Nutrient Lockout?

U

Umbra40

Member
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These are two different strains - Gelat.OG and White Widow. both have the same problem. First pic it with ambient room lighting, second pic is under LEDs. Plants get about 33,000 lux at the canopy with 4,000k 80 CRI white LED quantum strips. Plants are in vegetative stage with light on 18/6. Plants are older than I'd care to admit. 2 gallon plastic pots with 2/3rds potting mix, 1/3rd perlite.

I think it's nutrient lockout. New growth is pale green, droops straight down, and develops brown tips. Right now there may be a touch of underwatering too. If I water them I expect them to perk up a bit, but not much.

I had real bad lockout earlier where everything stopped growing. I used fox farms boomerang as directed for at least two weeks before things started growing again. I suspect that happened because I was feeding with fox farms grow big, big bloom, and cal mag as directed, but I wasn't watering enough so there's was excess out of the bottom of the pots. So all the fertilizer and salt accumulated. Once things started up again I waited another week (maybe two and went back to fertilizing). When plants begin to droop from dry soil I top water until there's plenty excess out of the bottom.

What I'm planning on doing if no one suggests otherwise is go back to using the boomerang stuff to remove excess salts. If I'm wrong I think it being underfed is a simpler fix than overfeeding.

I look forward to any suggestions you might be able to provide. Thank you.
 
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bernie344

bernie344

Well-Known Member
Umbra40 said:
View attachment 4815358View attachment 4815359

These are two different strains - Gelat.OG and White Widow. both have the same problem. First pic it with ambient room lighting, second pic is under LEDs. Plants get about 33,000 lux at the canopy with 4,000k 80 CRI white LED quantum strips. Plants are in vegetative stage with light on 18/6. Plants are older than I'd care to admit. 2 gallon plastic pots with 2/3rds potting mix, 1/3rd perlite.

I think it's nutrient lockout. New growth is pale green, droops straight down, and develops brown tips. Right now there may be a touch of underwatering too. If I water them I expect them to perk up a bit, but not much.

I had real bad lockout earlier where everything stopped growing. I used fox farms boomerang as directed for at least two weeks before things started growing again. I suspect that happened because I was feeding with fox farms grow big, big bloom, and cal mag as directed, but I wasn't watering enough so there's was excess out of the bottom of the pots. So all the fertilizer and salt accumulated. Once things started up again I waited another week (maybe two and went back to fertilizing). When plants begin to droop from dry soil I top water until there's plenty excess out of the bottom.

What I'm planning on doing if no one suggests otherwise is go back to using the boomerang stuff to remove excess salts. If I'm wrong I think it being underfed is a simpler fix than overfeeding.

I look forward to any suggestions you might be able to provide. Thank you.
Click to expand...
What ec are you feeding
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
Are they in soil? Are you ph'ing the water? Have you feed them anything but boomerang over the past two weeks?
 
U

Umbra40

Member
bernie344 said:
What ec are you feeding
Click to expand...
I have no idea. I'm in a mix of potting soil and perlite. I add fertilizer every other watering at the recommended ratio. That's about once a week. Hearing it out loud is making me cringe. It's a wonder they're alive. I just got a tds meter. If I check the runoff would that give me an idea of how much salt is in there?
Rurumo said:
Are they in soil? Are you ph'ing the water? Have you feed them anything but boomerang over the past two weeks? Thank you
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they're in a mixture of potting soil and perlite (2:1). I checked the pH of the water when it wasn't growing and it was too acidic iirc. I irrigated the pots several times over with water and check the pH after waterings for a few times and it was normal again. This and the boomerang treatments were a couple months ago. Since they started growing again I resumed feeding. My only real change was watering them fully til there was plenty of runoff so in mind it would push the deposits out. Thank you
 
athlete

athlete

Well-Known Member
No one thinks this is nutrient lockout?

Those stems are deep red which means they've been unhealthy for a long time. That is the only thing I'm certain of.

Keep in mind, I suck at growing cannabis indoors.
 
U

Umbra40

Member
bernie344 said:
What ec are you feeding
Click to expand...
I just did some googling and checking the runoff isnt the right way to check tds or pH. I'm going to get some soil, mix it 1:1 with distilled water, let that brew, strain it, and then test that water.
athlete said:
No one thinks this is nutrient lockout?

Those stems are deep red which means they've been unhealthy for a long time. That is the only thing I'm certain of.

Keep in mind, I suck at growing cannabis indoors.
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Thanks for the tip. I didn't notice the stems were potentially abnormal
 
S

SteakBags

Well-Known Member
Try flushing the soil and seeing if they bounce back, that should help if it’s a lockout. I’ve had a very similar looking plant, just overall sad looking with the yellowing/dying leaves from outside in ..and symptoms usually take hold quick. Flushing the soil has helped both times. Both times happened when I added too many nutes.


