Once and for all.. L.E.D or H.I.D ??!

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I read the link before I responded to you. That's why I said ''I contemplated'' what you said in the following posts. As I continued to point out with various questions, the issue I have is your interpretation of the facts provided by the link. Judging by the amount of likes the post got then others clearly see the same contradictions. So either I and they are wrong (very possible) and you need to elaborate on the questions I asked so we can learn why, or, you have indeed misinterpreted the facts you draw from. If you are right and I have misunderstood your points, then I apologise, again. But we are not going to get to that point unless you put down some answers.

You are the only person around here I end up becoming toxic with, think about that. I only post for factual advice too or from, could not give a flying fuck about rep.

I never have a cycle renewal with ought a change of some sort, even if it's a small logistical change for lower labour requirement. So with that, no, I have not got blinkers on when it comes to learning.

I've been here a while but I don't think of myself as a senior or highly experienced. At the same time, I can offer good enough advice (usually first hand) so that anybody with less experience than me will benefit, that's what knowledge is for. The longer this goes on, your refusal to answer specifics, the more it appears you actually don't know anything. But notice how even now, after months of you making claims then hiding from specifics, I'm still trying to get you to elaborate. That's because maybe you do have something to learn me?..

Honestly, no toxicity meant here, I don't think I've learned anything from you. That's not a bias issue since other posters around here in the past who I don't like (no names required) have still learnt me something.. as I said, it's not about ''rep''. I do genuinely wish you'd stop being a prick and start answering and elaborating on things.
Some people just need to be on ignore, so you can focus on those who are willing to have a constructive discussion.

Having grown with nearly every light out there from incandescent to custom built water cooled LED, I feel like I have a solid grasp of the ups and downs of each of them. I welcome the opportunity to discuss them and their present and future potential for indoor cultivation.
 

gwheels

Well-Known Member
I dont know whats going on but for some reason i want to buy more quantum boards...in 3k

Whats weird with the quantum boards and strips (or samsung or wtf you want to call them) is dialing in nutes with coco and an LED and magnesium and calcium. Calmag is less than ideal. I think I will try a foliar spray with epsom salts 1 tsp per 2 quarts...

When you get that right....they do pretty well.

My GG4 and king tut look really weird short and bushy....can't wait to see what happens in flower.

I grow for me.
 

NanoGadget

Well-Known Member
There is definitely a bit of an adjustment with 'white' LED if you are coming from HPS. I was upping my calcium and magnesium as well when i first ran them because my plants seemed deficient. Once i figured out that i had to run my room (ambient air temps) warmer under my QBs the cal/mag deficiencies seemed to pretty much clear up.
 

NoWaistedSpace

Well-Known Member
I dont know whats going on but for some reason i want to buy more quantum boards...in 3k

Whats weird with the quantum boards and strips (or samsung or wtf you want to call them) is dialing in nutes with coco and an LED and magnesium and calcium. Calmag is less than ideal. I think I will try a foliar spray with epsom salts 1 tsp per 2 quarts...

When you get that right....they do pretty well.

My GG4 and king tut look really weird short and bushy....can't wait to see what happens in flower.

I grow for me.
I find that VPD comes more into play with the "new tech".(That 3 letter word)
Restricts or increases the nutrient uptake in your plants. Once you understand it, it helps with these "deficiencies". This is only my "personal" opinion.
 

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Some people just need to be on ignore, so you can focus on those who are willing to have a constructive discussion.

Having grown with nearly every light out there from incandescent to custom built water cooled LED, I feel like I have a solid grasp of the ups and downs of each of them. I welcome the opportunity to discuss them and their present and future potential for indoor cultivation.
The main reason I don't ignore him is because some of his views and advice would end up in a newb losing an entire crop ''you don't ever need to worry about humidity'' is an example of a statement that really needed to be shot down. Imagine you were a newb in a high rh country reading that kinda thing, no need for a $£300+ hue? ''excellent''.

Well, suppose I better ask you a related question. Is the level of UV in cmh even helpful? if not, is adding some uv a good idea?. Last time I read into this it was a bit of a stalemate in yes or no.
 

Flowki

Well-Known Member
There is definitely a bit of an adjustment with 'white' LED if you are coming from HPS. I was upping my calcium and magnesium as well when i first ran them because my plants seemed deficient. Once i figured out that i had to run my room (ambient air temps) warmer under my QBs the cal/mag deficiencies seemed to pretty much clear up.
I find that VPD comes more into play with the "new tech".(That 3 letter word)
Restricts or increases the nutrient uptake in your plants. Once you understand it, it helps with these "deficiencies". This is only my "personal" opinion.
There is definitely a bit of an adjustment with 'white' LED if you are coming from HPS. I was upping my calcium and magnesium as well when i first ran them because my plants seemed deficient. Once i figured out that i had to run my room (ambient air temps) warmer under my QBs the cal/mag deficiencies seemed to pretty much clear up.
What you should also consider is that the root temps were getting too low under the new tech than with hps. If it drops below 60, maybe even 65 then magnesium will not do very well, if I recall. I know this because of a personal set back that went away soon after realising. The mag/cal amount has not changed for me from hps to cob and all is completely fine, no defs ever, with 70f root zone temps.

Although the above could be part of it, likely not the whole story. Perhaps you guys were not running quite enough calcium or mag with hps or that I was actually running slightly too much.
 

UncleReemis

Well-Known Member
I'll bite.

Scientifically, LED is superior to HID growing in every way, aside from specific applications that demand otherwise (like vertical growing in a closed ring with a center bulb; easier to achieve with HID I suppose if you're unable to custom build LED fixtures).

Scientifically.

