OFFICIAL CMH THREAD! (Post Your Ceramic Metal Halide Grows, ?'s & Experiences Here!)

[Brick Top]

real world results are good enough for me and my customers. Now,what about my question?

Your username is VICTORYGARDENHYDRO and you said; "I sell and recommend the 400 watt cmh." I thought, GREAT, finally here is someone who will know the product, someone who will be able to explain the questions I have asked about CMH lighting ever since I first read about it. Someone who could, and would, answer the questions that not so much as on other person has been capable of answering and that not so much as one of the NUMEROUS sites that sell CMH bulbs has come close to touching on.

But all you can say is; "real world results are good enough for me and my customers. Now,what about my question?"

That is pathetic. If the product was half as good as you claim it to be the manufacturers would flood you with info so you could explain in detail precisely what makes it so good.

Instead, all that is seen is claims and a highly misleading side by side comparison of the light spectrum of CMH and HPS and ONLY HPS, which is an intentional act to deceive. It leaves out the MH spectrum that most growers use for the vegetative state.

If that side by side comparison was honest it would compare CMH to both MH and HPS so people could see what they would get if they only used CMH and what they would get if they instead stuck with the traditional MH and then HPS combination. It would also include Chlorophyll A and Chlorophyll B and the various pigments light absorption charts so people could then look at the CMH wavelength/spectrum chart and the MH and HPS wavelength/spectrum chart and compare using either CMH or MH and then HPS will give Chlorophyll A and Chlorophyll B and the various pigments more wavelength/spectrum at the stages of growth that each will need and use it the most.

But that is not shown and you, someone who said; "I sell and recommend" them doesn't have the slightest clue about.

The more people I ask and the more sites I look on and cannot find answers the more I am forced to believe that CMH is just another gimmick being sold to growers by just saying 'IT'S THE BEST.' It probably has a lower purchase cost and a higher markup so it is more profitable to sell, so naturally someone like you would push them to the max and tell people that they are the greatest thing since the invention of sliced bread.

 

[Brick Top]

I will never go back to using only hps.

Using HPS and only HPS was a growing error from day one. But that is what CMH is compared to, a growing error, and not against using MH for the vegetative growth stage and HPS during the flowering growth stage.

It's pretty easy to make something look good when you compare it to an error and with it being a broad wavelength/spectrum bulb it naturally should outperform using only a HPS from seedling to harvest, even though much of the wavelength/spectrum it puts off is almost a virtual waste, largely wavelength/spectrum that plants either hardly use at all or do not use at all.

But that does not mean a CMH would outperform using a high quality proper wavelength/spectrum MH for the vegetative growth stage and then using a high quality proper wavelength/spectrum HPS for the flowering growth stage.

The way CMH is advertised, and pushed by those who sell it, is like comparing two professional sports teams, but for one of those teams you give all the stats and information on and for the other you only give half the stats and information on it.

IF CMH was as kick-ass as it allegedly is they would be compared to the use of the highest quality proper wavelength/spectrum MH for the vegetative growth stage and then using the highest quality proper wavelength/spectrum HPS for the flowering growth stage, and then compare both CMH and MH and then HPS wavelength/spectrum absorption rates for Chlorophyll A and Chlorophyll B and the various pigments during the different stages of growth. But that is not the comparison that is made, is it?

Doesn't that make anyone else wonder and want to ask, why?

 

[Brick Top]

Hey Brick Top, I'm sure you are right that the Philips MasterColor CMH dose produce some (how much I don't know) wasted light in spectrum's the plant doesn't use, I believe this is because the bulb is manufactured for interior/exterior & security lighting and not for growing,

That makes sense.

 

[Brick Top]

The philips mastercolor is for warehouse lighting.

Again, that makes sense.

 

[roachclip420]

Using HPS and only HPS was a growing error from day one. But that is what CMH is compared to, a growing error, and not against using MH for the vegetative growth stage and HPS during the flowering growth stage.

It's pretty easy to make something look good when you compare it to an error and with it being a broad wavelength/spectrum bulb it naturally should outperform using only a HPS from seedling to harvest, even though much of the wavelength/spectrum it puts off is almost a virtual waste, largely wavelength/spectrum that plants either hardly use at all or do not use at all.

But that does not mean a CMH would outperform using a high quality proper wavelength/spectrum MH for the vegetative growth stage and then using a high quality proper wavelength/spectrum HPS for the flowering growth stage.

I ment I will never use only hps in flower. I veg with t5's and bud with cmh and led. I have way less heat, higher yields, and higher quality buds. I don't know the science behind it but I do know I have experienced improvements personally since searching for a larger spectrum and switching from hps.

