looking for advice on flush period

althor said:

Hrm, ok whatever.... I am OCD, its a problem I have dealt with for a long time and is also why I do experiments like the above, I cant help myself.

Does that make you feel better about yourself?

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Heygurlll said:

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althor said:

Don't be mad that my bud is better than yours, you cant help it.

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There have been a lot of debates on this forum about flushing and there is a lot of misunderstanding about it in general flushing has its place in gardening and in the real world (other than MJ forums) is referred to as leeching

This will be a long read but I hope it will set the record straight for everyone, this has been posted in several places here but I am putting to post together to clear things up a bit for all of you

first a ditty from Sensi Seeds with links verifying,,,

From an administrator at Sensi Seeds

"Advanced - Flushing

A critical look at preharvest flushing

Pre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

A good read about plant nutrition can be found here.

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

http://www.hort.wisc.edu/cran/Publications/2001 Proceedings/min_nutr.pdf

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

http://acd.ucar.edu/~eholland/encyc6.html

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

http://www.sidwell.edu

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

http://www.sirinet.net

Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

Translocation:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.

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MD914 said:

By including "MD" in your post therefore dragging me into such a redundant argument. One that I am not a part of and refuse to be a victim of...Pinworm didn't address me in any of his posts you did
It's ok for others to have an opinion that is different from yours...unless your in a country controlled by ISIS of course

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althor said:

Interesting....

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Pinworm said:

Look at it this way. Why would you put months of effort into feeding them properly, only to starve them when they are going to be working their hardest to produce for you?

Flushing is for toilets.

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Heygurlll said:

You see, when you get the compulsion to lie and pull shit out your ass, at least have the brains (and balls) to stick to your story Nancy. I'm hardcore facepalming. You arent worth a second of anyones time on here. By now, you are just troll-chum. Careful or the real sharks will come out and eat your skinny tuna ass.

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althor said:

why does pinworm feel the need to bumrush the thread and start calling names?
.

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Pinworm said:

I was actually the first to post in this thread. You were the one who stumbled in and starting making ridiculous claims about these experiments you say you've done. You got upset when I called you out for being a liar. And, after two days, you haven't posted any information to back up any of your nonsense. Nobody can honestly be this stupid. You must be trolling.

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sum182 said:

I use riddle's boiling method. If your not familiar with it, you do a normal watering but with boiling water 3 days before you chop. This is for quality, not quantity. As to the why, here's a copied explanation from chuck estevez

the whole point of his process is FERMENTATION. the plant is full of glucose,sugars,starches. How do you make those ferment? Cut off the oxygen they receive. So, you come to the end and you are ready to chop, You pour the water on the roots, therefore, killing them, WHALLA, no oxygen getting to roots, said sugars etc, start to ferment. So the curing starts happening after about 3 days of no o2. And you will see the plant wilt after a couple days and change color, someone mentioned earlier about it being a pain to cut them off after doing this, easy solution, cut fan leaves off over that 3 day waiting period.

Basically just starts the curing process earlier to improve quality.

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Pinworm said:

"Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn't be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue."

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622/

Here's a good read for anyone that's still dumb enough to think flushing is some how beneficial.

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Pinworm said:

I was actually the first to post in this thread. You were the one who stumbled in and starting making ridiculous claims about these experiments you say you've done. You got upset when I called you out for being a liar. And, after two days, you haven't posted any information to back up any of your nonsense. Nobody can honestly be this stupid. You must be trolling.

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althor said:

Oh I think I get it, you are trying to say I am a liar.... Ok, if that is how you feel, run with it.
Not sure what you could possibly think I am lying about, but OK.....

And your reading comprehension sucks.

Read it again. I have done this over years and years, 1000s of plants grown during that time, during that time I have flushed a lot of plants and I have not flushed a lot of plants.

I have done side by side comparisons atleast 50 times (where I took clones and compared clones). That is different from the above statement.

There are times when I have plants out grow my box (I grow sativa mostly)
and I CANT EVEN TAKE THEM OUT TO FLUSH. I didnt do a "side-by side" comparison with plants like that, I simply did not flush them.

READING COMPREHENSION.

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althor said:

If someone chooses to flush

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Dr.Pecker said:

Not flushed, no boiling water,grown organically and the taste is divine. I put them in a jar to cure in October still jarred up. I have grown 1000s of plants for realz. Been doing it for 20 years. The only time I ever needed to flush was when I was using chemical fertilizer and had a lock out issue. There was a time when I thought I knew everything and nobody could tell me shit. Then I grew up and started listening to the old hippies and gardeners. Now I do everything organic and wont even put fertilizer salts on my tomatoes. I think if somebody like doublejj, MD, or frenchy gave me advice I would say thank you and give it a go not give a rebuttal. Let me ask you what plants whether it be flowers or fruit do you flush to increase yield other than your pot?View attachment 3355560 View attachment 3355570View attachment 3355578 View attachment 3355582 The only time I smoke other peoples pot is when they grow it the way I do. I just prefer it that way its very smooth and flavorful but hay to each their own right.

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