Microarthropods?

vitalsine

Well-Known Member
I posted in the bugs subforum but I am starting to think that these are microarthropods... I know you fellow organic growers must have seen these before. They seem to be eating the grokashi that I topfed about a month ago. Hate double posting but I figure if they aren't bugs and they are indeed microarthropods, this would be the place to discuss. Thanks!

 

vitalsine

Well-Known Member
I didn't introduce any bugs at all! Where tf would they have come from? I haven't been in or near anyone's gardens.
 

vitalsine

Well-Known Member
Just for reference, you can't even see these things in the soil, they are SO small... like a grain of fine sand. I took a bunch of macro photos of the soil and I can't see them anywhere, then when I look with the microscope they're everywhere lol.
 

vitalsine

Well-Known Member
This photo was posted in the bug section where I asked about them first...



They look a lot like I and N with the hairy asses.
 

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
Do the bugs in the runoff jump or "Spring"?
Fox Farm soil is known to come with bugs. Generally not beneficially from most reports but those do look like Hypoaspis miles cruising around in your soil :peace:
 

vitalsine

Well-Known Member
Do the bugs in the runoff jump or "Spring"?
Fox Farm soil is known to come with bugs. Generally not beneficially from most reports but those do look like Hypoaspis miles cruising around in your soil :peace:
All the bugs in the runoff looked like they were dead/drowned, a couple were twitching. They were most definitely not there before, I would have noticed them in the runoff... They would have been hard to miss...

Pic for reference
DSC09041.jpg

My soil was a mix of ProMix/CoCo/Perlite initially, no amendments or nothing. If you remember, in my journal, we talked about how they were looking hungry. Also talked about because the soil was inert, my organic nutrients probably weren't working up to par... This was about 6 weeks ago, give or take. Since then I have started adding microbes, alternating recharge and mammoth P weekly, a dose of Photosynthesis Plus once a week, and a dose of SLF100 once a week. I did a topdress with grokashi one time, then I did a topdress with Ocean Bounty the following week, about a week after that I put some ewc (I said compost earlier, my bad) and then finally about a week ago I topdressed with a light layer of basalt rock dust. Just a few days ago I covered the tops of the pots with barley straw from build-a-soil. Other than that I haven't introduced anything. It would have had to have been in one of the things I top-dressed, but even then I haven't noticed the bugs in runoff until yesterday... and I regularly test it, and remove all runoff after every watering. How could they show up without me putting them in? Just hoping they aren't damaging anything... I can't really check the roots because everything is scrogged. Plants are looking very healthy though and are stacking up really nice. Just entered week 5 of flower today.
 

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
All the bugs in the runoff looked like they were dead/drowned, a couple were twitching. They were most definitely not there before, I would have noticed them in the runoff... They would have been hard to miss...

Pic for reference
View attachment 4701387

My soil was a mix of ProMix/CoCo/Perlite initially, no amendments or nothing. If you remember, in my journal, we talked about how they were looking hungry. Also talked about because the soil was inert, my organic nutrients probably weren't working up to par... This was about 6 weeks ago, give or take. Since then I have started adding microbes, alternating recharge and mammoth P weekly, a dose of Photosynthesis Plus once a week, and a dose of SLF100 once a week. I did a topdress with grokashi one time, then I did a topdress with Ocean Bounty the following week, about a week after that I put some ewc (I said compost earlier, my bad) and then finally about a week ago I topdressed with a light layer of basalt rock dust. Just a few days ago I covered the tops of the pots with barley straw from build-a-soil. Other than that I haven't introduced anything. It would have had to have been in one of the things I top-dressed, but even then I haven't noticed the bugs in runoff until yesterday... and I regularly test it, and remove all runoff after every watering. How could they show up without me putting them in? Just hoping they aren't damaging anything... I can't really check the roots because everything is scrogged. Plants are looking very healthy though and are stacking up really nice. Just entered week 5 of flower today.
A lot of bugs are native to a lot of areas.
I am pretty positive any pest issue I have ever had was simply the native pests figuring out where my garden is, even though it is indoors.
Could have also come in with the Worm Casings or even hitched a ride in the straw.
Looks like you have a pretty significant population going there though so I would say found your garden weeks ago or came in with the worm castings if they were a fresh type thing and not sealed in a bag on a shelf for the last year.
One a side note - the only other person I have seen have a Springtail problem was @hybridway2 and he also was in promix :peace:
 

