ph an soil

smokeingdog

smokeingdog

Well-Known Member
i was told today that the biobizz all mix soil has a ph of 6.5 whitch i found to be true,a fella also told me to keep it at 6.5 you need to water it with a ph of 6.5,this i dout is true because of salt build up(etc) dose any 1 no if there is any truth in this'to me it sounds a load of crap
 
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GeeJay216

Active Member
I have a question, someone told me I can just use straight perlite for my seedlings. I have them on a heating pad in the dark is this right? If So, my perlite always looks pretty dry like every morning. Should I be watering her this often?
 
bamacheese

bamacheese

Well-Known Member
Adding dolomite lime is that LAST thing you want to do!!!

Lime is great for neutralizing acidic soil, but it does exactly that. Neutralizes acidic soil.

Lime will fix your pH levels to 7.0, it's just how it chemically works. Calcium carbonate will absorb all H+ ions that it is capable of!

The reasons you don't want to do this....

a) Seedlings actually prefer slightly acidic soil (6.5-6.8)

b) Flowering plants prefer acidic soil (6.0)

Check out how nutrients absorb related to soil pH. Look at what you do to your Phosphorous absorption once you hit levels above 6.7!!!!

IMG_0602.jpg

Contrary to popular belief, Phosphorous (P), is essential for seedlings just as it is for flowering plants. P is used in the development of your root system, which is arguably just as important as the development of your plant.

In short....7.0 pH for cannabis = Not optimal
 
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puffdatchronic

Well-Known Member
Actually i use biobizz all mix and the ph it says on the bag is 6.2.

And also, after adding the biobizz grow and bloom the ph of the water always drops to 5.5 and i was ph upping it with baking soda ,but i did a bit of digging online and it seems that ph'ing your feed is not needed in soil.The soils buffers it or something and you would only need to correct it if you were talking about extremes either way.The icing on the cake was a thread i pulled up where a guy had emailed biobizz asking if ph adjustment was required using their products and he had a cut and paste of their reply ,which was no ,basicly.
 
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LordRalh3

Well-Known Member
Anyone that tells you ph adjustment isnt needed should not be listened to. Your soil will NOT magically control your ph for you. If you dont keep it in check you WILL have lockout
 
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puffdatchronic

Well-Known Member
LordRalh3 said:
Anyone that tells you ph adjustment isnt needed should not be listened to. Your soil will NOT magically control your ph for you. If you dont keep it in check you WILL have lockout
Click to expand...
what you basing that on?

I'm basing my advice on info on the manufacturer's website.

FAQ

Storage conditions : temperature and humidity

All Biobizz products should be stored in a dry (low humidity) dark place at room temperature. Product is best kept under 40 Degrees Celsius and above 5 Degrees Celsius.


How long can you keep it open?

Due not containing any preservative Biobizz products are completely natural with only the best organic compounds as ingredients. For this reason we do not recommend to leave bottles unclosed or with the cap.


How long can you keep it closed?

Biobizz products are handmade, natural, organic and GMO free products without preservatives for this reason shelf life is less than factory made chemical fertilizers. The average life of Biobizz products is between 12-24 months when stored correctly.


How long can you keep it mixed with water?

We recommend using the prepared solution within two till tree days due to organic compound, natural ingredients and micro organisms.


How do you balance the PH EC of Biobizz soil/fertilizers?

With Biobizz soils, the EC and pH value do not need to be measured, as should when using a mineral medium. Biobizz organic mediums and nutrients are not made of mineral salts but organic bound elements, which are not measurable. The medium has a natural pH form; this will keep the soil in balance by itself.


Why dont you need to balance the PH?

With Biobizz soils, the EC and pH value do not need to be measured, as should when using a mineral medium. Biobizz organic mediums and nutrients are not made of mineral salts but organic bound elements, which are not measurable. The medium has a natural pH form; this will keep the soil in balance by itself.
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
bamacheese said:
Adding dolomite lime is that LAST thing you want to do!!!


Lime is great for neutralizing acidic soil, but it does exactly that. Neutralizes acidic soil.


Lime will fix your pH levels to 7.0, it's just how it chemically works. Calcium carbonate will absorb all H+ ions that it is capable of!