 

[dapio]

Read this thread before I knock out for bed and came to a conclusion bricktop needs to enter the field of criminal defense haha, you are good at discredibility I still ponder that post u made on the dutch masters and how there are no true indicas anymore I piss off my idiot buddies by trying to mimic the explanation lol.

 

[C.Indica]

Just ignore Bricktop,
he looks for drama on rollitup because he can't interact with society due to grow secrecy.
It's quite sad.


The bottom left two charts are EYE Hortilux Daylight MH, 1000w & 250w, respectively.
All other information is for Philips CMH

 

[Brick Top]

Read this thread before I knock out for bed and came to a conclusion bricktop needs to enter the field of criminal defense haha, you are good at discredibility I still ponder that post u made on the dutch masters and how there are no true indicas anymore I piss off my idiot buddies by trying to mimic the explanation lol.

You have that wrong .... I never said there were no true indicas anymore. I said that real true pure sativas have gotten very difficult to find, largely because indicas are more marketable, but not because they are better, and that most of the claimed landrace sativas offered today are not what they are claimed.


Oh .... and when young I had people pushing me in two directions, one to be a writer and the other to become an attorney, a defense attorney. Instead I became a car dealer and then a boat dealer .... and did well. Maybe not as well as I might have had I become a writer or a defense attorney, but I'm satisfied with having been able to retire at the age of 49.

 

[Brick Top]

what is pathetic is your return to riu after your big thread about leaving,

I did leave, but only for about three weeks. I came back, but not intending to post, only instead to continue to help several people who I have been in contact with in PMs about their grows.

But then I made the mistake of reading a few threads and I saw people like you making claims that they cannot substantiate in any way, they cannot give factual reasons why what they claim to be true should be believed, and I was hooked.

It was sort of like "Michael Corleone" said; "Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in."


I guess it was pathetic to return with intentions of only helping people that relied on me.


Though not as pathetic as you, someone who sells growing equipment and doesn't have the vaguest idea about it or plants and can only claim it works.

you seem to keep ignoring my question.

I had hopes of getting a straight answer out of you before becoming sidetracked, but since I have learned that you don't have a clue, well, go ahead, ask me again whatever it is you asked and I did not reply to.

I did my best to explain to you REAL WORLD RESULTS, I recommend it and sell it BECAUSE IT WORKS.

You could never have held a position in any of my businesses, not thinking you could get by with a total lack of knowledge and believing that all it would take would be to tell people that; "it works."

I don't make very much selling this bulb,so there goes your theory.

I was talking percentage of markup, not total gross profit per sale.

and it's victory gardenS hydro and what my name has to do with my lighting knowledge means nothing.

Sorry I missed the 'S' in your name. But the reason I mentioned it is to point out that you work at, or own, a hydro store, and you don't know your products, you cannot explain the how and why. You can only make claims and then hope people believe you and accept it.

your name is brick top, so I should assume you know how to put the top brick on a wall? REALLY????

You did say you sell the bulbs and that you recommended them and when you combine that with what appears to be a hydro store name that adds up to something totally different than the name of a character in a Guy Ritchie comedy.

 

[Brick Top]

Just ignore Bricktop,
he looks for drama on rollitup because he can't interact with society due to grow secrecy.
It's quite sad.

How amusing. What did you use to divine that knowledge out of thin air, a Ouija Board? Was it a crystal ball? How about Tarot cards, did you use them? Did you read tea leaves? Or did you rely on the good old standby, Magic 8-Ball to tell you all about me and my life?

 

[HiloReign]

How amusing. What did you use to divine that knowledge out of thin air, a Ouija Board? Was it a crystal ball? How about Tarot cards, did you use them? Did you read tea leaves? Or did you rely on the good old standby, Magic 8-Ball to tell you all about me and my life?

Judging by this thread you need a life and I don't need a Magic 8-Ball, Ouija Board, crystal ball, Tarot Cards or even tea-leaves to tell me that.

 

[Brick Top]

Sorry brick top, Your not gonna get me to cry like you did and run away, I can take whatever "shots" you want to take at me, Your just mad because I called you out.

I always get a kick out of how incorrectly people read me. I am not mad. I am anything but mad.

And as for you're attempting to make a big deal about my saying I was leaving and then coming back. Well, I also in part did it, return that is, in hopes of getting something done, something not normally done here, and have tried, three or four times, to talk potroast into doing. If you want to ask him about it, be my guest. Copy and paste this portion of this message into a PM to rollitup and he will be able to see that I am Kool and the Gang with him telling you ... and that is part of why I am here ... it is in hope of getting something that I would like very, very much before going for good. Had he agreed when I asked, we would never have had this exchange because I would be gone.

