MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
Use 1/2 gram per gallon of water. You will also want to foliar feed if you have yellowing...
Peat Moss+ EWC (Soil Analysis)
- Thread starter The3rdMan
- Start date
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
Amazing info cheers buddy!
Ive suspected it was Mn as all the other elements are in check. It wasn’t until I got my water test back and it read 7:1 ratio of Fe to Mn. This in time I believe was causing antagonistic issues with Mn.
Then seeing this report and noting how low Mn is solidified my suspicions. My soil mix is very similar.
Peat, EWC 10%, compost 10%, dol lime and rock dust.
Thanks again for the info!!
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
Should the foliar ratio be the same? 1/2 gram per gal?
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
You can bump up the foliar spray as long as you don't get build up on the leaves. That will cause spots also.
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
Thanks man. Hopefully the soil applications will be enough.
I’m planing on giving one does before stretch. And another around mid flower.
myke
Well-Known Member
Hope all is well with you,hows the greenhouse?
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
If you have yellowing, it's too late, you need to foliar feed. The reason is that it's a immobile nutrient and foliar feeding is the only way to get Mn to the leaf. I don't like spraying plants, but this is the one exception. If you have LABS, that is a good cleansing spray too. Get the problem under control before flower and you shouldn't have to spray. If that time ever comes, you can hold a rag in your hand while spraying fan leaves so that you don't have run off. Good luck!
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
I'm still clearing land and about to rent a bulldozer. I have a friend that has an operator license, so this should work out. I've been sitting on a down payment for my greenhouse for a while now, but it took a couple of months to get my commercial license. The first time that we applied, we were denied. Thanks for asking!!!
myke
Well-Known Member
Well I hope it all works out,glad to see you around here.Still using the Sips?
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
Here is a little article about Mn that really changed my way of thinking about it. There are a couple of ideas on there that really stuck out. #1- Soil high in organic matter will ALWAYS lockout Mn. It really doesn't explain why and I'm very interested in finding out. #2- All of the professionals suggest chelating micronutrients, and that's what I've always done, but with Mn def it will make the deficiency worse. That really blew my mind. I was trying to fix Mn problems by adding humic acid to my water. Sometimes, it helps. Other times, it makes Mn applications not as effective. However, you can chelate foliar sprays w/o problems because you don't have to worry about soil forming bonds and locking it out. http://corn.agronomy.wisc.edu/Management/pdfs/a2526.pdf
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
I moved them outside because I'm using my indoor space to pheno hunt. Yes, SIPs are better but I could only do 8 plants in my 15'x6' area. I'm doing square 8gal pots for the time being until I find some fire genetics and I can get about 40 plants with square pots.. I'm running a lot of Bodhi seeds right now and I'm about to pop a couple of packs of Chem 4 x '88G13/HP. I've been running his Purple unicorn crosses, but they are missing a little something so I'm trying something that I'm sure will work. Not many people in Oklahoma are running stinky OG kush crosses, so I'll be bringing something different to the table.
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
I actually gave my plant a sponge bath of Epsom salts figuring it was magnesium def lol did nothing as it was Mn related.
Noted on the foliar! 1gram per gallon be ok?
Very interesting read! I see how only 6% organic matter and a high pH can induce problems. Also being over saturated and too many microbes cause issues! Soil is so damn complex lol
Thanks for the help, much appreciated!
Also on a side note, I think stopping the use of my root stim during mid flower is causing issues. Reason being it’s high in micronutrients and I was cutting it out around week 5. Then the problems showed week 6 etc.
So I’m going to run it half strength until last couple weeks.