The reasons you don't want to do this....


a) Seedlings actually prefer slightly acidic soil (6.5-6.


b) Flowering plants prefer acidic soil (6.0)


Check out how nutrients absorb related to soil pH. Look at what you do to your Phosphorous absorption once you hit levels above 6.7!!!!






Contrary to popular belief, Phosphorous (P), is essential for seedlings just as it is for flowering plants. P is used in the development of your root system, which is arguably just as important as the development of your plant.


In short....7.0 pH for cannabis = Not optimal
Click to expand...

Add the lime and just mix your nutes and it will cycle THROUGHOUT the available range as SOIL does in nature...when you add the fertilizer feed water it will drop and the interaction of the anions and cations will fluctuate THROUGHOUT the desired range permitting the plant access to all of it much better than trying to lock it down to a specific ph...for if you look at the chart you will see there is no ONE perfect pH. So feeding with low pH feed water into a lime amended medium will cause a beneficial pH swing throughout the entire availability range freeing up all the elements and salts for the plants uptake...powdered dolomite lime is not super quick acting...tkes a bit of time to do its thing...by the time you water feed again the pH still is rarely 7 PH ...it is usually 6.8 ish...avoid hydrated lime like the plague...also one must bear in mind that most use peat based mediums and peat acidifies during the grow
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg082241593252.html
Phosphorous does NOT promote root growth and that is old inaccurate info http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/4DMG/Garden/Amazing/no.htm Also high P ferts are not desired in container gardening even during flowering as this is a bled over from outdoor agriculture due to the high leaching of P in the soil which does not occur in container gardening
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0412411532471.html

Some of you may recall that I have long maintained that high phosphorus(P) fertilizers are pointless.

I also am a fan of Dyna-Gro fertilizers for container usage.

I was asked recently 'If high P fertilizers are so useless then why does Dyna-Gro make and market them?'

My answer was simply to have a product that people wanted, but that was just my opinion. I decided to ask the company (Dyna-Gro) about this. At first I got a very brief response from a representative that wasn't at all satisfying so I asked that rep to forward my question to someone responsible for deciding what their formulations would be. I ended up getting a response from the CEO. Here it is, I think you will find it interesting.

*******************


You are correct. We market a high P (Liquid Bloom) "believe" they need this. As you have noted, our Foliage-Pro does a great job start to finish. However, it is simpler to give the market what they think they need than to try to reeducate it. There is some evidence to believe that low N helps to convince a plant to stop its vegetative growth and move into its reproductive phase (flowering), but environmental factors are probably more important. P is typically 5th or 6th in order of importance of the six macronutrients. There is little scientific justification for higher P formulas, but marketing does come into play for the vast majority of users who lack any real understanding of plant nutritional requirements. Therefore, the market is flooded with a plethora of snake oil products that provide little benefit and can actually do harm. For example, one exhibitor at a hydroponic trade show had a calcium supplement with 2% calcium derived from calcium chloride. Can you guess what continued application of 2% chloride would do to plants?'\
I hope this answers your question and am sorry for Zina's inaccurate response.
Cordially,
Dave Neal, CEO
Dyna-Gro Nutrition Solutions
2775 Giant Rd.
Richmond, CA 94806
800-Dyna-Gro, Fax: 510-233-0198
[email protected]
www.dyna-gro.com

http://www.growersunderground.com/blog/hydroponics-articles/the-great-phosphorus-myth-exposed

I am a Dynagro user and no AN fan but science is science


I also highly recommend ro water ...


And I have not used my pH pen in years but somehow this is happening







But what do I know? Only that I love to grow and use this plant
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
LordRalh3 said:
Anyone that tells you ph adjustment isnt needed should not be listened to. Your soil will NOT magically control your ph for you. If you dont keep it in check you WILL have lockout
Click to expand...
bullshit...properly amended it does just that...have never seen little gnomes running around my yard with ph up and down,,,and my plants thrive...why? my soil is properly amended...and this is much easier to do in containers...in hydro this statement is accurate due to no buffering in the medium if any is used but not in soil/soiless...see above^^

also in soil / soiless pH is VERY RARELY the problem..it is so much more prevalent that the salts are outta whack proportionately and the cause of lockouts except for when using organically amended soil which is quite out of place indoors and in containers...just the invitation of pests and pathogens alone makes it impractical besides the inability to correct problems effectively