Your looking for anything to get me to Take my ball and go home,LIKE YOU DID.

You so misread my intentions. I have been trying to find someone, ANYONE, who could answer the questions I have about CMH bulbs ever since I first read about them. But just like you, no one can, or maybe it is more of a case of no one wants to because it would be telling a secret that they don't want known about CMH bulbs. But that is all I wanted. For some reason you got your thong twisted in a knot and got all personal ... so then I thought it might be fun to return the favor.

So, type away old man, You may think you pulled your tail out from between your legs, but I see the truth.

What truth do you see? You don't even know the product that you recommend and sell well enough to answer simple questions about it, but somehow you believe that you can delve into my life and my mind and; "see the truth" about me? That's funny!

forgot to mention all the respect I lost for you when I read that huge Goodbye thread.HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh my, I am just so hurt now that I know that a moron who cannot even answer simple questions about the products he sells has lost respect for me! Damn! I mean, after all, gaining your respect and the respect of everyone else here is the only reason I joined in the first place, and now it has all been for naught. What will I do, oh what will I do? I am so distraught I can hardly keep from crying ..... from laughter at your ignorance of what you push onto people claiming it's great, but do not know enough about to be able to answer a simple question.

 

[Brick Top]

Judging by this thread you need a life and I don't need a Magic 8-Ball, Ouija Board, crystal ball, Tarot Cards or even tea-leaves to tell me that.

You, and most people here, would blow the Devil at high noon in the middle of Time Square if in return they could trade places with me.

 

[CEEJR]

I sell and recommend the 400 watt cmh, I have customers that veg with it, some have flowered with it. the heat is very minimal, but the plants love the spectrum.

So the heats not as brutal as a regular MH?

 

[elenor.rigby]

dont include me in those thoughts please..

You, and most people here, would blow the Devil at high noon in the middle of Time Square if in return they could trade places with me.

 

[BlueB]

This thread is rather amusing. I've used HPS, MH blue, CMH, etc. etc.
I will give you my real world results. From the tests I've done, I've found that not all strains prefer the same balance of wavelengths. Some prefer more blue heavy during veg, some more red heavy during veg. During flower, your lighting should be quite a bit heavier in the red zone. It should be noted that the way a plant responds to a light source has more to do with the balance of Red and Blue wavelengths. I tried the CMH stand alone with poor results with one strain, and okay results with another. I wouldn't say it's better than HPS or MH, it's more like a combination of both. The thing is, CMH bulbs emit a pure white light, which means there is equal blue, green, and red light being emitted. That's why buds, when grown under CMH, are usually quite a bit leafier. In order to have a proper flowering cycle, it's important to be red heavy. Again, it's all about the appropriate balance of wavelengths. 6:1 is the optimal red to blue ratio during flower. That means there should be 6 times more red than blue.

Someone said that they get even better results when CMH is mixed with HPS. The reason for this is that the HPS makes the light more balanced on the red side. Yes, HPS emits a yellow light mostly, but yellow is on the red side of the spectrum. Therefore, plants will adapt to use the yellow light as if it were red, just not very well.

As far as the terpenes go, I believe they are released when UVb light enters the sphere on the trichome and hits the disc-cell. There is limited information on this theory, but since UVb light is the only type of light that can penetrate the sphere, I am a believer. I would say this is why buds are so much better when grown outdoor. People are finding out more and more that terpenes influence the medicinal aspect of cannabis almost equal to that of THC. Sometimes I feel like buds that are grown under HPS lighting consist mainly of THC and not enough of the other stuff, such as terpenes. I live for the terpenes. Thats where the flavor is, the smell, the uniqueness. I've also noticed I get a lot higher, and get more pain relief from a bud grown outside from the same strain that was grown indoor even if the outdoor bud looks like crap compared to the indoor bud. I know there are other factors that influence other than UVb, such as environment, age, etc.

Getting back to the CMH. I would never use one of these bulbs as my sole light source again. They just don't have the proper spectrum balance. I think they do produce a fair amount of UVb if I'm not mistaken. So this being said, they have an edge on HPS stand alone. But that can be easily fixed by adding some UVb reptile bulbs to your HPS grow.
HPS will always grow bigger buds than a CMH, or MH because the HPS is red heavy. (yellow) The spectrum of the HPS is balanced on the red side at 6:1 red/blue.

The optimal grow, I think, would come from a Hortilux Blue 250w combined with 250w (or around there) of 645-670nm of red LEDs. This way you get a healthy amount of blue, with the correct proportions of red, and still get the much needed UVb if I'm not mistaken. Hopefully I worded everything correctly here. LOL

Edit: The red led's would be dimmable so that you could turn them down during veg, then crank them up during flower. Then you wouldn't need to change any bulbs out the entire grow.

