My Friend the Car Dealer Says...

The other 30% would be right behind it, and NO its not savings if it cost us billions of dollars.

Sometimes in order to save money, you first have to SPEND IT.

Say I buy a supersized jar of peanut butter that's 10x larger than a normal jar. It costs 6x as much as a normal jar, but it will last me ten times longer than a normal jar. I had to spend 6x the money I normally would have for the small jar - instead of spending 10x the cost to buy 10 normal sized jars.

1 jar = $1 10 jars = $10

jumbo jar = $6

So I'm actually saving $4, over time, by buying the larger jar even though I had to shell out $6 at once.

Anyway, the CARS program was basically a stimulus for the auto industry. The main point was not to save money on gas, but to stimulate the dealerships by bringing in a lot of sales in a relatively short period of time.

That's nonsense when the money goes to public programs whose only data shows it all gets pissed away.

Try again.

doobnVA said:

Sometimes in order to save money, you first have to SPEND IT.

Say I buy a supersized jar of peanut butter that's 10x larger than a normal jar. It costs 6x as much as a normal jar, but it will last me ten times longer than a normal jar. I had to spend 6x the money I normally would have for the small jar - instead of spending 10x the cost to buy 10 normal sized jars.

1 jar = $1 10 jars = $10

jumbo jar = $6

So I'm actually saving $4, over time, by buying the larger jar even though I had to shell out $6 at once.

Anyway, the CARS program was basically a stimulus for the auto industry. The main point was not to save money on gas, but to stimulate the dealerships by bringing in a lot of sales in a relatively short period of time.

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wow, its all so clear now.

he's smart... c?

redivider said:

no i don't work for the government, i am not a member of academia, yet...

as for the whole UAW and all that nonsense, leave the conspiracy theories at home, let's talk facts...

And if you don't think Obama is a Marxist all you have to do is look at the people he has surrounded himself with nearly his entire career. Radical activists, revolutionaries and die hard socialists.

not too long ago there was a lil guy called McArthy, that started calling everyone communists because of the people they hung out with, even if none of those people had any sort of connection to communism, it was just fear-mongering... this mentality has already proved to to be not only flawed, but extremely ignorant. be careful what you say, you don't want to seem ignorant, do you?

as for free markets and supply-demand economics, don't forget that there has always been government investment in private industry to spur economy, from WWII, to the NEW DEAL, government investment in private industry helps the economy, this is not something that was found out recently.

so stop with the socialist manifesto, marxist agenda, and communist take-over mentality. it's antiquated and erroneous.

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Red, Their is a big difference between government investment in the economy and government take over of a public corporation like GM. GM should of been forced into chapter 11 and had their union contracts broken. The cash that was given to them should of only been used to bolster their pension funds so that the workers, active or retired would not loose what they had worked for. After about a year or so, GM would of reamerged lean and mean and ready to compete in the open market place. Their legacey costs would have finally peaked and would start to go down as the older retirees started to pass away. But Obama thought GM was "too big to fail"
That is such BS. Going into chapter 11 and restructering is not failing. Just look at united air lines. But instead GM is now owned by not only the US and Canadian government but also by who? ((Drum roll please)) the UAW. The same union that has crippled this once worldwide symbol of american capitolism.
This is hardly what I would call "government investment in private industry to spur the economy" And as for the "new deal" put out by FDR, Why do you think a recession and market correction turned into a full blown depression which lasted for 11 years?That is what happens when you tax businesses so you can spend it on social programs instead of lowering corporate tax rates so they can hire people. Did you know that FDR raised the top marginal income tax rate to 79% during the great depression ! These were the people that created jobs and industry in the country. No wonder the economy spiraled downwards.

My friend you can not tax your way to prosperity. Obama needs to cut corporate taxes, income taxes for everyone, estate taxes,payroll taxes and cap gains taxes. Then do some serious fat trimming from the federal budget. That is how we will survive this recession. Not by giving a select few people 4k to scrap their old car so they can go buy a new Toyota. But of course the far left, the progressives, the UAW and the SEIU and people like you would have a hissy fit.

And as far as Obama being a far left progressive and Marxist sympathiser, well you only need to keep your ears and eyes open and maybe do a little reading on his career and the statements he has made in the past.
Do your own homework.

Damn, I hit the wrong button and it posted before I could proof read it and spell check it. I guess i am ignorant.

FreeLeaf said:

Damn, I hit the wrong button and it posted before I could proof read it and spell check it. I guess i am ignorant.

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Don't worry, you're not in looney left land on this thread. Most judge by content, not punctuation. The clear thinkers anyway.

Your post was dead on correct.

doobnVA said:

Sometimes in order to save money, you first have to SPEND IT.

