NFTG. Nectar For The Gods

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
Anyone able to clarify for me how the Hades Down compares to other ph adjusters oriented towards hydro?

I need to drop my soil pH a little bit and was going to grab some Hades as I usually haven't needed it, just Oly for up. When I looked at what exactly it was it's just phoshoric acid and citric acid it sounds? I still have a big ole' bag of the GH dry pH powders and if it's literally the same thing I'd rather be using what I have until it's gone and there's something to be said about not shopping bottles of water around the country, so I would prefer a dry powder that I can just mix up a batch as needed.

Is there any real advantage to using Hades? I read in one other place someone saying it's basically just highly diluted to minimize harm to the bio herd but hell I can water shit down just as well myself right? ;-)
 

calvin.m16

Well-Known Member
Anyone able to clarify for me how the Hades Down compares to other ph adjusters oriented towards hydro?

I need to drop my soil pH a little bit and was going to grab some Hades as I usually haven't needed it, just Oly for up. When I looked at what exactly it was it's just phoshoric acid and citric acid it sounds? I still have a big ole' bag of the GH dry pH powders and if it's literally the same thing I'd rather be using what I have until it's gone and there's something to be said about not shopping bottles of water around the country, so I would prefer a dry powder that I can just mix up a batch as needed.

Is there any real advantage to using Hades? I read in one other place someone saying it's basically just highly diluted to minimize harm to the bio herd but hell I can water shit down just as well myself right? ;-)
From what I've heard the PH Adjusters from Nectar For The Gods is not very strong. I overheard the guy at the shop say he uses BioBizz up & down instead so he stays organic but said its stronger. If your mixing small batches of nutrient solution per/week then just run with what they offer but sometimes it can be putting you back when you're mixing 40 gallons of nutrient solution a day.
 

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
Yeah I do like that it includes phosphoric acid, but I was also looking to avoid any more P inputs as well. So I think it uses both citric and phosphoric.

I did note that EarthJuice has their pH up/down 'crystals' but that is just citric acid for the pH down it looks. I was checked MSDS sheets on them both.

My understanding is that citric isn't very strong either and won't 'hold' the pH for long which is why phosphoric is preferred sometimes. What I really needed though is to drop the pH in the medium more than the feed but that would have to be done through some type of top dressing at this point for me as I'm in the midst of a run.
 

RetiredToker76

Well-Known Member
Yeah I do like that it includes phosphoric acid, but I was also looking to avoid any more P inputs as well. So I think it uses both citric and phosphoric.

I did note that EarthJuice has their pH up/down 'crystals' but that is just citric acid for the pH down it looks. I was checked MSDS sheets on them both.

My understanding is that citric isn't very strong either and won't 'hold' the pH for long which is why phosphoric is preferred sometimes. What I really needed though is to drop the pH in the medium more than the feed but that would have to be done through some type of top dressing at this point for me as I'm in the midst of a run.
As far as Hades Down, in the videos Scott basically says, "It's PH down, it's gentle phosphoric acid. Other manufacturers are stronger." So for my PH down, 99% of the time I use Gen-Hydro PH down because it "sticks" better in my cloning chamber. Hades down I'll have to redose 3-4 times before I get my chamber to stick at 6. About the only time I ever need to push my PH down is in aeroponic cloning. The nutes push my solution down to insane levels once Medusa and Gia are at 10ml per gal.

That being said, phosphoric acid will precipitate your nutrients out of your solution, so if you have to bring your water down, I'd use any manufacturers Ph down (including Hades) first before adding nutes, let it rest at least 6 hours if not a full day, then add nutes. I pre ph my cloning chamber for 48 hours and make sure it's stable before I put cuttings in it. Once life starts in the water it starts to climb again, but with GH I can drop it down to a stable 6 on day two after the cuttings are in.

My house water is around 7.5, the first week of veg is the only nute solution might comes above the 6.1 suggestion, when it does I usually just bump up the Medussa's a tiny bit, that drops the PH down and it's no where near enough to burn even fresh clones, the rather like a couple extra ml of Medussa's in early veg. Once I'm in late veg, I don't even bother measuring OlyUp as I pour it in. I'm usually pulling my nute solution up from around 5.6 - 5.8 to get it to the 6.3 - 6.4, and to be honest I've been running a bit high lately pushing around 6.5 in late veg.

Oly Up, yes it is weak, but it's also a bit of a nutrient. It's made from Liquid Limestone, which the plant dose absorb. As Scott says in the videos, 'You're building your buds with bone and rock." So even if you've really got to yank your water's PH up out of the basement after mixing your nutes, I wouldn't 100% cut out Oly Up, drop in at least 5ml - 10ml and if that doesn't bump you up enough then use another manufacturers ph up to push it the last bit over the line.

