Ph issue in flowering

G

GrowingAbroad

Active Member
AN
FastFreddi said:
I believe this to be the reason for so many deficiencies for new growers.
Soil acidity increases due to always putting in low ph constantly, salts buildup, lockouts due to antagonist traits of micronutrients.
Raise the ph...simple really.
Never need calmag, but I am on town water.
FF
Click to expand...
Exactly, never used calmag myself either.
Another issue is the nutes manufactures, a lot of them even put it on the bottle saying you need a PH of 5.8 and once they see something wrong they tend to use extra nutes when feeding while instead it's just a PH problem where the plants can't absorb it and this leads to over feeding. By using the right PH around 6.5-7.0 you don't even need the recommended amount seeing the plant are able to use everything you're giving them.

To me less nutes is always better. Easier to add some extra nutes then taking them away.
 
FastFreddi

FastFreddi

Well-Known Member
GrowingAbroad said:
AN


Exactly, never used calmag myself either.
Another issue is the nutes manufactures, a lot of them even put it on the bottle saying you need a PH of 5.8 and once they see something wrong they tend to use extra nutes when feeding while instead it's just a PH problem where the plants can't absorb it and this leads to over feeding. By using the right PH around 6.5-7.0 you don't even need the recommended amount seeing the plant are able to use everything you're giving them.

To me less nutes is always better. Easier to add some extra nutes then taking them away.
Click to expand...
Bang on Friend.
FF
 
DoubleAtotheRON

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
GrowingAbroad said:
AN


Exactly, never used calmag myself either.
Another issue is the nutes manufactures, a lot of them even put it on the bottle saying you need a PH of 5.8 and once they see something wrong they tend to use extra nutes when feeding while instead it's just a PH problem where the plants can't absorb it and this leads to over feeding. By using the right PH around 6.5-7.0 you don't even need the recommended amount seeing the plant are able to use everything you're giving them.

To me less nutes is always better. Easier to add some extra nutes then taking them away.
Click to expand...
True... and every grow Is a bit different. I use cal mag because we’re in a sealed room running CO2 at 1400 ppm , and using high power quantum board leds. I do feed by Flora’s chart recommendation, and feed, feed, feed.. they can take more feed, light, and heat with CO2. Otherwise, yeah, you don’t need that much feed in a tent without CO2. They’ll burn up if you don’t plain water them ever other time or so.
 
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J

JoshKet

Member
DoubleAtotheRON said:
@JoshKet ..Just the Flora Trio.. I do add Cal mag and Mammoth P, but that's it. Here’s something that may be of help. We do ALOT of run off when feeding. I know it sounds like a waste of nutes, but I do this for a living, so the cost is worth it for the production.
You will realize there are 3 variables going on here. First, what’s going in. Second, what’s coming out, and finally, what the soil buffers at.
Here’s what is going in...
View attachment 4875961
And here’s what’s coming out (the runoff)View attachment 4875966
Notice how the PPM’s is higher?, but not like ALOT higher?.. that because I am semi flushing all the time, every time, and that's what keeps the PH more stable, and also flushes out salt buildup.
And here’s the 3rd variable, the root zone PH as it buffers with the feed in mix.



View attachment 4875968
And just to give you an idea of how much runoff we get, here’s a link to the runoff of 8 fed plants on this tray....
Click to expand...
What soil do you use? I’m looking into those Apera ph meters but there are tons of different versions. I’ve been using a vivosun 3 way ph meter and it was telling me my ph was 7.5. It wasn’t until I tested runoff and did a soil water mix test that I realized the vivosun meter wasn’t accurate.
I really appreciate the info
 
J

JoshKet

Member
DoubleAtotheRON said:
True... and every grow Is a bit different. I use cal mag because we’re in a sealed room running CO2 at 1400 ppm , and using high power quantum board leds. I do feed by Flora’s chart recommendation, and feed, feed, feed.. they can take more feed, light, and heat with CO2. Otherwise, yeah, you don’t need that much feed in a tent without CO2. They’ll burn up if you don’t plain water them ever other time or so.
Click to expand...
Would you water them with plain distilled water in between cal mag feedings?? I’m using a Mars TS2000 and a G8 90 watt Red booster.
the Mars light recommends higher cal/mag.Would you think 3ml per gallon is too much through the entire grow?
 