Please people study horticulture and botany to help spread accuracy and truth rather than hype, popular opinion and forum paradigm
 
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puffdatchronic

Well-Known Member
Kite High said:
bullshit...properly amended it does just that...have never seen little gnomes running around my yard with ph up and down,,,and my plants thrive...why? my soil is properly amended...and this is much easier in to do in containers...in hydro this statement is accurate due to no bffering in the medium if any is used but not in soil/soiless...see above^^

also in soil / soiless pH is VERY RARELY the problem..it is so much more prevalent that the salts are outta whack proportionately and the cause of lockouts except for when using organically amended soil which is quite out of place indoors and in containers...just the invitation of pests and pathogens alone makes it impractical besides the inability to correct problems effectively

Please people study horticulture and botany to help spread accuracy and truth rather than hype, popular opinion and forum paradigm
Click to expand...
This is true.Kite high is an experienced grower and he was the one nudged me in the direction of seeing the error in my ways as regards to ph of soil not being a problem.Go ahead and google it ,ph'ing is only for hydro.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
bamacheese said:
Adding dolomite lime is that LAST thing you want to do!!!

Lime is great for neutralizing acidic soil, but it does exactly that. Neutralizes acidic soil.

Lime will fix your pH levels to 7.0, it's just how it chemically works. Calcium carbonate will absorb all H+ ions that it is capable of!

The reasons you don't want to do this....

a) Seedlings actually prefer slightly acidic soil (6.5-6.8)

b) Flowering plants prefer acidic soil (6.0)

Check out how nutrients absorb related to soil pH. Look at what you do to your Phosphorous absorption once you hit levels above 6.7!!!!

View attachment 2530717

Contrary to popular belief, Phosphorous (P), is essential for seedlings just as it is for flowering plants. P is used in the development of your root system, which is arguably just as important as the development of your plant.

In short....7.0 pH for cannabis = Not optimal
Click to expand...
Are you kidding me? Uhhhh, no. Adding dolomite lime doesn't magically make your soil\soiless mix 7.0, that is not "just how it chemically works" at all. If you add way too much dolomite lime your mix could end up with a pH over 7. Calcium carbonate doesn't absorb H+ ions as you say, it does what all carbonates do with H+ ions while dissolved in water and it does effectively neutralize them, supplying minerals in the process. Learn how pH works, please. Now, realize that a hell of a lot goes on in healthy living soil to mineralize nutrients for plants and improve nutrient uptake. How do people think that adding pH Up to fertigation solution for soil is a good thing?

Phosphorous in particular is a heavily bound element in soil. Phosphate ions don't like to stay phosphate ions in soil and they will quickly become locked up in more complex organic compounds that plants cannot absorb. Humic acids can help make P available, and microbes also play a direct role in making P and other elements available within the rhizosphere (where it actually counts). Fungi in particular and mycorrhizal fungi especially, which brings P directly to the plant. All fungi produce phosphatases, the enzyme used to break phosphate ions off of more complex compounds; all fungi additionally produce organic acids, and plants additionally are exchanging H+ for phosphate ions as well as other anions.

I would seriously doubt the pH of a living soil even in a container is homogenous through-out.
 
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LordRalh3

Well-Known Member
Go right ahead and believe that pouring 7.2ph into 6.2ph medium won't change it in the 3-6months of a grow im not gonna argue with stupid.
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
LordRalh3 said:
Go right ahead and believe that pouring 7.2ph into 6.2ph medium won't change it in the 3-6months of a grow im not gonna argue with stupid.
Click to expand...
good ...seeing hows it would be a one person argument and all...and no one ever stated that in the first place
 
Rancho Cucamonga

Rancho Cucamonga

Active Member
Yes, you adjust pH of soil by first, having a good base soil, then by pHing the water/fed going in and checking runoff or soil itself with a proper meter.

For salt build up just do a small flush at 12/12 and then a week or so before harvest. Flushing at harvest is all debated on here even though I live by it but to stick with your question for most soils(not coco) you only need to flush at mid grow, around 12/12 or a few weeks into it.

