New Led Or Not ?
- Thread starter maxpesh
- Start date
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Thanks Eraser for pointing out that his panels ARE using all chinese diodes(basically confirmed now that he removed the Cree tags)......But this brings up the issue: that many of us growers don't know(me included if I didn't follow spuzz and eraser)....we can't expect high quality diodes at the prices their selling them for.
I paid 309.00(w shipping) dollars for a panel drawing 160w(?maybe?),and now that I've checked out chip suppliers(briefly contemplated the DIY thing) their is no way any of the top selling panels contain good quality diodes.....
obviously their are a few exceptions from my researching panels(like procryon 100watt/all cree xpe..$600) and you will pay out the ass for it....
Oh I still haven't been credited back my money from Ben
..........Is the war not over???
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
Thanks Eraser for pointing out that his panels ARE using all chinese diodes(basically confirmed now that he removed the Cree tags)......But this brings up the issue: that many of us growers don't know(me included if I didn't follow spuzz and eraser)....we can't expect high quality diodes at the prices their selling them for.
I paid 309.00(w shipping) dollars for a panel drawing 160w(?maybe?),and now that I've checked out chip suppliers(briefly contemplated the DIY thing) their is no way any of the top selling panels contain good quality diodes.....
obviously their are a few exceptions from my researching panels(like procryon 100watt/all cree xpe..$600) and you will pay out the ass for it....
Oh I still haven't been credited back my money from Ben
You should check out this thread.. basically sums up Crees vs ChinaCraps.
You should check out the journal buddy has going with his basil 3/4 the way down the page.. looks pretty damn healthy, and the soil seems to be drying up quick enough.. at least it "looks" like they're drinking fast enough.
He does have his XPE's cranked a bit high though...
That's the absolute maximums you'd ever run a Cree XPE.. that's lunacy...
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
Oh I still haven't been credited back my money from Ben
PayPal? It took 5 days for PayPal to give me the money that the seller had already returned in 24 hours. Sits in PP's bank account earning daily interest.. with millions of other people's money.
That's what it "could" be anyways.........
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Yeah that(paypal) and he emailed me back that he wants to inspect the panel "thoroughly" to see if it's "as new" condition before crediting me back All my money....I may have underestimated Ben's business savviness...........PayPal? It took 5 days for PayPal to give me the money that the seller had already returned in 24 hours. Sits in PP's bank account earning daily interest.. with millions of other people's money.
That's what it "could" be anyways.........
I give him two days before the I use the BBB in our communications...........
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
Check out these modules. http://www.theledstore.com.au/product_p/ls0056.htm
There was a sales man at the hydro store with these already in a retail system with 36 of these diodes. http://www.ftelighting.com. The retail was I think at $1,600.00.
If you go to Mouser. http://www.mouser.com/knowledge/leds/illumitexhorticulture/ the modules are about $11.00 a piece.
1.7W 8.5μmol/s each. I'm thinking 50 of these over a 3 X 3 table.
There was a sales man at the hydro store with these already in a retail system with 36 of these diodes. http://www.ftelighting.com. The retail was I think at $1,600.00.
If you go to Mouser. http://www.mouser.com/knowledge/leds/illumitexhorticulture/ the modules are about $11.00 a piece.
1.7W 8.5μmol/s each. I'm thinking 50 of these over a 3 X 3 table.
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
600mA @ 10v each, 55° viewing angle, and they list in micromole instead of lumen.. ??
You'd be better off getting the grow star packages he has.
blacktourmaline
Member
Where can i find Osram Golden Dragon plus Hyper Red 660nm mounted on a star? Also Cree XR-E's on a star? saw them on cutter but didn't see mounted on star.
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
Forgot the Crees...
The XP-E are actually stronger than the XR-E, and more colour available. All the XR-E and XP-E mounted on stars, are under the "Cree Leds premounted on Printed Circuit Boards" section...
http://www.cutter.com.au/categories.php?cat=Cree+LEDS
Here's the XP-x's on 20mm stars...
http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Leds+on+20mm+Star+PCB&pg=2
Near the bottom of that page.
You should also grab the binning and labeling pdf.. explains which bin is top bin, then you know what to choose when selecting.
http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXP_B&L.pdf
blacktourmaline
Member
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
If they're 500-550mW @ 350mA, then they're stronger than the XP-E's, and they're cheaper. Power wise.. the H bin is the same, but the other bins are lower in voltage.
http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Cree+XTE
I've never seen these before..........
