Not knowing what's going on here

@EastCoastGenetix

Well-Known Member
I don't get what's up here. They are 2 different strains girl scout cookies is the sparse looking one. The dense one is green crack. Soil pH is at 7 ish. And all they get is water and compost tea. Tea consists of worm poo, compost, fish bone meal, molasses, bokashi, kelp extract, phed to 6.5.
And its really 23c in the tent. That is a broke stat. View attachment 4740074View attachment 4740075View attachment 4740076
View attachment 4740074View attachment 4740076View attachment 4740074
Cheap the strength of your teas. It's too early for them to be fading out. Looking at the dead leaves it's taking the nutrition from the lower for the top. Are you only using tea's and water?
 

collieBudz

Well-Known Member
I don’t grow in soil or use teas, so it’s hard to say.. but it has a ph fluctuation problem look to it, with a bit of Nute lockout being what you see.. over watering a bit too? Less is more in these times, I’d give them straight water and test your runoff ppm and ph.. flush em out a bit and see what happens
 

kratos015

Well-Known Member
I don’t grow in soil or use teas, so it’s hard to say.. but it has a ph fluctuation problem look to it, with a bit of Nute lockout being what you see.. over watering a bit too? Less is more in these times, I’d give them straight water and test your runoff ppm and ph.. flush em out a bit and see what happens
Came here to say exactly this. I'm seeing a myriad of macro and micro nutrient deficiencies in these photos.

This is a class pH/nutrient lockout/root rot issue for sure likely caused by overwatering. Maybe you're watering too much, or maybe your water is too hard and is fucking with your pH. However, in my personal experience, even hard water won't cause that many nutrient deficiencies.

My guess is that your pots weren't full of roots before you triggered 12/12, thereby making it easier to overwater. You're likely dealing with root rot, acidic pH, anaerobic soil conditions, or a combination of the aforementioned issues.

You say you pH'd your soil, how? If you used a probe, those are incredibly unreliable. Don't trust those friend.

Grab yourself some RO water from a local water machine and water until runoff, then pH the runoff with a pH kit. That will give you a much better idea of your soil's pH than those probes, those products are bogus unfortunately.

The amount of deficiencies I'm seeing, there's no possible way the issue is a lack of nutrients. This 100% looks like a pH lockout to me, or perhaps root rot, regardless this is caused by overwatering.

Take it easy on the watering for a while, use the pot lift technique to determine when you should water again.

Underwatering is an easy fix, just water and they'll be fine in hours. I've had plants in 122F temps for hours when my ACs shut down on me, the plants were drooping but they came back in mere hours after giving them water and fixing the issue with my ACs.

Overwatering? You'll be dealing with the consequences of overwatering for weeks. Nutrient lockout, acidic pH, anaerobic soil conditions, insufficient oxygen in the rhizosphere, its all bad.

Unfortunately, being in flower you'll just have to take it in stride and use this as a learning experience. Live and learn my friend.
 

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
Most ph up or down will real havoc on soil grows. Your effectively destroying all microherd. Also a "compost tea should Be used just once in a while if st all. Maybe our overdoing it with that tea recipe. How often are you giving tea? I always think about compost tea and nutrient tea as two very different things.

Aact: compost/ molasses and air. That's it. If you feel the need To try to "feed" think about top dressing instead. Less is more with soil. I haven't owned a ph pen in 5 years. Focus on feeding your soil, not the plants. Good luck.
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
I have some plants right now that look almost like this... well maybe not quite this far gone yet but they are also starting week 9 and will be cut in 3-4 weeks. I do know what’s wrong with them; a lack of NPK and/or macros. Could also be ph/absorption related but we have other plants that were started the same time in bloom. The soil those plants are in was amended and well fertilized; they are still green.
If this plant was not transplanted just before flipping to bloom phase that’s one thing. If you did not fully amend or at least fertilize the soil before transplanting that’s another. You never mentioned what kind of mix you use but that could be a factor; in my exp it takes a few amend and recycles to get the soil to that supernatural status where mostly just water only will sustain them through to harvest time. Teas are good for maintaining microbial activity but do little to provide enough NPK to sustain plants long term.
I would try to do a top dress of something like ewc, kelp, and fish bone meal. That probably won’t turn them green again but might keep them healthy to maturity. Next time try to act as soon as they start to go south. Thing about organics is you have to sort of give them what they need before they actually do. Once you see them get pale its already to late to do much to reverse it. Another thing you can do is give a mild (low npk value) soluble nutrient that’s safe for living soil like liquid fish emulsion; could help get them over the finish line. Cut off all the dead shit too; it gives harbor to mold.
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Overwatering left here years ago when I started weighing everything before watering, every time.
 

