unwanted unborn "less equal" than the wanted unborn ? Should a fetus be responsible for the rape crime of the father?

Even after it is born, would the child bear responsibility for crimes of the father ?
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
It changes with time and development and it would be very hard to get a doctor to perform a third trimester abortion unless the life of the mother was at risk. Abortion is not a black or white issue, it is a complex ethical issue, taking a morning after pill is a different situation than demanding to terminate an 8 month pregnancy for personal reasons. There is a point of no return for most pregnancies and that point is usually the third trimester. It is a question best left to doctors, medical ethicists and to the woman, but pregnancy is a dynamic situation and at some point her rights become fused and equal with that of the child.
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No one terminates an 8 month pregnancy- it's a WASP boogeyman urban legend.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
All people have the same rights. No person has the right to murder though.

Which begs the question, "if aborting a being created via rape ISN' T murder, how is extinguishinge a similar being (if someone shot and killed the mom from a different pregnancy) a "double murder"?

Is the unwanted unborn "less equal" than the wanted unborn ? Should a fetus be responsible for the rape crime of the father?

Even after it is born, would the child bear responsibility for crimes of the father ?
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Let's ask the children of Sandy Hook.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
All people have the same rights. No person has the right to murder though.

Which begs the question, "if aborting a being created via rape ISN' T murder, how is extinguishinge a similar being (if someone shot and killed the mom from a different pregnancy) a "double murder"?

Is the unwanted unborn "less equal" than the wanted unborn ? Should a fetus be responsible for the rape crime of the father?

Even after it is born, would the child bear responsibility for crimes of the father ?
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That's what, medical ethicists, judges and lawyers are for Rob, it's above our pay grade
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
What would Lindsey know about women? Other than both of them liking men.

Elise Jordan: Graham Proceeding With Abortion Bill The Way He Did With Failed Presidential Run
41,890 views Sep 15, 2022 Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-SC, continues defending his controversial bill that would ban abortion after 15 weeks nationwide as several of his GOP colleagues push back.
 
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