DoubleAtotheRON

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
JoshKet said:
Would you water them with plain distilled water in between cal mag feedings?? I’m using a Mars TS2000 and a G8 90 watt Red booster.
the Mars light recommends higher cal/mag.Would you think 3ml per gallon is too much through the entire grow?
Click to expand...
There's a ton of meters out there, but I experienced the same inaccurate readings with cheap meters. The Apera is very accurate. Not cheap at $440, and you have to replace the spear probe ($167) every grow...Unless you're using it less for fewer plants, then it may last a year or so. This is the one I have..
https://aperainst.com/apera-instruments-ai3211-ph8500-sl-portable-ph-meter-tester-for-soil-direct-measurement-equipped-with-labsen-553-electrode-plastic-lead-free-glass
As far as soil, I use C25. I know alot of people haven't even heard of it. I stay away from FF, HF, and other "popular" soils that come pre amended. I like to start with a clean slate, that way I know whats going in there from the start. C25 is a peat based medium with aged bark mulch from GA with some perlite, vermiculite, etc. Drains really well from start to finish.
Cal Mag.... I use 5ml per gallon from start to finish, but like I said, every grow is different. But I'd think you'd be safe at 3ml. Cal, Mag are immobile elements, If they don't need it, they won't use it, so shouldn't be a problem. N,P,K are mobile elements, and are absolutely needed for growth and production..... and you're tap water should be fine as long as it's safe to drink, and is not highly chlorinated. I use ground well water. It's clean, but a bit on the hard side, which is another reason I semi flush. I don't want too much of that Calcium building up in the medium.
Like @GrowingAbroad had said, alot of people see a minor leaf problem and start throwing more crap at it trying to fix it, and instead, compound the problem even more. I think 90% of peoples plant problems are directly related to incorrect PH levels.
 
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FastFreddi

FastFreddi

Well-Known Member
DoubleAtotheRON said:
There's a ton of meters out there, but I experienced the same inaccurate readings with cheap meters. The Apera is very accurate. Not cheap at $440, and you have to replace the spear probe ($167) every grow...Unless you're using it less for fewer plants, then it may last a year or so. This is the one I have..
https://aperainst.com/apera-instruments-ai3211-ph8500-sl-portable-ph-meter-tester-for-soil-direct-measurement-equipped-with-labsen-553-electrode-plastic-lead-free-glass
As far as soil, I use C25. I know alot of people haven't even heard of it. I stay away from FF, HF, and other "popular" soils that come pre amended. I like to start with a clean slate, that way I know whats going in there from the start. C25 is a peat based medium with aged bark mulch from GA with some perlite, vermiculite, etc. Drains really well from start to finish.
Cal Mag.... I use 5ml per gallon from start to finish, but like I said, every grow is different. But I'd think you'd be safe at 3ml. Cal, Mag are immobile elements, If they don't need it, they won't use it, so shouldn't be a problem. N,P,K are mobile elements, and are absolutely needed for growth and production..... and you're tap water should be fine as long as it's safe to drink, and is not highly chlorinated. I use ground well water. It's clean, but a bit on the hard side, which is another reason I semi flush. I don't want too much of that Calcium building up in the medium.
Like @GrowingAbroad had said, alot of people see a minor leaf problem and start throwing more crap at it trying to fix it, and instead, compound the problem even more. I think 90% of peoples plant problems are directly related to incorrect PH levels.
Click to expand...
And trying to rush growth rates by overfeeding.
FF
 
