No till method

Bignutes

Bignutes

Well-Known Member
To the no till guys. Is it imperative to add red wigglers or a difference variety of composter worm when doing no till? Also do you have to modify your soil texture to support the worms? How do I take my current soil that has plants in it and convert it to no till the next grow?

Also last two grows fungus knats seem to take over about mid grow, then after using malted barley mixed in my water they all but disappear and I get those good little mites crawling all over. Anyone else experience this?
 
W

waktoo

Well-Known Member
Red wigglers are the best for pots. You really don't need to do anything to your soil to support worms. Just throw them in there, plant or no plant.

While this is the first observation I've heard about PMB having beneficial effect on fungus gnats, it makes perfect sense. PMB contains chitinase, which is an enzyme that breaks down chitin. Chitin formation is essential for exoskeleton production in insects. I think it makes up the material in their wings, too. I would expect that the chitinase is interfering with the chitin buildup during the gnat's larval stage. Pretty cool.

Check out what diflubenzuron does to fungus gnat larvae...

en.wikipedia.org

Fungus gnat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

en.wikipedia.org

Chitin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Bignutes

Bignutes

Well-Known Member
Cool info, how long do red wigglers need to devour a root ball? Also I'm guessing no more granular fertilizer just compost after adding them, right?
 
W

waktoo

Well-Known Member
Bignutes said:
Cool info, how long do red wigglers need to devour a root ball? Also I'm guessing no more granular fertilizer just compost after adding them, right?
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As far as I'm aware, worms like red wigglers don't "eat" roots. And you sure don't have to worry about the roots being degraded before planting a new plant into a no-till container. The old roots will be broken down by microbes, providing the nutrients stored within them over time.

Nothing wrong with adding fertilizers when you top dress with compost, especially in smaller containers. Just don't overdo it.

Question for you...

You said you used MB mixed with water. Was there any bubbling/aeration involved?
 
Bignutes

Bignutes

Well-Known Member
waktoo said:
As far as I'm aware, worms like red wigglers don't "eat" roots. And you sure don't have to worry about the roots being degraded before planting a new plant into a no-till container. The old roots will be broken down by microbes, providing the nutrients stored within them over time.

Nothing wrong with adding fertilizers when you top dress with compost, especially in smaller containers. Just don't overdo it.

Question for you...

You said you used MB mixed with water. Was there any bubbling/aeration involved?
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No just mixed in and poured on.

So i take it red wigglers arent necessary then? Just compost or is it the red's that make the compost do it's thing.

Awesome, thank you for the info!
 
W

waktoo

Well-Known Member
Bignutes said:
No just mixed in and poured on.

So i take it red wigglers arent necessary then? Just compost or is it the red's that make the compost do it's thing.

Awesome, thank you for the info!
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Intentionally adding worms to pots is overkill, IMO. Too much agricultural science is miss-appropriated for container gardening. Properly built and aged compost should already have worms living in it. Quality EWC should come with an appreciable amount of worms cocoons in it as well.

Compost "does it's thing" by way of microbial action. Worms move in after the heavy lifting has been done by them...
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Bignutes said:
To the no till guys. Is it imperative to add red wigglers or a difference variety of composter worm when doing no till? Also do you have to modify your soil texture to support the worms? How do I take my current soil that has plants in it and convert it to no till the next grow?

Also last two grows fungus knats seem to take over about mid grow, then after using malted barley mixed in my water they all but disappear and I get those good little mites crawling all over. Anyone else experience this?
Click to expand...
Do you buy new soil everytime, what kind? And do you start using molasses at the same time each grow, and if so at what week?

I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the malted barley. Those mites are the ones doing the work. They're beneficial predatory mites. Probably hypoaspis miles. Gnats are their favorite food.

And it's easy to turn old soil into no-till as long as you start with a good organic soil and don't screw it up with a bunch of salts. Just need to add a bunch of stuff.