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
For reference this was Hybridways bugs at the time when we were trying to eradicate.
I belive he took the nuclear option but don't go doing that if you plant to reuse the soil :peace:20190504_112740.jpg
 

vitalsine

Well-Known Member
For reference this was Hybridways bugs at the time when we were trying to eradicate.
I belive he took the nuclear option but don't go doing that if you plant to reuse the soil :peace:View attachment 4701472
Not too worried about the springtails, from what I understand they eat old vegetation and stuff and don't really pose a threat to the plants. I was told I could cause more damage trying to eradicate them than they could even cause. One person I spoke with even went as far as to call them beneficial lol. Honestly, I don't really give a shit if they live in my soil, as long as they don't kill the plants. I am all about symbiotic relationships, if we can exist together without issues than I am all for it. haha. I will keep you in the loop.

As for the worm castings, I got them at home depot lol. They were in a sealed bag on a shelf. Just for the hell of it I searched through my other soil which uses the same worm castings, no bugs! Also, the grokashi was about 2 years old, it had been sitting in my shed, sealed. That would leave the Basalt Dust and Grean Bicycles. Additionally, the other soil I checked is using the same bagged ingredients as the flower tent (promix, coco, perlite, all from same batch). They have to have found their way in somehow. If they came in the build-a-soil straw that would be crazy, I literally put it on 3 days ago.
 

vitalsine

Well-Known Member
Pretty funny I actually just found a guy on YouTube that is from the town next to me who says he's had them frequently and doesn't kill them anymore and not sure if it's related, but he hasn't had PM or any mold/rot since. lol. Not sure if he knows what he's talking about but his plants looked healthy and swole. I'll take it!
 

Star Dog

Well-Known Member
I can't say what they are but I commented recently on a "living soil" thread, I've seen plenty of life in my coco and 100% perlite, using a reasonable quality microscope (250/300x) you can see it's not dead like common knowledge suggests it's heaving with life forms.
Your bugs look bigger than anything I saw however if the plants are healthy I wouldn't be concerned.

I read upthread about some brand coco having spring tails in it?
Htf anyone can conclude that is beyond me, springtails are in most households and will actively search for moisture for various reasons, they get in through gaps in the zips atracted by light.
Springtails in particular are beneficial to a garden they only eat decomposing matter.
 

vitalsine

Well-Known Member
I can't say what they are but I commented recently on a "living soil" thread, I've seen plenty of life in my coco and 100% perlite, using a reasonable quality microscope (250/300x) you can see it's not dead like common knowledge suggests it's heaving with life forms.
Your bugs look bigger than anything I saw however if the plants are healthy I wouldn't be concerned.

I read upthread about some brand coco having spring tails in it?
Htf anyone can conclude that is beyond me, springtails are in most households and will actively search for moisture for various reasons, they get in through gaps in the zips atracted by light.
Springtails in particular are beneficial to a garden they only eat decomposing matter.
No doubt. The videos are shot at about 400x, maybe more, I have a 1000x USB microscope I used to get the videos. The photo on the other hand is shot with a macro lens, the little puddle of bugs you see is probably no more than 1/3 of an inch across. They're damn small. Almost look like sawdust or grains of sand. Anyway, I am going to keep them around. From what I understand, if those are hypoasis miles in there as well, I read that they eat springtails? We'll see. Thanks for chiming in!
 

Star Dog

Well-Known Member
20190504_112740.jpg
This photo reminds of something I used for springtails, I don't expect it'll be much use in the soil but maybe?
If they are in your dwc/nute trays or tanks basically anywhere they're floating.
Use a wetting agent and they drown, the wetting agent disrupts the surface tension taking there floatability away.

It might well also work to a degree in the substrate?
Bugs can/do use the hairs on their abdomen to trap air also some bugs are water proof, a wetting agent would combat both of these mechanisms making them wet and taking away the air bubble?

Detergent is a common additive for greenfly treatment I think or expect it's because it's a wetting agent???

Anyways wetting agent works on nutrient if springtails bother you.
 