I'm probably pouring in upwards of 15ml to bring my Ph up on 1.5 gallons of nute solution. That gets me up to around 6.4-6.5, but honestly just use my Ph meter and then stop when I get to about .2 shy of my target PH. Another option is to add a tiny bit more Zeus Juice, it's PH is around 9, so it will yank up your solution pretty quickly too.


needed though is to drop the pH in the medium more than the feed
Do a Gia flush to yank your media down. Straight Gia Mania and water, PH it just a bit lower than you want your medium using Gia as your PH down. I yanked mine down from 7.1 and took it way too far with a single Gia flush at 5.5, I took it almost an entire .5 below my goal and it took almost all of flower to bring it back up to from 6.1 after I flushed 5.5. It takes about two weeks to show in your slurries but a single Gia flush will yoink your medium PH down really well. I wouldn't do a Gia flush any more powerful than about 6.1 or 6.2 unless your soil is WAY out of wack. I went way too low the time I did it.
 
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bubba73

Well-Known Member
As far as Hades Down, in the videos Scott basically says, "It's PH down, it's gentle phosphoric acid. Other manufacturers are stronger." So for my PH down, 99% of the time I use Gen-Hydro PH down because it "sticks" better in my cloning chamber. Hades down I'll have to redose 3-4 times before I get my chamber to stick at 6. About the only time I ever need to push my PH down is in aeroponic cloning. The nutes push my solution down to insane levels once Medusa and Gia are at 10ml per gal.

That being said, phosphoric acid will precipitate your nutrients out of your solution, so if you have to bring your water down, I'd use any manufacturers Ph down (including Hades) first before adding nutes, let it rest at least 6 hours if not a full day, then add nutes. I pre ph my cloning chamber for 48 hours and make sure it's stable before I put cuttings in it. Once life starts in the water it starts to climb again, but with GH I can drop it down to a stable 6 on day two after the cuttings are in.

My house water is around 7.5, the first week of veg is the only nute solution might comes above the 6.1 suggestion, when it does I usually just bump up the Medussa's a tiny bit, that drops the PH down and it's no where near enough to burn even fresh clones, the rather like a couple extra ml of Medussa's in early veg. Once I'm in late veg, I don't even bother measuring OlyUp as I pour it in. I'm usually pulling my nute solution up from around 5.6 - 5.8 to get it to the 6.3 - 6.4, and to be honest I've been running a bit high lately pushing around 6.5 in late veg.

Oly Up, yes it is weak, but it's also a bit of a nutrient. It's made from Liquid Limestone, which the plant dose absorb. As Scott says in the videos, 'You're building your buds with bone and rock." So even if you've really got to yank your water's PH up out of the basement after mixing your nutes, I wouldn't 100% cut out Oly Up, drop in at least 5ml - 10ml and if that doesn't bump you up enough then use another manufacturers ph up to push it the last bit over the line.

I'm probably pouring in upwards of 15ml to bring my Ph up on 1.5 gallons of nute solution. That gets me up to around 6.4-6.5, but honestly just use my Ph meter and then stop when I get to about .2 shy of my target PH. Another option is to add a tiny bit more Zeus Juice, it's PH is around 9, so it will yank up your solution pretty quickly too.




Do a Gia flush to yank your media down. Straight Gia Mania and water, PH it just a bit lower than you want your medium using Gia as your PH down. I yanked mine down from 7.1 and took it way too far with a single Gia flush at 5.5, I took it almost an entire .5 below my goal and it took almost all of flower to bring it back up to from 6.1 after I flushed 5.5. It takes about two weeks to show in your slurries but a single Gia flush will yoink your medium PH down really well. I wouldn't do a Gia flush any more powerful than about 6.1 or 6.2 unless your soil is WAY out of wack. I went way too low the time I did it.
Doesn’t take 2 weeks to show in slurry ….. I’m very anal with slurries , and it’s done when the next feeding is do …. before flowering you should have that ph in check and again that’s with slurries ….
 

Tejashidrow

Well-Known Member
Any one useing OneShot??
This is what I will use:
Nectar from gods:
Hotshot
Slf100
Olympus up
Herculean
Aphrodite
Fish Sh!t
I knowticed that there is no potassium in the NPK of the NFTG one shot or Herculean. Will this be a problem???
 

bubba73

Well-Known Member
Any one useing OneShot??
This is what I will use:
Nectar from gods:
Hotshot
Slf100
Olympus up
Herculean
Aphrodite
Fish Sh!t
I knowticed that there is no potassium in the NPK of the NFTG one shot or Herculean. Will this be a problem???
Should add gaia and , Medusa to your line… still think there giving free sample and all you pay is shipping ….
 

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
I've use a bit of the OneShot for upkeep of moms, little booster to veg/flowering plants, etc. More of a supplement than relying on it as primary source of nutrients. In the NPK it doesn't list any K iirc but it does have kelp in there, so not sure why it doesn't reflect any K value.
 

