My pathetic organic grow

Richard Drysift said:

They don't look as bad as you think. Looks like they've been transplanted since your last thread. Droopyness is almost always from either under or overwatering. Many times if they have been in too small container for too long you almost have to overwater just to keep them hydrated. Transplanting was the first right step you have made; give them some more time for the roots to begin filling out before doing anything too drastic.

Teas can help maintain microbial activity but don't expect the plants to react immediately. Teas don't feed they just maintain healthy soil. Kelp is great in a tea because it's full of probiotics and has a meager npk value but nothing is as active as fresh ewc. So yes a tea with worm castings and kelp would help but it's not going to be a total game changer. Simply top dressing with kelp, ewc, and some fish bone meal would do the same thing as a tea just maybe not as quickly.
Yes wow myco. That is what I'm talking about. I use myko xtreme brand myself but it's exactly the same shit. You just sprinkle that stuff in the hole at each transplant and place the root ball right on top. That will make a difference in how your plants absorb what is in the soil.
Honestly until you recycle and amend your mix a few times your mix won't reach supernatural status. Once it does you'll have no more problems like this. Takes a few grow cycles to get your mix there but once it is you'll know it.

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Thank you again for the thorough reply!

Yeah im starting to think im overthinking this a bit. I should just wait to how they react to the transplant in the uppotting with rain water from now on.

Yeah they may have been experiencing over watering for a little bit there but my room temp is 81f with 50% humidity so these pots dry out fast. Pot is roughly 1/3 lighter then it was a day ago these girls were praying when I woke up.

I think your right about not enough nutrition/compost matter down below.

I bought myself some bud juice on amazon (if you could maybe check this out) https://www.budjuice.com/budjuice-100-advanced-liquid-organic-fertilizer-and-nutrients-500ml-.html

I believe its organic fertilizer made from fish poop

I also believe its OMRI certified. Do you think this would cause any harm to my grow if I use in a light dose?

Growitpondifarm said:

Were these plants just up potted?

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yeah two days ago

Sunbiz1 said:

That well water is your most likely culprit.
A PH of 8.5 is not good, you should be watering more than once/week in those fabric containers.
Even when I transplant larger, it doesn't take a week for them to be needing a second watering.
Also, you didn't mention lighting being used?.

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My exact thoughts right now. I was watering every day or every two days before I transplanted two days ago.

Meizhi 1200 (550 true watts)

HobbyGrowArtist said:

organic is hard to pull off. lots of factors to consider, soil microbiome and soil composition on top of what a plant actually needs. i never really grew organic crop. is this the kind of organic that is pure compost and nothing as far as nutrients?

plants look fine, nothing major, usually the stock isnt purple but god knows these days with genetics. anything major comes up dont be scared throwing some USP grade nutes on them.

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yes but keep in mind these plants were
put into soil on november 24th and the one is only
5 nodes high.....

madvillian420 said:

worm casting tea or topdressing is always good, as well as kelp. Ive also been using dr. earth all purposes

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this is my next step for this weekend, or bud juice

OrganicBudz said:

Hey man. Shit happens lol. They just look overwatered. alao rain water has very little tds you're better off using dechlorinated tap (depending on location) or spring water since you're running organic. Let the soil dry out before next watering

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If I have a water softener and filter with ppms that come out at 230 is this water okay to use? Will the salt in the water from the softener be harmful to the microbes in the soil? Also why would I want TDS in my starting watering?

I was thinking of mixing rainwater and well water (hard water) to add a bit of a buffer if that makes sense.

dwig said:

yeah two days ago

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I’ll bet anything they perk up in another couple days. I bet they had been root bound and it takes a week it seems for them to really get back on track. Make sure they’re not sitting on a cold floor, in the winter I put a heat Matt under my pots/bed. Makes a huge difference, also Rainwater is the best option I believe. Never had any issues using strictly rain water. I wouldn’t give them anything in terms of nutrients. Buy some good compost and lay a couple inches down after the plants get comfortable.

I’m not familiar with the brand of pottting soil your using but I reccomend everyone gets a soil savvy test and tests there soil. It’s the only way to have a legitimate handle on what’s going on in your soil. Best 30$ you can spend

Growitpondifarm said:

I’ll bet anything they perk up in another couple days. I bet they had been root bound and it takes a week it seems for them to really get back on track. Make sure they’re not sitting on a cold floor, in the winter I put a heat Matt under my pots/bed. Makes a huge difference, also Rainwater is the best option I believe. Never had any issues using strictly rain water. I wouldn’t give them anything in terms of nutrients. Buy some good compost and lay a couple inches down after the plants get comfortable.

I’m not familiar with the brand of pottting soil your using but I reccomend everyone gets a soil savvy test and tests there soil. It’s the only way to have a legitimate handle on what’s going on in your soil. Best 30$ you can spend

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they weren’t root bound at all, one of the plants was actually difficult to transplant cause lots of the soil was falling off and I didnt want to damage the roots... it did split a little in the root system unfortunately, only on the one.