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WRONG!! The only way you can save money is by NOT spending it. Saving money means that you have more money than before, I guarantee if you buy a $1,000,0000 huge jar of peanut butter and only spend $10 on it, you now have $10 less to spend on anything else. The $10 is not a reduction in expenditure or cost. Doob you need to get out of that "Shopping Sale" mode, My GF also exclaims how much money she saved when those new jeans went on sale. I scold her and say she has saved nothing, but instead has actually spent. She doesn't care, she still sees it as saving money.

If you save money, you will have more each time you save, not less.

Ah yes the imigrant song

You might be right about the peanut butter but you are dead wrong about the cars. The Cash for clunkers cost about 3 BILLION US tax dollars. Since our country is already running a huge deficict. That means we have to finance the 3 Billion. Since the first and only President to balance the federal budget was Andrew jackson I have the feeling we will be paying interest on that 3 Billion for years to come. This thing will cost over a trillion dollars by the time it is over if ever. Oh and by the way Their was a sizeable chunk payed out to foreign owned car companys. So, what do we get in turn? 700,000 new cars sold at the expense of the tax payer. ( roughly only 50% of the people in the US pay taxes) I am quite sure all 700,000 cars traded in were by people who pay taxes. (yea right) Income redistribution masked under the heading of "lets all get green and take them cars off the road" I am sure the UAW had a HUGE voice in making this piece of legislation pass since the directly profit from it. Now shall we talk about the industrys that were hurt? Mechanics that work on clunkers? How about small stores that sell used tires? How about part stores that keep them clunkers on the road? (oh yea their not partially owned by the UAW so they don't count.)

NoDrama said:

WRONG!! The only way you can save money is by NOT spending it. Saving money means that you have more money than before, I guarantee if you buy a $1,000,0000 huge jar of peanut butter and only spend $10 on it, you now have $10 less to spend on anything else. The $10 is not a reduction in expenditure or cost. Doob you need to get out of that "Shopping Sale" mode, My GF also exclaims how much money she saved when those new jeans went on sale. I scold her and say she has saved nothing, but instead has actually spent. She doesn't care, she still sees it as saving money.

If you save money, you will have more each time you save, not less.

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actually, you are WRONG. i just showed you how you can generate money from spending money.

doobnVA said:

I agree. They were perfectly good vehicles with years of use left on them. So, they are "rated" at less MPG - big deal! Doesn't mean you throw them away. Talk about wasteful. Not to mention that those 700,000 crushed vehicles have to go somewhere. They don't just disappear. Instead of being driven by people who could have benefited from their use, they're sitting in a landfill or junkyard somewhere.

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they are not in a land fill. they were recycled. melted down for the metal. to make new cars, toasters ect.

Red doesn't have a clue does he?.....

Of course all the data in the real world says he's wrong and he cannot point to any successful Keysnian economically based society or program, because there AREN'T any.

It's an interesting concept but it only works on paper, which is where it will stay if the USA has any brains left at all.

What's the unemployment rate again? What's the GDP? Payroll levels going up or DOWN?

Keysnian economics is drivel...... it simply doesn't work.

NoDrama said:

WRONG!! The only way you can save money is by NOT spending it. Saving money means that you have more money than before, I guarantee if you buy a $1,000,0000 huge jar of peanut butter and only spend $10 on it, you now have $10 less to spend on anything else. The $10 is not a reduction in expenditure or cost. Doob you need to get out of that "Shopping Sale" mode, My GF also exclaims how much money she saved when those new jeans went on sale. I scold her and say she has saved nothing, but instead has actually spent. She doesn't care, she still sees it as saving money.

If you save money, you will have more each time you save, not less.

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HaHa ... Everytime I go to the market and use my "membership" card, the checker tells me how much money I've saved. I always retort with: "Hey great, please give me the money I've saved here so I can go put it into the bank!"

Yet, the current administration is that stupid......

I like your signature CJ. I might just have to borrow it from ya

If I purchase something I was going to buy anyway, at a reduced price, how is that NOT saving money?

I'm not even speaking in terms of the cash for clunkers program, just in general.

Do you have more money left over after you purchase the car? If not then its not saving. You didn't save anything, you just spent less. Stereotypical female attitude.

NoDrama said:

Do you have more money left over after you purchase the car? If not then its not saving. You didn't save anything, you just spent less. Stereotypical female attitude.

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You must have missed the part where I said "I'm not speaking in terms of cash for clunkers, just in general."

"Stereotypical female attitude"??

Dude, don't come at me like I'm some irresponsible airhead with a credit card. I've raised 2 kids, BY MYSELF, on less than $15,000 a year. I think I know how to stretch a buck.