My first Root is Down

diggs99

diggs99

Well-Known Member
.RootDown said:
I remember when you had that early nute burn, I thought it was around day 20 but dang day 47.
Glad you responded, the logic side of my brain says wait. I need to stop listening to the other side for a bit longer.

I didn't know CalMag supplement was tied to temperature. I thought it was how much TDS was available in tap water (mine is 138ppm).
The past week and a half or so I've been keeping the exhaust fan one the cooling circuit, so temps are very steady slow swing from 75-82. I'm concerned about fresh air intake however. When the fan is on constantly it's a constant swing between the same temps, but up and down quickly all day long. Less than ideal and humidity take a huge hit as well. I think the six inch fan may be a bit much for my small tent. I have a speed controller set to minimum. I went with six inch because it's a long run to vent through the roof.

I just ordered a fan controller/timer which will allow me to turn on the exhaust for a set time period every hour. I'm thinking ten minutes on, thirty off. Hopefully this will give me the best of both worlds of temp control and fresh air intake.
Click to expand...


Man I wish I could tell you more regarding the calmag and why led growers are using more . I thought I remembered it being something to do with the temps being low causing the plants to not uptake nutes or something like that.

Im at work right now, im pretty sure the thread was here on RIU that I read it.

Search google led users and calmag rollitup
It should come up
 
diggs99

diggs99

Well-Known Member
Just went back through my journal, it was actually day 31 that I tried feeding them

Day 47 I gave them nutes when I flipped

I did however transplant up from 2gs to 5gs in that time aswell, so once I did that the new soil fed them again for another week or more before I started feeding them.

My first feeding was 550 ppm
My tap water is 45-50 ppm
 
.RootDown

.RootDown

Well-Known Member
Day30 VEG
Temps/humidity levels great with the fan off (actually it's on the cooling circuit so it does come on periodically), but I'm still concerned with airflow. Mentioned it to the wife and she said she'd start bringing home dry ice from work- hopefully that'll supplement some CO2.
73-82, usually around 79F and 55-60%RH
Today I tied down another stem, it was shading some other growth.
Watered pH 6.5 yesterday. Holding off on nutrients still. I plan on flipping March 12. VEG will be a lengthy 8 weeks but I think I had a slow start compared to some other grows I've followed.

I have that fan timer on the way, https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/APCTART so I can run the exhaust periodically. I'd still like to be able to have the fan be able to turn on via multiple inputs- I'd like to have it on the cooling, dehumidifier, and the recycling timer. I'd also like to have an "ON" switch to just flip it on as needed. Each one of the devices supplies power to a 120v plug. Been looking into alternating current relays, I hope I can come up with something. I'm cool with DC, but Alternating Current kind of scares me due to some childhood trauma.

I got a new toy today- An Apogee MQ-500 Quantum Meter!
I've been running 125W at 24" (more like 20" because of the growth), which gave me 430 umoles at the top of the three tallest stems and 320 at the tops of the lowers.
I increased to 150W for 520 and 400 umoles respectively.
I tried 150W six days ago and there was some leaf curling at the end of the day, if it's still too much I'll back it back down.

Another toy on the way- I ordered an infrared thermometer to get a read on leaf temperature so I can tune Vapor Pressure Differential.

Still don't know how to type μmol with unicode in Ubuntu yet.
 

Attachments

.RootDown

.RootDown

Well-Known Member
Day 32VEG
Tied down the three tall stems to make the canopy fairly even. By the end of the day she was already bouncing back, but did look a little stressed.
I'm fairly happy with the results I've gotten from LST so far. Flip isn't until Mar 25 (almost three months from seed) so I've got awhile to go.

Day 33VEG
So not the best day... she wasn't happy with 500umoles.
Looks tired, light stress. Also it's watering day.

Light-
Verified 500umoles at top of canopy.
Raised the fixture to 24" from this now even canopy, this reduced the PPFD to 400umoles. Still "rocking" 150W. Those four inches make a pretty big difference. I still want to get the driver off the heatsink. I decided to mount it at the top of the tent, inside next to the carbon filter. It'll be a PITA to reach the dimmer, I wish I'd gotten a "B".