They weren’t on a cold floor before but they are now and have been for a couple days. I dont have anything to big enough to put under 7gallon pots.... Im heading to town right now so ill see if I can grab something there.

I’ll be starting with a different brand of soil next grow and ill do a bit more research.

apologies for

dwig said:

they weren’t root bound at all, one of the plants was actually difficult to transplant cause lots of the soil was falling off and I didnt want to damage the roots... it did split a little in the root system unfortunately, only on the one.

They weren’t on a cold floor before but they are now and have been for a couple days. I dont have anything to big enough to put under 7gallon pots.... Im heading to town right now so ill see if I can grab something there.

I’ll be starting with a different brand of soil next grow and ill do a bit more research.

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Apologies for the rootbound assumption. Sounds Like the plants didn’t like the soil and or there were watering issues. If it were me I would order a soil savvy test and get your soil tested ASAP so you’re not in the dark. I haven’t had good luck with many premixed fancy Potting soils. The test will tell you your issues and then you can make a more scientific plan of action. Until then you’re gonna get a million different opinions(such as mine) many of which aren’t based in any sort of reality. Good luck man

dwig said:

Thank you again for the thorough reply!

Yeah im starting to think im overthinking this a bit. I should just wait to how they react to the transplant in the uppotting with rain water from now on.

Yeah they may have been experiencing over watering for a little bit there but my room temp is 81f with 50% humidity so these pots dry out fast. Pot is roughly 1/3 lighter then it was a day ago these girls were praying when I woke up.

I think your right about not enough nutrition/compost matter down below.

I bought myself some bud juice on amazon (if you could maybe check this out) https://www.budjuice.com/budjuice-100-advanced-liquid-organic-fertilizer-and-nutrients-500ml-.html

I believe its organic fertilizer made from fish poop

I also believe its OMRI certified. Do you think this would cause any harm to my grow if I use in a light dose?

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Probably not but it doesn't even give you an npk value listed on the bottle; not OMRI. You are better off imo with something like neptunes harvest which I know for sure is safe even at fairly high doses. Even a generic brand liquid fish w/ seaweed like maxicrop is good if has nice low numbers like 1-2-1 or whatever. As a general rule in living soil grows if you have to give a soluble fertilizer try to find something with npk values less than 5.
Unlike bottled "organic nutrient" vendors would like you to think, you don't need as much npk as they wish you would buy. Like I said microbial activity is more important than npk values. Dry amendments given during soil recycles after each run work vastly better and for much longer in your mix than soluble liquids. They will not work though unless you provide a source of microbial activity in the form of compost. This is why the entire nutrient industry exists; its actually hard to keep soil highly active inside a small container over the long term and impossible without a form of compost. You have to keep adding back decomposing organic material to keep your mix going strong, or alternatively provide it in a soluble form.
Most of my mix is just homemade worm castings and perlite. Started out with FFOF soil and kept on amending it. At each recycle I add more ewc, chicken manure, and crushed oyster shell; Dolomite lime and garden gypsum once or twice a year. Soil just gets better and better with age. If plants begin to look pale and I can't transplant them I just give them neptunes harvest and/or top dress with ewc as needed. Having a worm factory makes things super easy and worry free; it's the compost that drives every thing else. It's like magic.. the worm leacheate that comes off the bottom makes them pray to me in homage.

Just to touch on what Richard Drysift said, compost, worm castings and bacteria and fungus are very important. You need those good microbes to break down the amendments in your soil, to make nutrients available to your plants and to stabilise your dirt.

Without the bacteria and mycos the stuff in your soil can just "sit" there, not usable or sometimes in a "hot" super readily available state that burn your roots and messes up your plants.

You mentioned your plant Not being root bound or having weak roots even after weeks in small pots. In my experience this happens when my soil is too "hot" or too loaded with nutrients. The roots just won't grow vigorously into the dirt. I would definitely try some compost/work casting tea, or topdressing with compost/ewc to try to luck up your microbes to breakdown and stabilize your soil. Then plants can live in there happily.

For next time, instead of jumping to a new brand of soil you might consider cutting your soil with some more peat moss or perlite to cut it or "water it down". And also adding more compost or EWC or both to your soil to get more microbes working in there. I know you mentioned using em-1 or whatever, but a few tablespoons of some concentrate can't match what a few gallons of compost worked into the soil can do.

The redish stems indicate a deficiency of a certain nutrient, even though you bumped the temperature up, maybe the pH of your tap water is not allowing that nutrient uptake.

Also, in these pot the moisture of the pots has to be constantly monitored, or dry spots can develop and when you water it won’t get wet in certain spots. I would flush with some proper soil pH’ed water, and even let the containers soak in the water for 8 minutes.

Right before you give up and start over, pull a plant out and look at the roots, how deep did they really go? Or were they really small? I once had a 6 month old plant that was the same size as yours, the roots never made it 4 inches down in a 7g fabric pot.