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
Overwatering will display so many symptoms, damn easy to do, especially with people new to dirt growing. I have had to put the can down and let em be. About as hard as quitting Nicotine.
I was going to say overwatering too. The pictures look like the soil is moist.
 
Came here to say exactly this. I'm seeing a myriad of macro and micro nutrient deficiencies in these photos.

This is a class pH/nutrient lockout/root rot issue for sure likely caused by overwatering. Maybe you're watering too much, or maybe your water is too hard and is fucking with your pH. However, in my personal experience, even hard water won't cause that many nutrient deficiencies.

My guess is that your pots weren't full of roots before you triggered 12/12, thereby making it easier to overwater. You're likely dealing with root rot, acidic pH, anaerobic soil conditions, or a combination of the aforementioned issues.

You say you pH'd your soil, how? If you used a probe, those are incredibly unreliable. Don't trust those friend.

Grab yourself some RO water from a local water machine and water until runoff, then pH the runoff with a pH kit. That will give you a much better idea of your soil's pH than those probes, those products are bogus unfortunately.

The amount of deficiencies I'm seeing, there's no possible way the issue is a lack of nutrients. This 100% looks like a pH lockout to me, or perhaps root rot, regardless this is caused by overwatering.

Take it easy on the watering for a while, use the pot lift technique to determine when you should water again.

Underwatering is an easy fix, just water and they'll be fine in hours. I've had plants in 122F temps for hours when my ACs shut down on me, the plants were drooping but they came back in mere hours after giving them water and fixing the issue with my ACs.

Overwatering? You'll be dealing with the consequences of overwatering for weeks. Nutrient lockout, acidic pH, anaerobic soil conditions, insufficient oxygen in the rhizosphere, its all bad.

Unfortunately, being in flower you'll just have to take it in stride and use this as a learning experience. Live and learn my friend.
I agree totally. The soil is heavy, thought I added enough pearl light. So when I reuse the soil I'm adding a ton of rice hauls as I have a ton of them. Second run at organic got the learning curve but thanks to alot of good folks I'm Learning.
Thanks man!
 

kratos015

Well-Known Member
I agree totally. The soil is heavy, thought I added enough pearl light. So when I reuse the soil I'm adding a ton of rice hauls as I have a ton of them. Second run at organic got the learning curve but thanks to alot of good folks I'm Learning.
Thanks man!
You'll get the hang of it.

I run 40% perlite in my mix, personally. The mantra is 30-33% but I've had better results since upping it to 40% of the total mix.

Rice hulls are good, problem is they decompose so I don't like to use them for that reason. Good for those that recycle their soil, but I prefer no-till and need the aeration/drainage to stay consistent and not decompose on me.
 

Northwood

Well-Known Member
@kratos015 On first thought, my concern with rice hulls would be that they might steal nitrogen from your soil while breaking down. I'm not sure how easily they decompose though with nitrogen sources available around them. Perhaps it's like peat moss and coir and holds up a long time. I have no experience with rice hulls, but I'd probably carbonize them first if using for drainage purposes.

In the Philippines, most growers just dump it in giant piles on the side of the road to rot and waste, but one guy I know there is right into more modern agricultural techniques and I got to see his DIY rice carbonizing setup and it was really cool.
 