Northwood

Well-Known Member
I posted in the bugs subforum but I am starting to think that these are microarthropods... I know you fellow organic growers must have seen these before. They seem to be eating the grokashi that I topfed about a month ago. Hate double posting but I figure if they aren't bugs and they are indeed microarthropods, this would be the place to discuss. Thanks!
Soil mites that eat dead organic material like the Oribatids are an important part of nutrient cycling. If you've done everything right, you should have at least dozens of species of mites - both predators and the benign recyclers. If you don't have them, you need to introduce them. That can often cost money, but usually they come for free and just appear. Hypoaspis miles aren't the only kind of predatory mite either, there are thousands of species.

One way to roughly monitor the biological activity in your soil is by the numbers and variety of these bigger (relative to bacteria!) creatures you see in your grow. If you don't see them in your organic grow you likely have a serious problem that needs attention. Yes that includes springtails too. I figure I get at least a pound or two of free insect frass each grow cycle from the high population of springtails under my mulch alone! Plus predatory mites love their larvae, and those guys need a steady supply of food to prosper.

Seeing the photo of drowning springtails made me sad. :(
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Just for reference, you can't even see these things in the soil, they are SO small... like a grain of fine sand. I took a bunch of macro photos of the soil and I can't see them anywhere, then when I look with the microscope they're everywhere lol.
When I open up my worm bin I get these tiny bugs jumping around like a flea circus. They come with the vermicompost; dunno if they hatch from somewhere outside or even how they got in but there’s millions of them. I’ve never done anything but thrown kitchen scraps into the bin. Amazing how nature overtakes the soil even while seemingly separated from the outside in a plastic tower.
 

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
When I open up my worm bin I get these tiny bugs jumping around like a flea circus. They come with the vermicompost; dunno if they hatch from somewhere outside or even how they got in but there’s millions of them. I’ve never done anything but thrown kitchen scraps into the bin. Amazing how nature overtakes the soil even while seemingly separated from the outside in a plastic tower.
Springtails.
 

vitalsine

Well-Known Member
Soil mites that eat dead organic material like the Oribatids are an important part of nutrient cycling. If you've done everything right, you should have at least dozens of species of mites - both predators and the benign recyclers. If you don't have them, you need to introduce them. That can often cost money, but usually they come for free and just appear. Hypoaspis miles aren't the only kind of predatory mite either, there are thousands of species.

One way to roughly monitor the biological activity in your soil is by the numbers and variety of these bigger (relative to bacteria!) creatures you see in your grow. If you don't see them in your organic grow you likely have a serious problem that needs attention. Yes that includes springtails too. I figure I get at least a pound or two of free insect frass each grow cycle from the high population of springtails under my mulch alone! Plus predatory mites love their larvae, and those guys need a steady supply of food to prosper.

Seeing the photo of drowning springtails made me sad. :(
Well I'm glad they shacked up then haha. They must be living underneath the pots as well as within the soil, cause I'm not sure how theyd come through the cloth pots. Id rather not kill them if they're not harming the plants, even more so if they're a sign of good soil and are beneficial. I dont mind a few creepy crawlies as long as they stay in the tent. If they had wings it might've been a different story though haha.
 

Star Dog

Well-Known Member
I've started recycling my coco recently, when I was sifting out the old roots I was quite happy to see a few springtails in there, they'll be munching away on the old roots for weeks/months to come.

They are not difficult to put up with in substrate but clouds rising from nutrient isn't a nice sight to be greeted with, I'm pleased to see them now but I have spent time and money in past getting them out of nutrient trays with a pump and filter :-( only through ignorance tbh.
 

vitalsine

Well-Known Member
I've started recycling my coco recently, when I was sifting out the old roots I was quite happy to see a few springtails in there, they'll be munching away on the old roots for weeks/months to come.

They are not difficult to put up with in substrate but clouds rising from nutrient isn't a nice sight to be greeted with, I'm pleased to see them now but I have spent time and money in past getting them out of nutrient trays with a pump and filter :-( only through ignorance tbh.
Looks like I'm gonna stick to hand watering for a while then lol. I have a 24 carrot blumat setup I want to install at some point between my two flowering tents but I'm in no rush. Was meant more for when I travel for work and vacation, but that ain't happening til this damn rona goes away anyway...
 
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