Water/Nutrients-
I decided to feed. 25% to start. I'm day 33 in VEG, but day 49 since sprout.
7.5ml FoxFarm Big Bloom 0-.5-.7 with 1ml Silica pH 6.46 total PPM 220 (1gal tap 138ppm 48hrs venting in tent 48hrs)
I gave her the whole gallon- she's in a three gallon fabric pot- and got about 10% runoff.
First feeding- I'm nervous!

CO2-
Dry Ice. Got dry ice yesterday, today it's half gone. I guess a refill every two days as long as I can get away with it.
I don't have a CO2 meter yet. Dang those are expensive. Yes I've bought some expensive toys *Apogee PAR meter* but I hadn't planned on another hundred bucks right now. It'll have to wait.

Temp/Humidity-
Exhaust fan is still on the cooling circuit. Temps are fairly consistent 75-82F and the swings are not sudden. The fan or heater are not doing much but are there when needed. So while I want to move the LED driver to the top of the tent, having this heat isn't really a bad thing right now. Perhaps I'll get another clip-on fan blowing from way up top downward.
RH isn't really a problem with the exhaust fan not coming on much, about 55% fairly steady. I haven't had to refill the humidifier much, and expect to do so even less now that the soil is soaked.
 

Attachments

.RootDown

.RootDown

Well-Known Member
Day45 VEG
Wow I haven't updated in awhile. She's been struggling for about a week now, since Day39 Feb28 (there was a temperature drop that day, but temps were restored quicly)
DSC00341.JPG

Today and yesterday she looks better than she has been since. I still have a lackluster color in the leaves- I've had that for several weeks now but the colors don't seem to show up in my pictures. This did not improve after I started feeding. I tried raising humidity levels based on VPD. I got a fan controller to cycle the fan on for sixteen seconds every five minutes- that's helped bring more fresh air in while maintaining temp/humidity levels.

Some rust-colored spots appeared on a few of the older leaves, and yellowing of some as well.
DSC00350.JPG
DSC00343.JPG

Looks like calcium deficiency to me. I watered last on Sunday, and the medium was still a little damp so yesterday I applied CalMag 5ml/gal as a foliar spray application. I was also planning on transplanting to the final pot this weekend- I did that today instead. I added some dolemite lime to the FoxFarms Oceans Forest with 1/3 perlite. I watered in with the CalMag and 1ml/gal silica, and applied as a foliar spray.
During the transplant I inspected to roots- they were grown completely to the sides and bottom of the pot. The pot felt light, when I stuck my finger in the medium I could detect a small amount of moisture. When I cut the fabric pot off the root ball remained completely in tact, everything felt very dry and I was thinking it was definitely time to water. The roots which were visible looked ok to me, mostly white. I didn't disturb the root ball, but I wish I had...
DSC00356.JPG
DSC00357.JPG
DSC00358.JPG
DSC00360.JPG

because when I reviewed the pictures the root ball does look wet/damp. It really took me by surprise to see this in the photos because it felt very dry... Of course I only felt the outside inch or so, and we're in fabric pots. Maybe my drooping issue really IS overwatering.

Reviewing my watering schedule
Day23 Feb12
(transplant Day24 Feb13, very little water at outside edge only)
Day27 Feb16
Day30 Feb19
Day33 Feb22
Day37 Feb26
Day41 Mar2
(transplant Day45 Mar6 heavy soaking)

Every one of those days the pot felt very light, and the medium was dry to the 2nd knuckle of my index finger. Also the soil meter generally agrees, with the probe 3/4 of the way down pointed more into the root ball- this one was taken Day37 Feb26. The pot was SCARY light and she was tired looking. The next day she was perked up nicely. Then Day39 Feb28 there were some temperature drops, she stressed, and since then has looked like crap.
DSC00321.JPG



And here's her new home... Temporary home. The five gallon pot gives more depth, but only an inch or so around the diameter. I think I need a seven gallon. I'm going to have to transplant soon- I'm flipping on Mar12. She's smaller than I wanted before flipping, but I'll be travelling mid-July and want to be through harvest by then.