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
Actually.. they're the same price.. that page was just diodes, this page is mounted on stars.. bottom of page
http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Leds+on+20mm+Star+PCB&pg=3
And rapidled sells lenses for them...
http://www.rapidled.com/xp-e-xt-e-lenses/
LedLink's XP-E lenses "might" fit as well.. just need to verify with customer service
http://www.ledlink-optics.com/
http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Leds+on+20mm+Star+PCB&pg=3
And rapidled sells lenses for them...
http://www.rapidled.com/xp-e-xt-e-lenses/
LedLink's XP-E lenses "might" fit as well.. just need to verify with customer service
http://www.ledlink-optics.com/
blacktourmaline
Member
Yeh they seem pretty nice especially if they use less voltage and produce more lm. Also i dig the new tech with the diode shape, did you see the spectrum output it looks pretty cool and i believe this could be very beneficial for the future of leds. But honestly you have to be careful with two much blue lumens in a light for LEDs. They are a major contributor to leaf Bleaching. I just had a new customized blue veg light manufactured and man did it bleach bad(when it is close to plants, but fine when its further away)because of all the blue in it, I recommend not going more than fifty percent blue for veg, and 20% blues for flowering LEDs. Also i have been having a hell of a time with 60 degrees lens, for anyone wondering don't mix 60's and 90 degree lens. the sixties create hot spots and bleach even over two feet away. 90s are a great all around for flower (but you have to keep it further away than 120s). 120 degrees for veg always.. White light doesn t seem to bleach as much....? Can't quite explain it but there must be to much photon absortion for blues which kinda makes sense when you look and the absorbtion rate of blues on the PAR plant graphs makes sense you would want to balance the absorption rate out.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQSd8nnC-FpV9rsGbRJ52g8bsD59_oPjHpnh-XuQ5dpBTAzq-Gg
They also have White XL-m's Cutter Electronics
Also I'll be posting some pictures of the LEDs i get manufactured in the LED tech forum (link below)
They have a 18-19 band spectrum
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQSd8nnC-FpV9rsGbRJ52g8bsD59_oPjHpnh-XuQ5dpBTAzq-Gg
They also have White XL-m's Cutter Electronics
Also I'll be posting some pictures of the LEDs i get manufactured in the LED tech forum (link below)
They have a 18-19 band spectrum
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
I'm not too sure it's the wavelength causing the bleaching.. same thing happens with HPS in an air-cooled hood if too close. And HPS has even less blue than the LEDs. It's the intensity caused by the lenses.. they "magnify" the light output, so only makes sense it would concentrate the energy it outputs as well.
I'm guessing you're referring to XM-L's.. not XL-M's
. I'm not too big on multichip diodes... more heat on same small space.
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
By the way.. thanks for sharing your experience with lenses.. I think I'm going to skip 'em. I originally planned to go without, as that's how many of the Cree or Osram gardens are out there (ledgrow.eu, knna, etc...). The XPE/G's are 140° viewing angle.. that's got a pretty good spread as it is already, and still has a high lumen output within that 140° beam. Even an 80° lens from LedLink would intensify at least 1.8x. 60° can intensify 3.2x...
http://www.ledlink-optics.com/ProductsDefault.aspx?ID=82682FB869D5425B81A7DAC6EC68A58B
So... if you have to raise the damn fixture by 2' as a result of adding lenses... why the hell should I spend $300+ on lenses? I'm better off just leaving them at 140°, and keep the panel within 6"-12" above the canopy. I'd get a much better mixture of the wavelengths. Plus I'm planning a step-style perpetual cab.. the fixture is going to be the roof of the grow chamber, with the actual space being 36" x 18" x 36" high. Actual cab will be 48" x 24" x 72" high.. with insulated/soundproofed compartments for electrical, hydro, exhaust, carbon filter, etc...
http://www.ledlink-optics.com/ProductsDefault.aspx?ID=82682FB869D5425B81A7DAC6EC68A58B
So... if you have to raise the damn fixture by 2' as a result of adding lenses... why the hell should I spend $300+ on lenses? I'm better off just leaving them at 140°, and keep the panel within 6"-12" above the canopy. I'd get a much better mixture of the wavelengths. Plus I'm planning a step-style perpetual cab.. the fixture is going to be the roof of the grow chamber, with the actual space being 36" x 18" x 36" high. Actual cab will be 48" x 24" x 72" high.. with insulated/soundproofed compartments for electrical, hydro, exhaust, carbon filter, etc...