J

JoshKet

Member
DoubleAtotheRON said:
There's a ton of meters out there, but I experienced the same inaccurate readings with cheap meters. The Apera is very accurate. Not cheap at $440, and you have to replace the spear probe ($167) every grow...Unless you're using it less for fewer plants, then it may last a year or so. This is the one I have..
https://aperainst.com/apera-instruments-ai3211-ph8500-sl-portable-ph-meter-tester-for-soil-direct-measurement-equipped-with-labsen-553-electrode-plastic-lead-free-glass
As far as soil, I use C25. I know alot of people haven't even heard of it. I stay away from FF, HF, and other "popular" soils that come pre amended. I like to start with a clean slate, that way I know whats going in there from the start. C25 is a peat based medium with aged bark mulch from GA with some perlite, vermiculite, etc. Drains really well from start to finish.
Cal Mag.... I use 5ml per gallon from start to finish, but like I said, every grow is different. But I'd think you'd be safe at 3ml. Cal, Mag are immobile elements, If they don't need it, they won't use it, so shouldn't be a problem. N,P,K are mobile elements, and are absolutely needed for growth and production..... and you're tap water should be fine as long as it's safe to drink, and is not highly chlorinated. I use ground well water. It's clean, but a bit on the hard side, which is another reason I semi flush. I don't want too much of that Calcium building up in the medium.
Like @GrowingAbroad had said, alot of people see a minor leaf problem and start throwing more crap at it trying to fix it, and instead, compound the problem even more. I think 90% of peoples plant problems are directly related to incorrect PH levels.
Click to expand...
It almost seems like an expensive meter is worth it at this point. It’s frustrating when you can’t trust your instruments.
i have three plants showing these symptoms and I’ve only flushed one of them. I am only concerned with learning for the next couple grows, so I think I may give each plant different treatment to help me learn what’s going on. Today I am going to flush a second plant but I’m going to add dolomite lime to the soil before I water.
Yeah I can’t even find that soil. I’ll try to look for something comparable.
 
DoubleAtotheRON

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
JoshKet said:
It almost seems like an expensive meter is worth it at this point. It’s frustrating when you can’t trust your instruments.
i have three plants showing these symptoms and I’ve only flushed one of them. I am only concerned with learning for the next couple grows, so I think I may give each plant different treatment to help me learn what’s going on. Today I am going to flush a second plant but I’m going to add dolomite lime to the soil before I water.
Yeah I can’t even find that soil. I’ll try to look for something comparable.
Click to expand...
It's totally worth it. I use it every single day. The great thing about this particular meter, is you can measure liquid, and soil. This is absolutely the most important tool I use. No guesswork trying to dial in the PH. I actually check every plant (average 25-35 per day) to make sure Im in the zone.
But yeah!.. experiments are great learning skills!.. Every time I change something, I'll write it down and observe. Good on ya for doing that!
The soil I get from a friend of mine that owns a Nursery, and he special orders it for me. Name brand is Jolly Gardener. As far as "flush"... I don't do a full flush (2-3 times the pot volume) unless I have a problem. I just get about 10-15% run off every time I feed.... that's why I call it a "semi-flush". And I just semi flush with my normal mix.. in week 4 right now, so Im at 265ml of Micro, 265ml of Gro, and 380ml of Bloom per 50 gallons. Puts me right at ~1000ppm and I do not have to add any PH up or down. It comes out right at 7.2 or so, which is pretty close to my natural well water (~7.3)
 
SBBCal

SBBCal

Well-Known Member
JoshKet said:
It almost seems like an expensive meter is worth it at this point. It’s frustrating when you can’t trust your instruments.
i have three plants showing these symptoms and I’ve only flushed one of them. I am only concerned with learning for the next couple grows, so I think I may give each plant different treatment to help me learn what’s going on. Today I am going to flush a second plant but I’m going to add dolomite lime to the soil before I water.
Yeah I can’t even find that soil. I’ll try to look for something comparable.
Click to expand...
May be a stupid question, but when was the last time you calibrated your pen? Only bring it up as I’m also in week 5 ish and noticed a plant showing some yellowing. Everything was dialed in so I checked my ph pens. BOTH, we’re about .8-1.0 LOW .
-you can run a test with distilled store bought water. Should be 7.0 but with natural O2 - 6.7-6.8.
-my deficiency looked like Potassium which is best absorbed higher ph. And mine was around 6.0 lol for at least 3 weeks :wall: just a thought. Gl
 