Or feed and if it doesn’t get better it’s prob a lockout. Trial and error
 
U

Umbra40

Member
bernie344 said:
What ec are you feeding
Click to expand...
Got around to doing a slurry test last night. Survey says.... Tds for the soil is 240ppm. Seems like I was wrong and they might be real under fed. Maybe the fert is old, I read the directions wrong, or I'm just plain not giving them enough. I'm going to try feeding them more and see where that gets me.
 
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hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
Umbra40 said:
Thanks. I don't doubt they could use a drink, but I'm worried about misdiagnosing and doing the exact opposite of what's needed.
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If in doubt just use water. Straight out of the faucet in your kitchen. Watch the plants. With everything you’ve given so far I promise they’re not going to starve. Just water a couple of times.
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
Also take a skewer or anything else long enough to reach the bottom of the container. Go through the medium and tear it up. It is not going to hurt the roots. Pierce everywhere multiple times. You can’t do it too much eh? Including under the plant through any rootball. Aerate it thoroughly. Then use just straight water until they perk up. Don’t flip back to 18/6 or they’ll reveg and likely hermie.
 
bernie344

bernie344

Well-Known Member
Umbra40 said:
Got around to doing a slurry test last night. Survey says.... Tds for the soil is 240ppm. Seems like I was wrong and they might be real under fed. Maybe the fert is old, I read the directions wrong, or I'm just plain not giving them enough. I'm going to try feeding them more and see where that gets me.
Click to expand...
Scroll down this page to the conversion table.
My meter is Eutech 640ppm.
whats yours?

EC to TDS Conversion | Hydro-Gardens

hydro-gardens.com hydro-gardens.com
 
T

trambles

Well-Known Member
Are they always droopy like that? They look either over or under watered? Plants that big and only feeding 240ppm is way too low. U should be running 800ppm
 
U

Umbra40

Member
bernie344 said:
Scroll down this page to the conversion table.
My meter is Eutech 640ppm.
whats yours?

EC to TDS Conversion | Hydro-Gardens

hydro-gardens.com hydro-gardens.com
Click to expand...
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I used a relatively inexpensive hm digital tds 4. I also purchased another relatively inexpensive hm digital tds 3, which I believe takes the temperature into account. I also bought calibration fluid. Without the fluid and second meter i suppose my readings could be way off, but now I have the means to check.

Per their website, both meters list EC-to-TDS Conversion Factor: NaCl (avg. 0.5). So now I have two values I can utilize, which makes it much more flexible for charts and guides. It also illustrates how the tds value alone can be misleading.
trambles said:
Are they always droopy like that? They look either over or under watered? Plants that big and only feeding 240ppm is way too low. U should be running 800ppm
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They've been droopy like that for awhile. I let them dry out between waterings. Usually that's about every three days, but I recently doubled the pot size so it's been longer. I don't think it's underwatering. It could be overwatering, but I'm hoping it's not. It's 2:1 potting soil to perlite to let it breathe.

Seems like the consensus is underfeeding. Going by the directions on the back of the grow big, big bloom, and cal mag bottles alone seem to be ineffective.
 
U

Umbra40

Member
trambles said:
I wouldnt let them "dry out" ever. If they get too dry it will shock them what is your water source?
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I look at them them one or twice a day, if they start to look droopy I lift them up and do the finger check to check that they're feeling light. I don't let them get bone dry to the point where the soil repels water, but I could probably be more observant and.

Water is tap water from the municipal water supply. I wouldn't know what's in it, but I can tell you the tds meter reads 135ppm for it. I just tested the two tds meters against the calibration solution. They were good within 5%. I can calibrate them with a screw at the back, but the solution says it's supposed to be n ppm at 77* Fahrenheit and the room is like 15* cooler. For the record, the grow cabinet is is the low 70s with light on now in the winter.
 
D

DukeFluke

Well-Known Member
Your issue is light stress and temps, not nutrient lockout.

Answer these questions.

What's your ambient air temp lights on and lights off

What is your root zone temp lights on and off

Are they sitting directly on a floor?

How close is your light from the tops and what wattage is it?
 
U

Umbra40

Member
DukeFluke said:
Your issue is light stress and temps, not nutrient lockout.

Answer these questions.

What's your ambient air temp lights on and lights off

What is your root zone temp lights on and off

Are they sitting directly on a floor?

How close is your light from the tops and what wattage is it?
Click to expand...
~75* F on, ~65*F off.

Don't know, but I'm guessing a little lower with lights on and a little warmer with lights off.

Under the pots there's a plastic tray, then a tarp, then a rug, then a wood floor. It's on the second story.

There's 6 quantum strips in a 4x2 frame. Lights are a foot from most of the canopy and 8 inches from the highest tips atm. They're on a dimmer. I'm not sure of the wattage presently. I can clamp the amperage tomorrow, but I'd guess 125 to 150w. It's 33,000 lux at the canopy.
 
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