Growitpondifarm said:

apologies for

Apologies for the rootbound assumption. Sounds Like the plants didn’t like the soil and or there were watering issues. If it were me I would order a soil savvy test and get your soil tested ASAP so you’re not in the dark. I haven’t had good luck with many premixed fancy Potting soils. The test will tell you your issues and then you can make a more scientific plan of action. Until then you’re gonna get a million different opinions(such as mine) many of which aren’t based in any sort of reality. Good luck man

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Sorry I wasn’t trying to come off as rude, I didn’t take it as you assumed that but just as a possibility. I heard above that exact test kit in a podcast i’ve been listening too so i think thats a purchase ill make today. Appreciate the input.

dwig said:

Yeah its just been rough every grow at the start. I swicted to organics cause I was fed up with all the bottled nutes and wated something simpler lol. They were drying out every one-two days before in 2 gallons pots. Soil was drying out a little to fast for the microbs before. Transplanted them into damp soil. This photo is before lights on. 4/6 of them are praying right now

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If you're worried about microbes dying off as the soil dries maybe try a microbe product like

dwig said:

this is my next step for this weekend, or bud juice

If I have a water softener and filter with ppms that come out at 230 is this water okay to use? Will the salt in the water from the softener be harmful to the microbes in the soil? Also why would I want TDS in my starting watering?

I was thinking of mixing rainwater and well water (hard water) to add a bit of a buffer if that makes sense.

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Alright well if u have a softener dont use it youll have salt buildup. Able to use spring water? Or bypass the water softener

SnidleyBluntash said:

The redish stems indicate a deficiency of a certain nutrient, even though you bumped the temperature up, maybe the pH of your tap water is not allowing that nutrient uptake.

Also, in these pot the moisture of the pots has to be constantly monitored, or dry spots can develop and when you water it won’t get wet in certain spots. I would flush with some proper soil pH’ed water, and even let the containers soak in the water for 8 minutes.

Right before you give up and start over, pull a plant out and look at the roots, how deep did they really go? Or were they really small? I once had a 6 month old plant that was the same size as yours, the roots never made it 4 inches down in a 7g fabric pot.

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Ahh so thats what the red stems means. Nutrient deficiency because of wrong ph. So
it indicates both.

I transplanted two days ago from 2 gallon too 7 gallons with properly watered ph’d soil this time. I’ll see if that does enough before I try and flush.

On one of the fabric pots a small root came out the very bottom of the 2 gallons but there wasnt a whole lots of roots. I’ll transplant the last 2 smaller ones tonight and take a look then. I only transplanted 4 of them the other day

dwig said:

Sorry I wasn’t trying to come off as rude, I didn’t take it as you assumed that but just as a possibility. I heard above that exact test kit in a podcast i’ve been listening too so i think thats a purchase ill make today. Appreciate the input.

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No need to apologize. The test is super helpful , I test my mix after every run. Let’s me know what I need to amend with before next go around. Kind of sucks that you even need to test a premade soil as you would think a company specializing in potting soil would have done testing and proper balancing of the soil prior to sale but that is often not the case. Turnaround on that soil test is usually pretty quick. If it was me I would just water as needed and hang tight until you get results. Good luck man

OrganicBudz said:

If you're worried about microbes dying off as the soil dries maybe try a microbe product like

Alright well if u have a softener dont use it youll have salt buildup. Able to use speing water?

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what was that product you were going to suggest?

Im currently using rain water and I mix it with a little bit of well/hard water to work as a ph up and buffer.

dwig said:

what was that product you were going to suggest?

Im currently using rain water and I mix it with a little bit of well/hard water to work as a ph up and buffer.

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Yeah idk what happened there lol. Npk Raw microbes theres one for veg and one for flower.

HobbyGrowArtist said:

just because im a new member? i was on this site nearly a decade ago. back then i never had any fancy gear, nothing to check soil ph. corrected all my problems with common sense, flush and give new nutes. kinda sad to see a guy asking whats wrong with his plants when there is clearly nothing wrong with them.

this guy had problems.. id give that poor guy some calcium. the curling may be something else. and some magnesium to be on safe side. dolomite for the win

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Not because you're new. I said that because you are saying organics is hard to pull off, but yet you have never grown organically. If you have no experience growing organically, don't give advice. That's what I'm saying. Growing organically is not hard at all.

dwig said:

Ahh so thats what the red stems means. Nutrient deficiency because of wrong ph. So
it indicates both

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If you google ‘nutrient absorption cannabis ph’ you can see a chart with the nutrients and how they get absorbed at different pH, look at the higher numbers around 8.x like your water is.

dwig said:

this is my next step for this weekend, or bud juice

If I have a water softener and filter with ppms that come out at 230 is this water okay to use? Will the salt in the water from the softener be harmful to the microbes in the soil? Also why would I want TDS in my starting watering?

I was thinking of mixing rainwater and well water (hard water) to add a bit of a buffer if that makes sense.

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You don't want to feed with softened water. Get water from part of the house that isn't softened even if it's from an outside spigot. Then check the ph of the non softened water.

SnidleyBluntash said:

If you google ‘nutrient absorption cannabis ph’ you can see a chart with the nutrients and how they get absorbed at different pH, look at the higher numbers around 8.x like your water is.

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That's what I was trying to say, ph is important.