DSC00361.JPG
DSC00364.JPG
 
.RootDown

.RootDown

Well-Known Member
Day46 VEG Mar07
There was an immediate improvement from the transplant.
DSC00365.JPG
DSC00367.JPG

Not great... but a significant improvement.
However the five gallon increase was nothing. The five gallon from a three gave more depth, no diameter. Today I transplanted to a TEN gallon. No pictures after the transplant, except to take these-

DSC00368.JPG

Oh crap! I broke the crotch of the main stem! This happened when I was getting the branches tied back down- have to control the canopy. I improvised with a few zip ties.
DSC00369.JPG
(and this one from Day 8)
DSC00374.JPG
 
.RootDown

.RootDown

Well-Known Member
Day47 Veg
WOW this is an immediate improvement from the transplant last night.
The transplant was to a ten gallon. The roots were already wet since the previous transplant was just last night. It was a risk, but I wanted to take immediate action. I figured it's better to stress her now rather than again in a week.
Ocean's Forest, 30% Perlite. I still have just a little bit of both left so one bag of each was enough to get me through the entire grow. Mixed the wet soil with the dry for an even mixture, added a 55gram packet of roots organics Oregonismxl for the mycorrhizae, as recommended by my local hydro shop sprinkled where the rootball meets the soil. The soil also has 1lb dolemite lime for additional calcium and buffering, and it was watered in with CalMag.
I watered in 1gal around the edges of the pot only, very little over the top of the rootball.
15ml FoxFarm Big Bloom
10ml SledgeHammer
5ml CalMag
1ml DynaGrow ProTekt silicon solution
pH'd to 6.5 forgot to record PPM this time
Applied a light foliar application of CalMag

And the results were very positive!
DSC00370.JPG
DSC00381.JPG
DSC00376.JPG

I also turned OFF the humidifier, turned on the extraction fan to 24hrs on HIGH, left tent door unzipped at the bottom with the closet door open. It's getting warmer (finally) and from here on out I anticipate the environment will be easier to maintain. Soon I'll be dealing with heat, and will benefit from mounting the LED driver to the top of the inside of the tent above the air extraction.


Here's my assessment of the situation- with some assistance from a local resource who reviewed my pictures. The plant was rootbound, and was not getting enough water as a result. I was watering every three days, and that was even with me watering it the day AFTER I felt it needed watering. By the next day it was dry for too long. There was not enough soil to retain any moisture long enough, and my paranoia about over-watering turned into under-watering.
Improving the airflow was likely a contributing factor. During the colder times it's difficult to maintain air temperature and humidity levels with consistent fresh air intake. I let the house temperatures drop pretty radically when I'm not home and during sleeping hours. Those represent a significant portion of the each day. That cold fresh air intake kills the environment without a big old HPS. But I love my LED- and it seems like summer is only a month away.

I still have a long way to go, but I'm glad I'm learning. I think the canopy looks pretty good, have been working at keeping it even and spread out. I got a SCROG net which will go up soon, with plans to install at least two throughout the grow. Outside of that I think the next week or two will be focused on soil moisture levels with few other adjustments. We're going to build strength and health in preparation for FLOWER, flipping the 18th, pushed back from the 12th.
 
mr_c

mr_c

Well-Known Member
@.RootDown - Hey Man, glad things have bounced back and the plant is definitely looking much happier. Your going to do more harm than good with that zip tie keeping the crotch split together because it will not stretch as the girth of the top expands. Branches crack in nature all the time and the plants cope just fine. They create scar tissue and the wound heals. My suggestion is to LST more gradually next time and to get rid of that zip tie. Peace
 
.RootDown

.RootDown

Well-Known Member
Day55 VEG

Scroggers unite!
Added a SCROG net, removed pipe cleaners I used for LST. I was looking for 2X2" squares and the smallest the store had was 3.5X3.5", it'll have to do. I'm already running into issues with branches I'd like to tuck under. I can supplement with my pipe cleaners or let the branches grow taller before tucking.
The net adds a little complexity to the setup, mainly watering. Also I can't lift the pot to see how light it is, but I stopped doing that after the transplant to the 10gal pot anyway. That sucker is heavy, and it's sitting on the floor so lifting strains my back too much.
DSC00410.JPG
DSC00408.JPG

Everything is looking good. Pruned a fair amount of the larger fan leaves yesterday. Today was watering day- no nutrients just SI, CalMag, and SledgeHammer; 2gals until runoff.