I use FFOF, and have used Roots Organic, both are nuted well as I assume biobizz is. So if you transplant like I do, once at about day 10-16, then again at day 25-30, and if you veg for 45-60 like I do there is no need to worry about salt buildup as very few nutes were fed to soil because the soil had enough for most of veg. So most of the time I will "water only" hard or flush per say a few weeks into flower before I really begin full strength flowering nutes then again near harvest.

As for dolomite lime as someone mentioned here I used it at 1 TBSP per gallon of soil, BUT, it does not begin to help stabilize pH until late in grow so you must adjust manually. pH is so important to me I check runoff starting at about day 16 or so after first transplant all the way to the last 2 weeks, every other fed/water. But most grows my soil and I master the pH at 6.5 by week 2 of flower. So most of the time I do pH my water/fed at 6.5. Especially near the end of flower if you add dolomite the soil pH will tend to rise so sometimes when I would fed at 6.5 I will have a high runoff of 6.8-7.0, so near the end for me most times I can water/fed at below 6.5, maybe as low as 6.3 and runoff will be 6.6 or higher.

Stay between 6.3-6.8 in soil.

Edit-I just have to add I use to NOT pH my soils while using FoxFarm nutes, EarthJuice nutes and Canna nutes and I had nothing but problems in different types of well balanced soil mixes. My grows have improved over time by keeping my pH in check. This is actual experience, not just talk.
For some like Kite maybe they use a supersoil or a great organic mixed base that doesn't need to be pHed but I have yet to come across such a soil.
I think one of the worst pieces of advice a newbie can receive is someone telling them that pH doesn't matter and you should just allow your soil to do all the work. Just bad advice IMO.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
LordRalh3 said:
Anyone that tells you ph adjustment isnt needed should not be listened to. Your soil will NOT magically control your ph for you. If you dont keep it in check you WILL have lockout
Click to expand...
LOL. Sorry for not replying to you before. But, yeah, my soil has been magically controlling pH for me for the past several years. It isn't magic, tho, it is some combination of dolomitic limestone, soil micro-biology and the plant itself.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
Wow. Alright, this is why I typically only stick to the Organics forum. There is really no salt build-up to speak of in a healthy organic soil.

Rancho Cucamonga said:
Yes, you adjust pH of soil by first, having a good base soil, then by pHing the water/fed going in and checking runoff or soil itself with a proper meter.

For salt build up just do a small flush at 12/12 and then a week or so before harvest. Flushing at harvest is all debated on here even though I live by it but to stick with your question for most soils(not coco) you only need to flush at mid grow, around 12/12 or a few weeks into it.

I use FFOF, and have used Roots Organic, both are nuted well as I assume biobizz is. So if you transplant like I do, once at about day 10-16, then again at day 25-30, and if you veg for 45-60 like I do there is no need to worry about salt buildup as very few nutes were fed to soil because the soil had enough for most of veg. So most of the time I will "water only" hard or flush per say a few weeks into flower before I really begin full strength flowering nutes then again near harvest.

As for dolomite lime as someone mentioned here I used it at 1 TBSP per gallon of soil, BUT, it does not begin to help stabilize pH until late in grow so you must adjust manually. pH is so important to me I check runoff starting at about day 16 or so after first transplant all the way to the last 2 weeks, every other fed/water. But most grows my soil and I master the pH at 6.5 by week 2 of flower. So most of the time I do pH my water/fed at 6.5. Especially near the end of flower if you add dolomite the soil pH will tend to rise so sometimes when I would fed at 6.5 I will have a high runoff of 6.8-7.0, so near the end for me most times I can water/fed at below 6.5, maybe as low as 6.3 and runoff will be 6.6 or higher.

Stay between 6.3-6.8 in soil.

Edit-I just have to add I use to NOT pH my soils while using FoxFarm nutes, EarthJuice nutes and Canna nutes and I had nothing but problems in different types of well balanced soil mixes. My grows have improved over time by keeping my pH in check. This is actual experience, not just talk.
For some like Kite maybe they use a supersoil or a great organic mixed base that doesn't need to be pHed but I have yet to come across such a soil.
I think one of the worst pieces of advice a newbie can receive is someone telling them that pH doesn't matter and you should just allow your soil to do all the work. Just bad advice IMO.
Click to expand...
If starting seeds or planting clones into a bagged mix, dolomite can wait until the next transplants. But there is still no need to pH, whatsoever, if you grow organically. If you use Earth Juice, General Organics or RO you shouldn't be using pH Up drops or whatever and I know for a fact that in the case of Earth Juice and General Organics, the manufacturer explicitly states on the feeding charts and product guides that this is NOT necessary.