MintyDreadlocks

Well-Known Member
@kratos015 On first thought, my concern with rice hulls would be that they might steal nitrogen from your soil while breaking down. I'm not sure how easily they decompose though with nitrogen sources available around them. Perhaps it's like peat moss and coir and holds up a long time. I have no experience with rice hulls, but I'd probably carbonize them first if using for drainage purposes.

In the Philippines, most growers just dump it in giant piles on the side of the road to rot and waste, but one guy I know there is right into more modern agricultural techniques and I got to see his DIY rice carbonizing setup and it was really cool.
That's interesting. Are the rice hulls carbonized for living-super soil dressings/mixes?

@Op. Lots of useful ideas here with what the problem could be. I see a pH issue witch in turn lead to more issues with nurtirent uptake etc.
 

Darpinion

New Member
I don't get what's up here. They are 2 different strains girl scout cookies is the sparse looking one. The dense one is green crack. Soil pH is at 7 ish. And all they get is water and compost tea. Tea consists of worm poo, compost, fish bone meal, molasses, bokashi, kelp extract, phed to 6.5.
And its really 23c in the tent. That is a broke stat. View attachment 4740074View attachment 4740075View attachment 4740076
View attachment 4740074View attachment 4740076View attachment 4740074
I'm thinking they are over watered.
 

Aussieaceae

Well-Known Member
I agree totally. The soil is heavy, thought I added enough pearl light. So when I reuse the soil I'm adding a ton of rice hauls as I have a ton of them. Second run at organic got the learning curve but thanks to alot of good folks I'm Learning.
Thanks man!
Aeration must be it then.

I'm 100% with kratos that it's a pH problem, lockout, roots, or a combination. Aeration is generally most important for all.

Out of curiosity, how did you come to the conclusion your soil's pH was 7. How did you test it to reach that number?
If you tested it properly and your top soil is 7, then down the bottom could be much lower..
Also the bottom and centre is likely staying soggy longer than the top soil. Especially if your soil is heavy.. If there's root rot anywhere, that's where it'll be.

Looks like pH problems and root disease, caused by overwatering and lack of aeration. (in my honest opinion)

One thing to bare in mind too, is, if your soil's heavy, overwatered, or lacking aeration. Then rich organic matter isn't necessarily a good thing, including your microbial tea.
If your soil's environment is ripe for anaerobic bacteria and conditions, then your aerobic bacteria is being out competed. Aerobic tea will effectively be food for the anaerobic environment. It's balance which is most important.

If you're also finding you're having to water too often, because the top soil's drying out too fast. Add a layer of mulch to your top soil.

Good luck. All the best. :leaf:
 

kratos015

Well-Known Member
@kratos015 On first thought, my concern with rice hulls would be that they might steal nitrogen from your soil while breaking down. I'm not sure how easily they decompose though with nitrogen sources available around them. Perhaps it's like peat moss and coir and holds up a long time. I have no experience with rice hulls, but I'd probably carbonize them first if using for drainage purposes.

In the Philippines, most growers just dump it in giant piles on the side of the road to rot and waste, but one guy I know there is right into more modern agricultural techniques and I got to see his DIY rice carbonizing setup and it was really cool.
This is definitely a cause for concern, and something that we no-till/living organic soil growers should be familiar with.

This is why its a good idea to have plenty of nitrogen in your soil. You don't just need nitrogen for your plants, but to facilitate the composting process as well as to provide energy to the microbes putting in all of the work. Nitrogen = energy. This is why mulch can potentially cause issues if you don't have enough nitrogen in your soil. The mulch will leech nitrogen from your soil to break down (C:N reaction). If you have cover crops that are nitrogen fixators, or you keep on top of your top dresses, you'll never experience this issue.