I added a 2nd heater, set at 70d with the first at 77d timed with the lights. That will help me achieve lower temperatures when the lights are out.

I've started adding SMALL amounts of dry ice when available. Before I'd just stick the whole cooler at the bottom of the tent but when I got a CO2 monitor I found out how much gas was being emitted (more than the meter could read 9999PPM). Now I place some ice in a small bowl at the bottom of the tent, it raises PPM to about 1800 for a few hours.

FLIP to 12/12 in a couple of days, will monitor for the first signs of flower before I start the counter. I did the same with VEG, today is day55 but it's been 71 days since sprout.
DSC00411.JPG
 
.RootDown

.RootDown

Well-Known Member
Day59 VEG
Day3 FLIP

For the most part everything looks great. The leaves are dark green, hopefully not TOO dark (to indicate excess nitrogen). Three of the leaves have developed some browning on the tips. I noticed it a few days ago- it doesn't seem to be spreading so far. Oddly enough all three of the leaves are on the outer edge of the plant where it's closest to the tent walls. From what I've read so far it could be potassium or zinc deficiency or handling/contact stress. I'm going to wait and see for now, unless someone with more experience offers different advice.

Yesterday was watering day, also gave nutes. I've been watering every three or four days in the ten gallon pot. I'm not running a humidifier and the environment is about 45%Rh 77F during the day, temps drop to 68-70F during the night.
The next watering day (likely Saturday) will be my first flush. I need to so some more reading on flushing- it is 3X the size of the pot? So I need to flush thirty gallons? My saucer can only fit two gallons of water so it's going to take awhile to add/extract two gallons at a time. Getting the temp right isn't a big deal, but I can't store thirty gallons of water for a day to allow the chlorine to dissipate.

I took some close ups of a few bud sites. I can't tell if I'm looking at pistils or not. Are these pre-flowers or just new shoots?

DSC00416.JPG DSC00417.JPG DSC00418.JPG DSC00419.JPG DSC00420.JPG DSC00422.JPG DSC00423.JPG DSC00424.JPG DSC00425.JPG
 
B

Beachwalker

Well-Known Member
Looking good, regarding flushing I can't tell you what's right or wrong but for me the 3x the pot volume is if the plants sick and needs I guess you'd call it an emergency flush

But when I water just to routinely run out salts like I did this morning, let's say I give the plant one gallon of nutrients on a regular basis with no runoff I would use two gallons of plain pH water in my routine mini-flush, hope that helps good luck
.RootDown said:
Day59 VEG
Day3 FLIP

For the most part everything looks great. The leaves are dark green, hopefully not TOO dark (to indicate excess nitrogen). Three of the leaves have developed some browning on the tips. I noticed it a few days ago- it doesn't seem to be spreading so far. Oddly enough all three of the leaves are on the outer edge of the plant where it's closest to the tent walls. From what I've read so far it could be potassium or zinc deficiency or handling/contact stress. I'm going to wait and see for now, unless someone with more experience offers different advice.

Yesterday was watering day, also gave nutes. I've been watering every three or four days in the ten gallon pot. I'm not running a humidifier and the environment is about 45%Rh 77F during the day, temps drop to 68-70F during the night.
The next watering day (likely Saturday) will be my first flush. I need to so some more reading on flushing- it is 3X the size of the pot? So I need to flush thirty gallons? My saucer can only fit two gallons of water so it's going to take awhile to add/extract two gallons at a time. Getting the temp right isn't a big deal, but I can't store thirty gallons of water for a day to allow the chlorine to dissipate.

I took some close ups of a few bud sites. I can't tell if I'm looking at pistils or not. Are these pre-flowers or just new shoots?

View attachment 4303936 View attachment 4303937 View attachment 4303938 View attachment 4303939 View attachment 4303940 View attachment 4303941 View attachment 4303942 View attachment 4303943 View attachment 4303944
Click to expand...
 