Even with Earth Juice, but let me tell you that if you're using Earth Juice and bottled\rain\filtered water you probably need more than 1 tbsp per gallon of dolomite lime. Micronized dolomite limestone is preferable, this refers to the particle size. It doesn't take any time to work; pelletized lime or crushed oyster shell would take some time, but it would also last longer. That is why some people use both. I just use micronized dolomite and Azomite.

I used to check the run-off but don't even do that anymore. I know that everything is absolutely fine. I can't tell you why it didn't work for you, anybody can mix together stuff like Ocean Forest and SAM#4 or coco coir, humus and another 1.5 tbsp of dolomite. Then water. Microbes and plant take care of the rest. The exception is perhaps if your tap water has exceptionally high total dissolved solids and pH due to dissolved minerals (like calcium carbonate).
 
MrStickyScissors

MrStickyScissors

Well-Known Member
your soil is buffered... i would stil ph your water but its not as critical as if you where in water. but yes you will see a build up or a def.
 
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puffdatchronic

Well-Known Member
6 months of a grow.. lol ....what grow would that be exactly? Nev's haze vegged for 2 months.. i think i'll pass on your oppinion and listen to people who know what they're talkin about instead.I don't even need you try and validate your arguement ,if Biobizz state on their website that the soil and feed do not need to be ph'd because the soil does it itself then thats all i need to know.Go ahead and believe you know what your talking about.I couldnt care less if you don't want to accept it.
 
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puffdatchronic

Well-Known Member
Rancho Cucamonga said:
Yes, you adjust pH of soil by first, having a good base soil, then by pHing the water/fed going in and checking runoff or soil itself with a proper meter.

For salt build up just do a small flush at 12/12 and then a week or so before harvest. Flushing at harvest is all debated on here even though I live by it but to stick with your question for most soils(not coco) you only need to flush at mid grow, around 12/12 or a few weeks into it.

I use FFOF, and have used Roots Organic, both are nuted well as I assume biobizz is. So if you transplant like I do, once at about day 10-16, then again at day 25-30, and if you veg for 45-60 like I do there is no need to worry about salt buildup as very few nutes were fed to soil because the soil had enough for most of veg. So most of the time I will "water only" hard or flush per say a few weeks into flower before I really begin full strength flowering nutes then again near harvest.

As for dolomite lime as someone mentioned here I used it at 1 TBSP per gallon of soil, BUT, it does not begin to help stabilize pH until late in grow so you must adjust manually. pH is so important to me I check runoff starting at about day 16 or so after first transplant all the way to the last 2 weeks, every other fed/water. But most grows my soil and I master the pH at 6.5 by week 2 of flower. So most of the time I do pH my water/fed at 6.5. Especially near the end of flower if you add dolomite the soil pH will tend to rise so sometimes when I would fed at 6.5 I will have a high runoff of 6.8-7.0, so near the end for me most times I can water/fed at below 6.5, maybe as low as 6.3 and runoff will be 6.6 or higher.

Stay between 6.3-6.8 in soil.

Edit-I just have to add I use to NOT pH my soils while using FoxFarm nutes, EarthJuice nutes and Canna nutes and I had nothing but problems in different types of well balanced soil mixes. My grows have improved over time by keeping my pH in check. This is actual experience, not just talk.
For some like Kite maybe they use a supersoil or a great organic mixed base that doesn't need to be pHed but I have yet to come across such a soil.
I think one of the worst pieces of advice a newbie can receive is someone telling them that pH doesn't matter and you should just allow your soil to do all the work. Just bad advice IMO.
Click to expand...

see the thing is ,the best people to take advice from is the people who make the product.Not some random stoner on the internet.

"How do you balance the PH EC of Biobizz soil/fertilizers?

 With Biobizz soils, the EC and pH value do not need to be measured, as should when using a mineral medium. Biobizz organic mediums and nutrients are not made of mineral salts but organic bound elements, which are not measurable. The medium has a natural pH form; this will keep the soil in balance by itself."
 
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