 

[SativaMe@420]

OK OK people, lets all play nice now,..... Please understand that Brick Top doesn't mean to offend anyone (unless you offend him) he's just a zealous person with an argumentative nature and an attention to detail, he's the kind of person you either work with or avoid because he won't quit, will you Brick Top, LOL! Look, I've heard from several experienced growers who say that switching to CMH was one of the best things they ever did for there grows, Increased yeild, resin production, potency, flavor, smell, regardless of wasted spectrum/energy they must be doing something right. So far Ive only heard one experienced grower say they were unimpressed with CMH and who knows for sure it was the CMH that caused the bad results for him, it could have been several other factors. To truly settle this once and for all someone will have to do some controlled comparisons, two identical grows with the only variable being CMH for one and HPS for the other, unfortunately I don't have the means to conduct these tests or I would for sure so until someone steps up for the sake of science we'll just have to keep arguing I guess, lol.

 

[Brick Top]

do this math

x= your ball
y=brick top

y takes x home crying and insulting everyone on the way out.
y figures out he has no life without the drama he creates on riu
y comes up with some B.S. story so he can come back to the playground
y then tries to get others to play in his game.
z=others
by my calculations,
z don't give a shit what you think.

Impressive, very impressive. You exhibited both great imagination and yet once again showcased your complete and utter ignorance both at the very same time. Bra-fucking-vo!

 

[Brick Top]

OK OK people, lets all play nice now,..... Please understand that Brick Top doesn't mean to offend anyone (unless you offend him) he's just a zealous person with an argumentative nature and an attention to detail, he's the kind of person you either work with or avoid because he won't quit, will you Brick Top, LOL!

Sure, I will quit .... but only after having a great deal of fun giving the other person enough rope to hang themselves with and have allowed them to prove to everyone else that they are the Beavis or Butthead I said they are.

Then I quit, my work is done and I see no reason to spike the ball.

The little clown shoe who has been dancing around the CMH issue is a perfect example of the type I am writing about. I do not know if he owns or manages or just works at a hydro store, but he says he sells CMH bulbs and that he doesn't earn much profit on them, which would lead most anyone to the assumption that he is a store owner/operator.

His well showcased ignorance is the perfect example of why so often we see threads where someone says how some hydro store person steered them wrong or the person mentions the advice they were given by a hydro store person, and it is absolutely terrible incorrect advice.

I asked him a question that should have been simple for anyone to answer if they know the product they are selling. He didn't have a clue. One reason I kept asking and pushing was to see if he would find out, if he would research or ask the manufacturer or consult a botanist or something so he could both learn what he should have already known and no longer look like a dumb-ass. He didn't do it. Instead he went after me on a personal level.

I posted graphs of the wavelength/spectrum absorption rate during different stages of growth for Chlorophyll A, Chlorophyll B and the various pigments. He didn't mention that at all. I would be willing to bet almost anything that the only thing he's ever heard of is Chlorophyll, but never Chlorophyll A, Chlorophyll B and the various pigments, let alone knowing what their absorption rate of different wavelength/spectrum at different stages of growth.

He clearly falls into the category of those who own or work at hydro stores, or even dispensaries, who the instant they become involved in the line of work deem themselves to be all-knowing experts on plants and growing, when in fact they don't know dick.

I am sure that the bubble-gummer customers and the Beavis and Butthead customers that he slick talks into purchasing his gimmick CMH bulbs gobble up his, they're great, 100% of people who use them love them, bullshit. But when you are dealing with someone who has grown since 1972 he would have to be able to do a whole Hell of a lot better than just saying, they work. He would have to be capable of thoroughly explaining to me how and why they allegedly are better, which would of course mean he would need not only total knowledge about CMH bulbs but equal knowledge about every manufacturers MH and HPS bulbs.

Combine that with the fact that when it came to selling Lincoln - Mercury's and Crest pontoon boats I was the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be, and I did not employ anyone who was not extremely talented when it comes to sales and extremely knowledgeable about not only our products but also those we were selling against. After seeing how little knowledge he believes is important to have about the products he sells, I wouldn't have hired him to wash cars or clean boats for me, though possibly I would have hired him as a marine petroleum distribution engineer. In other words, I might have allowed him to pump gas at the gas dock. Maybe.

 

[SativaMe@420]

OK, regardless of who's right or who's wrong either you guys start playing nice or I'm kicking you out of MY thread, I started this thread to compile info on CMH not start a F-ing Jerry Springer Forum, either share information and help each other or stay out of this thread, sorry but I'm getting kinda tired of the cockamamie bullshit.