I've no experience with Rice Hulls, personally. I've heard from many people that use them that they decompose within a year, at best. Great if you're a ROLS guy, but not so great if you're a no-till guy. Rice hulls are in fact carbon, and not nitrogen, so they'll decompose within a year in a good quality living soil. Not just that, but in my experience, unless you live near a brewery rice hulls can be pretty pricey. They provide tons of silica to your soil, which is awesome, but simply not worth the cost IMO. Perlite has remained the industry standard for decades mostly due to its cost effectiveness. If you can get pumice for cheap, pumice is the best. But $20 for 4cuft of perlite is very tough to beat.

What exactly does carbonizing the rice hulls accomplish? This is the first I'm hearing of this and I'm very much interested in hearing more.

Everything I've said about Rice Hulls, I think the absolute best use for rice hulls would be in a worm bin. But again, I don't live next to an affordable source of rice hulls. Until I can find 4cuft of pumice/hulls for $20, I'll be sticking with perlite. Even for a worm bin.



That's interesting. Are the rice hulls carbonized for living-super soil dressings/mixes?

@Op. Lots of useful ideas here with what the problem could be. I see a pH issue witch in turn lead to more issues with nurtirent uptake etc.
In my experience, most of the time a pH issue is the result of overwatering. Consider how powerful of a buffer dolomite lime is, and the fact that it is in practically every and any soil mix. If one has dolomite lime in their soil, and is still experiencing abnormal pH conditions, this is almost always the result of overwatering. Overwatering results in a lack of oxygen. No oxygen = anaerobic bacteria. The result of anaerobic bacteria feeding on the amendments in your soil = ammonium gas. Ammonium gas has a pH of ~11-12, which can easily override the dolomite lime/buffering agent in your soil.


Aeration must be it then.

I'm 100% with kratos that it's a pH problem, lockout, roots, or a combination. Aeration is generally most important for all.

Out of curiosity, how did you come to the conclusion your soil's pH was 7. How did you test it to reach that number?
If you tested it properly and your top soil is 7, then down the bottom could be much lower..
Also the bottom and centre is likely staying soggy longer than the top soi
l. Especially if your soil is heavy.. If there's root rot anywhere, that's where it'll be.

Looks like pH problems and root disease, caused by overwatering and lack of aeration. (in my honest opinion)

One thing to bare in mind too, is, if your soil's heavy, overwatered, or lacking aeration. Then rich organic matter isn't necessarily a good thing, including your microbial tea.
If your soil's environment is ripe for anaerobic bacteria and conditions, then your aerobic bacteria is being out competed. Aerobic tea will effectively be food for the anaerobic environment. It's balance which is most important.

If you're also finding you're having to water too often, because the top soil's drying out too fast. Add a layer of mulch to your top soil.

Good luck. All the best. :leaf:

Aeration is a huge deal. I eliminated the bulk of my problems by running 40% perlite in my base mix instead of the usual 30-33%. One can always top dress with compost. However, one cannot top dress with more perlite and/or peat.

As for the bottom/center staying soggy, this confirms an issue with a lack of aeration/drainage. The magic of peat and coco is the fact that they act as a "wick" for water. So, if one has dry soil on top and wet soil on the bottom, this leads me to believe the soil is already compacting so much (due to lack of perlite) to the point that the wicking action cannot take place.

As Aussie says, in an overwatered soil rich organic matter will actually be the death of you because you're effectively feeding the anaerobic microbes instead of the aerobic ones (the good guys).

You ever had soil smell like a combination of rotten eggs, dirty feet, and diapers? Ammonium gas. The byproduct of anaerobic bacteria. As Aussie says, even worse than the aerobic bacteria being out-competed.. they're actually being devoured and eaten as food in conjunction with the organic inputs in your soil.

For those of you that are still in veg, this issue can be remedied by transplanting into larger pots with extra perlite added into the mix. If you're in veg, you can always up-pot into soil with extra perlite.

Unfortunately, if you're in flower you're just kind of fucked and you have to let things ride.

This is why I run a base mix of 40% peat/40% perlite/20% compost. I top dress with compost constantly, because it is an option. I cannot top dress with aeration, however.