.RootDown

.RootDown

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input BeachWalker.
The brown tips are still contained to the three original affected leaves, and they are all rubbing against the tent lining so maybe that's all that is happening.

The FoxFarms nutrient schedule calls for three flushes, the first of which is going to be this weekend.
3X is a lot of water though, should be an interesting process.

In the ten gallon pot I always water two gallons, which gives runoff. Two gallons regardless of whether it's nutrients or just water. I thought you were always supposed to have some runoff.
 
.RootDown

.RootDown

Well-Known Member
Ok I have a potassium deficiency. No pictures right now, will upload later- but found a few more leaves with browning of the leaf tips and one has along the serrated edges as well.
From what I've read and compared to my grow this was likely a result of too much sodium due to the CalMag. Solve one problem and create another it seems.

My soil felt a bit drier than I thought it should be this morning, correlating to additional water usage due to transpiration. Tonight the plan is to flush with a light nutrient solution 30gals.
 
.RootDown

.RootDown

Well-Known Member
Day61 VEG
5th day 12/12

Here's what I believe to be potassium deficiency, again due to a buildup of sodium from the CalMag.

Performed my first flush. I had planned on doing it this weekend anyway, so I'm only a day early.
I gave eight gallons just water, then another eight with SledgeHammer flush (Yucca extract) at 10ml/gal and silica 1.5ml/gal, then eight gallons with nutrients at full strength.
When I say full strength I mean the amount I planned, not what FoxFarms recommended.
This week, as per my pre-planned nutrient schedule is 10ml Big Bloom, 2.5ml Grow Big, 2.5ml Tiger Bloom per gallon, in addition to the sledgehammer and silica. I don't think I need any CalMag for a bit.
There was no way for me to store that much water for 24hrs for de-gassing the clorine, but at least I was able to regulate temperature.

Extracting the runoff was a pain. I have a fluid extractor https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SR7TC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 that holds 2.5gals but it was a lot of manual labor. I have a huge shop vac but the hose doesn't fit in the saucer and also I really don't want to operate it in the house, I use it in the garage and outside and don't want to risk contaminating the environment. The extractor worked well enough I guess.



DSC00426.JPG DSC00430.JPG

After I was done (several hours, why do I choose hobbies that require so much work?) I tucked a bunch of branches under the net and added dry ice near the air intake.
 
.RootDown

.RootDown

Well-Known Member
Day1 FLOWER

Pistils are showing. No further browning of leaf tips, growth has picked back up. The flush was successful.

Also, I think I'm pretty much done tucking. I have another row of squares on the right side of the tent I can fill, but beyond that I'm going to let her ride. Maybe this isn't the best scrog, she is unruly as hell. I will probably still add a 2nd tier net for support.

The canopy is 18" from the light, registering about 600umoles.
Night RH is a bit high, 58% at 74F. I don't have a dehumidifier.


DSC00435.JPG DSC00436.JPG DSC00437.JPG DSC00439.JPG
 
B

Beachwalker

Well-Known Member
.RootDown said:
Thanks for the input BeachWalker.
The brown tips are still contained to the three original affected leaves, and they are all rubbing against the tent lining so maybe that's all that is happening.

The FoxFarms nutrient schedule calls for three flushes, the first of which is going to be this weekend.
3X is a lot of water though, should be an interesting process.

In the ten gallon pot I always water two gallons, which gives runoff. Two gallons regardless of whether it's nutrients or just water. I thought you were always supposed to have some runoff.
Click to expand...
They're looking good! ..not sure where that always having runoff thing is from but kind of think it came from cocoa growing? I water my flowering plants three or four times in a row with nutrients with no runoff and then the next time I flush twice the amount of plain pH water through, been doing this for years with no problem, not saying that's necessarily the right way just saying that's how I do it cuz I'm getting too old to be crawling around sopping up water all the time.
 
.RootDown

.RootDown

Well-Known Member
New
Day13 Flower

Got some light bleaching. They stretched into the light and I was experimenting with letting them have it. Raised fixture back to 18" immediately before these pictures.
DSC00459.JPG DSC00461.JPG DSC00469.JPG DSC00468.JPG DSC00467.JPG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top