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
The easiest fix would be to use Big 6 from Build a Soil. However, it's kinda sloppy because it's likely that you will raise other micronutrients to toxic levels before fixing Mn problems. I have Big 6 on hand, so I would do 1 application of Big 6 followed up by Mn Sulfate alone. I started using rain water and micro dosing Mn sulfate with every watering. Smaller amounts but more often is what I mean. I use 6 grams of Mn sulfate in 55gal of water... Just curious, what soil test are you using? Also, your sodium is through the roof. If you are having plants that look thirst even if you watered them, it's a sodium problem. My plants usually grow through the problem, but it takes a little while. Kelp is usually the main culprit. Kelp will also raise your arsenic levels and can make you fail heavy metal testing on your bud. I find kelp to be useless unless you are outdoors. Sodium is horrible on germination issues too. I wouldn't dare pop any expensive seeds in your mix, just a thought...
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
You can run MUCH higher than 1 gram per gallon, but I feed it with EVERY watering. As noted above, Mn usually forms bonds and locked out of organic soil. 6% organic matter is good for an outdoor grow in the ground, but my soil tests between 40%-60% organic matter and I'm using peat based mix. If you are trying to fix a Mn problem in the soil, you could run 6grams per gallon. I got that measurement from Big-6, which is basically TM-7 w/o iron and double Mn. Dr. Faust of BioAg made the mix specifically for Build a Soil(BAS) and Jeremy Silva runs Coots mix which is very popular on here. The directions for TM-7 say 6 grams per gallon and that's good for fixing the problem, but I dial back to 1G/Gal for regular watering. Again, I have RO and Rainwater so I get to add my own micronutrients. My well water is 450ppm and is rich in Mg and Na, which is not helping me at all lol...
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
This is why I microdose with every watering. For example, I can feed with Mn sulfate and send my soil to get tested and it will still show low in Mn. It's easy to want to over do it, but then you will cause problems especially if you adding it to a plant. You can be more heavy handed if you are not planted in the soil, but adding too much will cause problems. I never had luck using Big-6 and TM-7, but I think that has something to do with the application rates. On established plants, you don't really want to do hit them hard. i don't exactly know what it does, but the plants don't respond very well. They will look like crap and recover later and look better than ever, but there is a 2 week window where everything looks like crap. I'm talking about 6grams per gallon of Big-6 BTW. I've had much better luck with 6 grams of Mn sulfate alone, but I'm still hesitant to go that high unless I know for sure that my plants are yellowing from Mn def. It's a fucking tricky situation, it really is. I had to hire a professional to help me figure it out. Thankfully, I make my own compost and my problems can be recreated on every compost batch. So, I have a good idea of what my soil needs now. However, there is still always one other micronutrient that is out of balance. It's usually Zn or B...
I got some MN (32%) from Amazon. I figured about 1/2-3/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons of soil if you are completely deficient in MN. The sodium is coming from the peat moss and the compost but since I grow organic, I don't think it is enough to be a problem. Soil tests are showing me that I am getting most of my nutrients from compost and EWC and not many other nutrients need to be added.
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
I always have to add micronutrients. If you live in the states, I would suggest the smallest bag of Big-6 from build a soil and use one application. It's very similar to TM-7 but it has double Mn and zero iron. The other way would be to get all of the micronutrients in sulfate form, which is recommended if you are soil testing. I'm still interested in your soil test, which one are you using. I promise that I won't knock you for it, like people have knocked me for soil testing. There was a member on here that called me the devil for using Soil Savvy, thought that I was a salesman or something. Since then, I started using a soil agronomist who has a Doctorate in soil agronomy.
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
Sodium really isn't that big of a problem unless you are getting wilting on established plants or germination issues with seeds... I would suggest greensand too since you are low in K, it's one of the few natural Mn inputs.
I am using MYSOIL; I buy their soil test kits from Amazon, two tests for 55.99.
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
Could you mix a slightly more concentrated form of water/Mn sulphate then add drops of this to your feed?
I’ll start microdosing around late veg/early flower.
For Cu I use old UK copper pennies. Pre 1983 they were made from 98% copper.
For Zn could u soak a zinc nail? Or would that be a mostly unavailable form?