Hydrogen peroxide may be a decent solution for dealing with root rot (because it adds oxygen to your soil), however this isn't something you can do on a consistent basis because too much H2O2 will wreak havoc on the microbes within your soil.

Consider a human being, microbes are no different. In order of what is most important? Air>Water>Food
 

MintyDreadlocks

Well-Known Member
This is definitely a cause for concern, and something that we no-till/living organic soil growers should be familiar with.

This is why its a good idea to have plenty of nitrogen in your soil. You don't just need nitrogen for your plants, but to facilitate the composting process as well as to provide energy to the microbes putting in all of the work. Nitrogen = energy. This is why mulch can potentially cause issues if you don't have enough nitrogen in your soil. The mulch will leech nitrogen from your soil to break down (C:N reaction). If you have cover crops that are nitrogen fixators, or you keep on top of your top dresses, you'll never experience this issue.

I've no experience with Rice Hulls, personally. I've heard from many people that use them that they decompose within a year, at best. Great if you're a ROLS guy, but not so great if you're a no-till guy. Rice hulls are in fact carbon, and not nitrogen, so they'll decompose within a year in a good quality living soil. Not just that, but in my experience, unless you live near a brewery rice hulls can be pretty pricey. They provide tons of silica to your soil, which is awesome, but simply not worth the cost IMO. Perlite has remained the industry standard for decades mostly due to its cost effectiveness. If you can get pumice for cheap, pumice is the best. But $20 for 4cuft of perlite is very tough to beat.

What exactly does carbonizing the rice hulls accomplish? This is the first I'm hearing of this and I'm very much interested in hearing more.

Everything I've said about Rice Hulls, I think the absolute best use for rice hulls would be in a worm bin. But again, I don't live next to an affordable source of rice hulls. Until I can find 4cuft of pumice/hulls for $20, I'll be sticking with perlite. Even for a worm bin.





In my experience, most of the time a pH issue is the result of overwatering. Consider how powerful of a buffer dolomite lime is, and the fact that it is in practically every and any soil mix. If one has dolomite lime in their soil, and is still experiencing abnormal pH conditions, this is almost always the result of overwatering. Overwatering results in a lack of oxygen. No oxygen = anaerobic bacteria. The result of anaerobic bacteria feeding on the amendments in your soil = ammonium gas. Ammonium gas has a pH of ~11-12, which can easily override the dolomite lime/buffering agent in your soil.





Aeration is a huge deal. I eliminated the bulk of my problems by running 40% perlite in my base mix instead of the usual 30-33%. One can always top dress with compost. However, one cannot top dress with more perlite and/or peat.

As for the bottom/center staying soggy, this confirms an issue with a lack of aeration/drainage. The magic of peat and coco is the fact that they act as a "wick" for water. So, if one has dry soil on top and wet soil on the bottom, this leads me to believe the soil is already compacting so much (due to lack of perlite) to the point that the wicking action cannot take place.

As Aussie says, in an overwatered soil rich organic matter will actually be the death of you because you're effectively feeding the anaerobic microbes instead of the aerobic ones (the good guys).

You ever had soil smell like a combination of rotten eggs, dirty feet, and diapers? Ammonium gas. The byproduct of anaerobic bacteria. As Aussie says, even worse than the aerobic bacteria being out-competed.. they're actually being devoured and eaten as food in conjunction with the organic inputs in your soil.

For those of you that are still in veg, this issue can be remedied by transplanting into larger pots with extra perlite added into the mix. If you're in veg, you can always up-pot into soil with extra perlite.

Unfortunately, if you're in flower you're just kind of fucked and you have to let things ride.

This is why I run a base mix of 40% peat/40% perlite/20% compost. I top dress with compost constantly, because it is an option. I cannot top dress with aeration, however.

Hydrogen peroxide may be a decent solution for dealing with root rot (because it adds oxygen to your soil), however this isn't something you can do on a consistent basis because too much H2O2 will wreak havoc on the microbes within your soil.