Also ya I have red wigglers in my pots. They are decomposers, and break down all kinds of organic matter. They also aerate the soil and basically produce fresh EWC. They are recommended for no-till.
IMG_3824.JPG
IMG_3827.JPG
 
Bignutes

Bignutes

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
Do you buy new soil everytime, what kind? And do you start using molasses at the same time each grow, and if so at what week?

I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the malted barley. Those mites are the ones doing the work. They're beneficial predatory mites. Probably hypoaspis miles. Gnats are their favorite food.

And it's easy to turn old soil into no-till as long as you start with a good organic soil and don't screw it up with a bunch of salts. Just need to add a bunch of stuff.

Also ya I have red wigglers in my pots. They are decomposers, and break down all kinds of organic matter. They also aerate the soil and basically produce fresh EWC. They are recommended for no-till.
View attachment 4593673
View attachment 4593674
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Molasses by fourth week, haven't used the soil over. Red's will help it out by the looks of it.
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Bignutes said:
Molasses by fourth week, haven't used the soil over. Red's will help it out by the looks of it.
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That's what I figured about the fungus gnats. You start with new soil and start giving it lots of water. The fungus gnats reproduce like mad, and so the hypoaspis miles start reproducing like mad too since there's lots of food available. Then eventually the beneficial mites have established enough of a population to kill all the gnats before you ever see them.

I had a few gnats with my fresh soil at first too, but the mites took over and I haven't seen one in a year and a half now. Same soil, but turned into no-till.
 
Bignutes

Bignutes

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
That's what I figured about the fungus gnats. You start with new soil and start giving it lots of water. The fungus gnats reproduce like mad, and so the hypoaspis miles start reproducing like mad too since there's lots of food available. Then eventually the beneficial mites have established enough of a population to kill all the gnats before you ever see them.

I had a few gnats with my fresh soil at first too, but the mites took over and I haven't seen one in a year and a half now. Same soil, but turned into no-till.
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That's good to know! I agree the mites take over but it coincided with mb whereas your didn't so it must be as you state and what I observed was coincidental
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Bignutes said:
That's good to know! I agree the mites take over but it coincided with mb whereas your didn't so it must be as you state and what I observed was coincidental
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I do use malted barley now, but I think it was just just a coincidence.
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green_machine_two9er

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
That's what I figured about the fungus gnats. You start with new soil and start giving it lots of water. The fungus gnats reproduce like mad, and so the hypoaspis miles start reproducing like mad too since there's lots of food available. Then eventually the beneficial mites have established enough of a population to kill all the gnats before you ever see them.

I had a few gnats with my fresh soil at first too, but the mites took over and I haven't seen one in a year and a half now. Same soil, but turned into no-till.
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Do you need to apply the predator mites? Or over time are they naturally going to be in compost and ewc?
 
Gardenator

Gardenator

Well-Known Member
@Bignutes so how is your no till experience treating you so far? Any feedback for us on adding the red worms? Have you topdressed and started another grow in the no till yet?
 
Bignutes

Bignutes

Well-Known Member
I changed course and made the grow a sip instead. Sorry I can't give you any feedback on no till, although a no till sip would be the dogs balls. Using LAB serum and sips is what I decided to put my energy into as it's low maintenance during grow, no till is next step.
 
Gardenator

Gardenator

Well-Known Member
Bignutes said:
I changed course and made the grow a sip instead. Sorry I can't give you any feedback on no till, although a no till sip would be the dogs balls. Using LAB serum and sips is what I decided to put my energy into as it's low maintenance during grow, no till is next step.
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Well then i will catch ya on ur next set up... just a quick question, why did the SIP turn out as less work to maintain? Also how did it come out?
 
Bignutes

Bignutes

Well-Known Member
One pot I didn't water for 40 days, no ph, no guessing when and how much, it was a smaller plant. I put it on auto pilot, no teas, no additional fertilizer, no ph'ing but at that point i didnt have lab made and i sorely needed it, water got funky but the plants didn't mind.
 
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