blacktourmaline
Member
So... if you have to raise the damn fixture by 2' as a result of adding lenses... why the hell should I spend $300+ on lenses? I'm better off just leaving them at 140°, and keep the panel within 6"-12" above the canopy. I'd get a much better mixture of the wavelengths. Plus I'm planning a step-style perpetual cab.. the fixture is going to be the roof of the grow chamber, with the actual space being 36" x 18" x 36" high. Actual cab will be 48" x 24" x 72" high.. with insulated/soundproofed compartments for electrical, hydro, exhaust, carbon filter, etc...[/QUOTE]
Agree with you, i have used 60, 90, and 120 degree lenses. And by far 120s do the best because you can get it closer. but 90s would be good for tall grows with multiple lighting. the only bad thing about 120s is the spread is so wide it literally can go past 7x7ft, i wonder if using a high quality reflector off the side of the light fixture would be a better bet to concentrate at least some of light into a smaller 4x4 or something just like HID.
did some talking on it in the LED tech forum
My observation are, correct me if im wrong.
"the best height for 3w diodes is about 1ft-1.5" I've noticed closer than ft stunts bud development and they kinda do this phat short chunky stubby tops things but still put on weight just looks better to have bigger longer colas so i keep LEDs at optimal 18" away... but this is with one 288 chp 580w, Epistar LED with 3 watt diodes 2 volts a chip, 630ma.
For 90 degree diodes and 3w chips, 1.5-2ft is great or they will bleach.. kinda defeats the point of leds if you have to move it further away, but not sure if it evens out with higher lm amount for 90 degree lens? probably just balances out.
Intesity of the led or "Brightness" or "Penetration" is over looked at in the LED world, you can only supply a certain amount of Brightness (so to say, or photons) to a plant, this is why you can't put a light to close to a plant or it will bleach. I believe that it comes down to the amount of Lumens in a square ft. so having enough chips to provide the say 10,000 lumens in a square ft. at a certain amount a ft away is the trick, and to accomplish this we need diodes that are
1. High Quality Lm output &
2. Alot of them in a certain space to provide the Lm per square ft at a reasonable distance
As of now 3w watt LEDs Have the Brightness or Penetration , at pretty good levels for most type of growing. Yeh maybe 10w diodes would be nice.. but any brighter LED diodes we would have to space further away from the plants because of the intensity.
So more LEDs in the UNIT per Sq ft is what we want...so if we are trying to cover 4x4ft we need to make sure we keep the Lumens a Square ft high which is best accomplished by multiple LED units.
Thoughts anyone? this theory may be totally wrong....."
Agree with you, i have used 60, 90, and 120 degree lenses. And by far 120s do the best because you can get it closer. but 90s would be good for tall grows with multiple lighting. the only bad thing about 120s is the spread is so wide it literally can go past 7x7ft, i wonder if using a high quality reflector off the side of the light fixture would be a better bet to concentrate at least some of light into a smaller 4x4 or something just like HID.
did some talking on it in the LED tech forum
My observation are, correct me if im wrong.
"the best height for 3w diodes is about 1ft-1.5" I've noticed closer than ft stunts bud development and they kinda do this phat short chunky stubby tops things but still put on weight just looks better to have bigger longer colas so i keep LEDs at optimal 18" away... but this is with one 288 chp 580w, Epistar LED with 3 watt diodes 2 volts a chip, 630ma.
For 90 degree diodes and 3w chips, 1.5-2ft is great or they will bleach.. kinda defeats the point of leds if you have to move it further away, but not sure if it evens out with higher lm amount for 90 degree lens? probably just balances out.
Intesity of the led or "Brightness" or "Penetration" is over looked at in the LED world, you can only supply a certain amount of Brightness (so to say, or photons) to a plant, this is why you can't put a light to close to a plant or it will bleach. I believe that it comes down to the amount of Lumens in a square ft. so having enough chips to provide the say 10,000 lumens in a square ft. at a certain amount a ft away is the trick, and to accomplish this we need diodes that are
1. High Quality Lm output &
2. Alot of them in a certain space to provide the Lm per square ft at a reasonable distance
As of now 3w watt LEDs Have the Brightness or Penetration , at pretty good levels for most type of growing. Yeh maybe 10w diodes would be nice.. but any brighter LED diodes we would have to space further away from the plants because of the intensity.
So more LEDs in the UNIT per Sq ft is what we want...so if we are trying to cover 4x4ft we need to make sure we keep the Lumens a Square ft high which is best accomplished by multiple LED units.
Thoughts anyone? this theory may be totally wrong....."