Consider a human being, microbes are no different. In order of what is most important? Air>Water>Food
Thanks for taking the time to address everyone with detailed info bro. Deserves bookmark.
 

Aussieaceae

Well-Known Member
This is definitely a cause for concern, and something that we no-till/living organic soil growers should be familiar with.

This is why its a good idea to have plenty of nitrogen in your soil. You don't just need nitrogen for your plants, but to facilitate the composting process as well as to provide energy to the microbes putting in all of the work. Nitrogen = energy. This is why mulch can potentially cause issues if you don't have enough nitrogen in your soil. The mulch will leech nitrogen from your soil to break down (C:N reaction). If you have cover crops that are nitrogen fixators, or you keep on top of your top dresses, you'll never experience this issue.

I've no experience with Rice Hulls, personally. I've heard from many people that use them that they decompose within a year, at best. Great if you're a ROLS guy, but not so great if you're a no-till guy. Rice hulls are in fact carbon, and not nitrogen, so they'll decompose within a year in a good quality living soil. Not just that, but in my experience, unless you live near a brewery rice hulls can be pretty pricey. They provide tons of silica to your soil, which is awesome, but simply not worth the cost IMO. Perlite has remained the industry standard for decades mostly due to its cost effectiveness. If you can get pumice for cheap, pumice is the best. But $20 for 4cuft of perlite is very tough to beat.

What exactly does carbonizing the rice hulls accomplish? This is the first I'm hearing of this and I'm very much interested in hearing more.

Everything I've said about Rice Hulls, I think the absolute best use for rice hulls would be in a worm bin. But again, I don't live next to an affordable source of rice hulls. Until I can find 4cuft of pumice/hulls for $20, I'll be sticking with perlite. Even for a worm bin.





In my experience, most of the time a pH issue is the result of overwatering. Consider how powerful of a buffer dolomite lime is, and the fact that it is in practically every and any soil mix. If one has dolomite lime in their soil, and is still experiencing abnormal pH conditions, this is almost always the result of overwatering. Overwatering results in a lack of oxygen. No oxygen = anaerobic bacteria. The result of anaerobic bacteria feeding on the amendments in your soil = ammonium gas. Ammonium gas has a pH of ~11-12, which can easily override the dolomite lime/buffering agent in your soil.





Aeration is a huge deal. I eliminated the bulk of my problems by running 40% perlite in my base mix instead of the usual 30-33%. One can always top dress with compost. However, one cannot top dress with more perlite and/or peat.

As for the bottom/center staying soggy, this confirms an issue with a lack of aeration/drainage. The magic of peat and coco is the fact that they act as a "wick" for water. So, if one has dry soil on top and wet soil on the bottom, this leads me to believe the soil is already compacting so much (due to lack of perlite) to the point that the wicking action cannot take place.

As Aussie says, in an overwatered soil rich organic matter will actually be the death of you because you're effectively feeding the anaerobic microbes instead of the aerobic ones (the good guys).

You ever had soil smell like a combination of rotten eggs, dirty feet, and diapers? Ammonium gas. The byproduct of anaerobic bacteria. As Aussie says, even worse than the aerobic bacteria being out-competed.. they're actually being devoured and eaten as food in conjunction with the organic inputs in your soil.

For those of you that are still in veg, this issue can be remedied by transplanting into larger pots with extra perlite added into the mix. If you're in veg, you can always up-pot into soil with extra perlite.

Unfortunately, if you're in flower you're just kind of fucked and you have to let things ride.

This is why I run a base mix of 40% peat/40% perlite/20% compost. I top dress with compost constantly, because it is an option. I cannot top dress with aeration, however.

Hydrogen peroxide may be a decent solution for dealing with root rot (because it adds oxygen to your soil), however this isn't something you can do on a consistent basis because too much H2O2 will wreak havoc on the microbes within your soil.

Consider a human being, microbes are no different. In order of what is most important? Air>Water>Food
Great advice and post as always @kratos015. :fire:
 
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