MontanaCo2

Active Member
Sure !!! Just make sure your ph is in range and you do slurries from the same water source .
I been using ro water that is causing low ph and deficiencies in late flower.
Going to try straight tap water next run and see if the extra alkalinity helps. My well water is really hard, around 160ppm alkalinity, 180ppm hardness, 220ppm total, 8.0ph, and has no treatments. Hopefully it doesn't raise ph too high.
Think i should mix 50/50 ro to tap or straight tap?
Thanks
 

bubba73

Well-Known Member
I been using ro water that is causing low ph and deficiencies in late flower.
Going to try straight tap water next run and see if the extra alkalinity helps. My well water is really hard, around 160ppm alkalinity, 180ppm hardness, 220ppm total, 8.0ph, and has no treatments. Hopefully it doesn't raise ph too high.
Think i should mix 50/50 ro to tap or straight tap?
Thanks
I’ve been using RO water and don’t have those issues …..my well is 300 ppm and ph around 7.8 …… but with my RO is fullon to add back some …. do you do slurries regularly? I do a preventative slurries when I feed if not ever feed every other feed…..
 

MontanaCo2

Active Member
I’ve been using RO water and don’t have those issues …..my well is 300 ppm and ph around 7.8 …… but with my RO is fullon to add back some …. do you do slurries regularly? I do a preventative slurries when I feed if not ever feed every other feed…..
Maybe I need to up my ppm then. I been doing half what the feeding chart says every water. What ppm is your feed and do you feed every watering? My slurries are always under 6ph and 300ppm.
 

bubba73

Well-Known Member
Maybe I need to up my ppm then. I been doing half what the feeding chart says every water. What ppm is your feed and do you feed every watering? My slurries are always under 6ph and 300ppm.
Yes up your feedings ….. I feed at 2570 ppm with ph of 6.5 ….l slurries are around 370 of ph 6.7,6.9 , now I’m in 3rd week of flower so she is ramping up to eat more…..and I water every 2 days , also you do not have to go by the feed , feed tea, feed feed herc … i go by the slurry #s , but I do try to get a herc and a tea in ….
 

MontanaCo2

Active Member
Yes up your feedings ….. I feed at 2570 ppm with ph of 6.5 ….l slurries are around 370 of ph 6.7,6.9 , now I’m in 3rd week of flower so she is ramping up to eat more…..and I water every 2 days , also you do not have to go by the feed , feed tea, feed feed herc … i go by the slurry #s , but I do try to get a herc and a tea in ….
Damn I am definitely underfeeding then. I was only feeding around 700ppm in soil every 2 days using feed feed tea feed feed flush.
Thanks for the help
 

SmokeyMcscrogin

Active Member
Its early Am and someone just sent me a Pm a wile back, thought i should my answer here also. I cant type or spell and I,m in a hurry so this is going to be a reading mess.

I built my whole system around NFTG managing ph ,bypassing bone gum and getting great flushes. I don't worry that my plants are not perfect after a few weeks of 1+ tbsp BK every feeding. I still pull the big tasty ones using cobs the Emerson effect and 4 tsp Bk . I now have almost all my genetics at 6.7 by week 3 some going as high as 7.2 by the end of feeding. The plants in the pic are only at 5.5 and 5 weeks and eating 7.1on left and 6.9 on the right. The plants on the left are a new slurricane pheno and it got a little twisty in the mid 6s but is now packing great in the 7s. The fan leaves are a little funky from being in that inflow hole , I rotate my scrogs so they all end up in the hole but Its ok they fade like everything else . I feed them 4-5 cups a day at 2700 ppms during stretch. Something like 1-2 tbsp gm, 1-2tbsp mm, 4-5 tbsp DD 1-2 tbsp HH and a tsp of zuese. Dont be afraid to use tons of AA as you get your lights closer keep your coco buffered with lots of Gm 6.7-7.0. As you add stuff start dropping the DD to keep ppms the same. near the end you will be down to 2-3 tbsp DD. Drop the DD before big Fade. Trust me dude , I have 7 years now in with NFTG and coco. If your talking fluence spyders bar lights than you need a ton more food even at 3'. Like my cobs with Emerson effect monochromes ,led bar lights are super intense. If those things are rocking the Emerson effect you will be feeding more than most. Never Flush or give tea and wate more that 30 mins to feed . Never flush unless you have to. If numbers are just a little to high flush with 1 tbsp per gal gm ph high 6s. lots and lots and lots of AA and PEGP during stretch Keep aa in at 3-5 tbsp per gal until until week 5 in 8 week strain week 6 on 9 -10 week strains. You will fade early with this line in coco if you don't keep the N way up. Again Keep the darn PH UP . If you notice the roots in the transplant , do those roots say 6.7 is to high in veg and 2600 ppms are to much ? Don't let anyone convince you to treat it like soil or take your ph to low or you will end up with soil yields healthy or unhealthy plant.

I design the whole grow system to help make checking and maintaining NFTG PH, Ec, Bypassing bone gum ,containing rh from waste water, collecting waste water,foliar feed pivot ,getting unbounded calcium to the bottom unbounded ,as well as adding negative pressure to root zone catching over spray and spill , training plants , hanging plants keeping all canopy's at the same height controlling spring tails and more. Its the fukn shz. Hope yal like.
 

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