I guess if you're on a super strict budget, or just simply unwilling to invest in something clearly superior, or maybe you want to re-repurpose them as street lights in a few years, then HID may be for you?

Also, the whole "I don't wanna spend eight billion dollars on LED tech" argument is so freaking redundant it's insane. Price out a custom build for an honest LED equivalent of your HID; you'll likely see that the difference in cost isn't asking for your kidney, although more costly.
Next, the "I have cheap power" and "I don't care about my electricity consumption" argument. This is stupid. If you can afford to not care about your electric bill, then you shouldn't pretend that you cannot afford to invest in an LED build. And even if you have cheap power, you're still being wasteful. Even if it is "yours" to waste, you're still being a bit of a fuck about it.

Lastly, you should support the tech that not only is superior in function, but is better for the planet.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I dont know whats going on but for some reason i want to buy more quantum boards...in 3k

Whats weird with the quantum boards and strips (or samsung or wtf you want to call them) is dialing in nutes with coco and an LED and magnesium and calcium. Calmag is less than ideal. I think I will try a foliar spray with epsom salts 1 tsp per 2 quarts...

When you get that right....they do pretty well.

My GG4 and king tut look really weird short and bushy....can't wait to see what happens in flower.

I grow for me.
Use epsom salt for mag. Dissolve it into water separately, then add to your res. You'll get sulphur too, both of which really help the resulting product.
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
I'll bite.

Scientifically, LED is superior to HID growing in every way, aside from specific applications that demand otherwise (like vertical growing in a closed ring with a center bulb; easier to achieve with HID I suppose if you're unable to custom build LED fixtures).

Scientifically.

I guess if you're on a super strict budget, or just simply unwilling to invest in something clearly superior, or maybe you want to re-repurpose them as street lights in a few years, then HID may be for you?

Also, the whole "I don't wanna spend eight billion dollars on LED tech" argument is so freaking redundant it's insane. Price out a custom build for an honest LED equivalent of your HID; you'll likely see that the difference in cost isn't asking for your kidney, although more costly.
Next, the "I have cheap power" and "I don't care about my electricity consumption" argument. This is stupid. If you can afford to not care about your electric bill, then you shouldn't pretend that you cannot afford to invest in an LED build. And even if you have cheap power, you're still being wasteful. Even if it is "yours" to waste, you're still being a bit of a fuck about it.

Lastly, you should support the tech that not only is superior in function, but is better for the planet.

What about the argument for the heat the bulbs bring in a cold environment?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
The main reason I don't ignore him is because some of his views and advice would end up in a newb losing an entire crop ''you don't ever need to worry about humidity'' is an example of a statement that really needed to be shot down. Imagine you were a newb in a high rh country reading that kinda thing, no need for a $£300+ hue? ''excellent''.

Well, suppose I better ask you a related question. Is the level of UV in cmh even helpful? if not, is adding some uv a good idea?. Last time I read into this it was a bit of a stalemate in yes or no.
Adding a UVB source is potentially a good idea. BE SAFE; turn the lamp off of you'll be near it for any length of time, NEVER go near it or even look at it without eye protection. Macular degeneration sucks.

CMH is not a good UV source, nor is any other HID besides mercury vapor. Use UV tuned florescent instead.

Be careful to harden your plants off to it gently or you will fry them.
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Insulate your grow space.

Flow through ventilation and shared hvac with house. The radiant heat exhausted saves about 500 gallons of propane per year.

We have been through this before.

Also hps stuff is half price all over. Just got 2 solis tech ballasts shipped for $211. And in 4 more years of bulb replacement i still wont have paid enough for a comparable led set up.
 

Jefferson1977

Well-Known Member
I dont know whats going on but for some reason i want to buy more quantum boards...in 3k

Whats weird with the quantum boards and strips (or samsung or wtf you want to call them) is dialing in nutes with coco and an LED and magnesium and calcium. Calmag is less than ideal. I think I will try a foliar spray with epsom salts 1 tsp per 2 quarts...

When you get that right....they do pretty well.

My GG4 and king tut look really weird short and bushy....can't wait to see what happens in flower.

I grow for me.
3k QBs work great for me. Half the power of my HPS and the results are basically identical and even better with the LED in some cases. I've already paid for them over 1 year of continuous flowering on my hydro bills and bulbs alone. So for the next 10 years of 12/12 (50,000 hr lifetime of the driver) they are free and no bulb or driver changes. Sweet!
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Flow through ventilation and shared hvac with house. The radiant heat exhausted saves about 500 gallons of propane per year.

We have been through this before.

Also hps stuff is half price all over. Just got 2 solis tech ballasts shipped for $211. And in 4 more years of bulb replacement i still wont have paid enough for a comparable led set up.
Then you have other criteria than reducing energy use in your grow space.

Not bashing, just pointing it out.
 

NoWaistedSpace

Well-Known Member
This is a balance issue.

Warmer air temps for LED is very good advice.
You can change your "air temps" simply by switching a fan from high to low will raise your air temps.
Example, I run "passive" heatsinks. Normally have a fan on them for redundancy. It's 9 degrees out, my "leaf temps" were between 50 and 55 degrees. Turned my fan off of them and was able to raise my "leaf temps" to 65 to 67 degrees in an hr. I have my Vero's dimmed way down. All I got to do is crank them up until I reach the temps I want. I know I have the advantage of being able to adjust my light intensity. Sorry, but you can't with HID. The whole point is to compress that light in that bulb, and when you dim an HID bulb, you suffer tremendously. I would never use that feature.
 
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hillbill

Well-Known Member
I have ducted air ifrom room vent with dryer vent tubing for heat and A/C and just stick a towel in the end to close when not wanted. Gotta keep the soil mix comfortably warm.
 
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