J

JoshKet

Member
DoubleAtotheRON said:
It's totally worth it. I use it every single day. The great thing about this particular meter, is you can measure liquid, and soil. This is absolutely the most important tool I use. No guesswork trying to dial in the PH. I actually check every plant (average 25-35 per day) to make sure Im in the zone.
But yeah!.. experiments are great learning skills!.. Every time I change something, I'll write it down and observe. Good on ya for doing that!
The soil I get from a friend of mine that owns a Nursery, and he special orders it for me. Name brand is Jolly Gardener. As far as "flush"... I don't do a full flush (2-3 times the pot volume) unless I have a problem. I just get about 10-15% run off every time I feed.... that's why I call it a "semi-flush". And I just semi flush with my normal mix.. in week 4 right now, so Im at 265ml of Micro, 265ml of Gro, and 380ml of Bloom per 50 gallons. Puts me right at ~1000ppm and I do not have to add any PH up or down. It comes out right at 7.2 or so, which is pretty close to my natural well water (~7.3)
Click to expand...
I’m only growing 6 plants a time, but really everything is the same. I love the idea of using a shop vac to drain my platters that the plants drain into. I have been picking the plants up and moving every time I watered to drain!
I think I am going to switch to the flora series for my next grow. Im using the fox farm dirty dozen which is way too complicated unless you are getting amazing results.
my tap water comes out at 650ppm... and has chlorine, so that’s why I am using distilled water and adding cal/mag. I wonder if I’m missing something from the natural tap water.
would you be willing to send me the feeding schedule you use? I’m desperate for a good guide for feeding. Everyone has such different opinions it’s hard to know.
I am going to look for a similar soil. I found the proline C/25 but it’s not available near me
 
DoubleAtotheRON

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
SBBCal said:
May be a stupid question, but when was the last time you calibrated your pen? Only bring it up as I’m also in week 5 ish and noticed a plant showing some yellowing. Everything was dialed in so I checked my ph pens. BOTH, we’re about .8-1.0 LOW .
-you can run a test with distilled store bought water. Should be 7.0 but with natural O2 - 6.7-6.8.
-my deficiency looked like Potassium which is best absorbed higher ph. And mine was around 6.0 lol for at least 3 weeks :wall: just a thought. Gl
Click to expand...
I don't think those 3 way meters can even be calibrated.
 
J

JoshKet

Member
SBBCal said:
May be a stupid question, but when was the last time you calibrated your pen? Only bring it up as I’m also in week 5 ish and noticed a plant showing some yellowing. Everything was dialed in so I checked my ph pens. BOTH, we’re about .8-1.0 LOW .
-you can run a test with distilled store bought water. Should be 7.0 but with natural O2 - 6.7-6.8.
-my deficiency looked like Potassium which is best absorbed higher ph. And mine was around 6.0 lol for at least 3 weeks :wall: just a thought. Gl
Click to expand...
I was using the vivosun 3 way soil/ph/light meter.... not even a ph pen, I thought it would be accurate enough but I’m realizing it’s not.
 
DoubleAtotheRON

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
JoshKet said:
I’m only growing 6 plants a time, but really everything is the same. I love the idea of using a shop vac to drain my platters that the plants drain into. I have been picking the plants up and moving every time I watered to drain!
I think I am going to switch to the flora series for my next grow. Im using the fox farm dirty dozen which is way too complicated unless you are getting amazing results.
my tap water comes out at 650ppm... and has chlorine, so that’s why I am using distilled water and adding cal/mag. I wonder if I’m missing something from the natural tap water.
would you be willing to send me the feeding schedule you use? I’m desperate for a good guide for feeding. Everyone has such different opinions it’s hard to know.
I am going to look for a similar soil. I found the proline C/25 but it’s not available near me
Click to expand...
Here's the feeding schedule I use. They have Aggressive, Medium and Light schedules.. I use the Medium, and feed every time.Screen Shot 2021-03-16 at 9.36.14 PM.png
 
SBBCal

SBBCal

Well-Known Member
JoshKet said:
I was using the vivosun 3 way soil/ph/light meter.... not even a ph pen, I thought it would be accurate enough but I’m realizing it’s not.
Click to expand...
Ohh ok. Didn’t see that. Yeah if your strapped for cash at the moment , the 15-25$ Amazon ones work fine imo. Ph pen only. Just get some calibration solution for future use. :joint:
 
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