pulpoinspace
Well-Known Member
i use mad farmer. phosphoric acid i believe. 2 ml brings a gallon from 8 to 6.
Ph up and ph down
- Thread starter anthony1
- Start date
Ok, I'm lost, in over my head. lol
The MSDS I that linked lists calcium carbonate in Blue Gold ph down. But it does say Calcium Carbonate (negative charged)
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OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
So true but what gets me is how much pH up or down to people actually go through?
I bought 1L bottles of each over 10 years ago and still have most of both left still. The only thing I've needed the Up bottle for was to boil some down to get the potassium hydroxide I wanted to make a 5% sol'n with EverClear as a reagent for doing the Beam's test for CBD. Ended up getting a pound of pure KOH and using that instead. Thought I needed lots but only have to use 5 drops of it for each test and made 500mls of the damn stuff. Drank the other 250ml of EverClear and got a good pissup out of it at least. Tempted to toss 250ml of the sol'n into my still and recover the booze for another pissup.
Just found this on 420 and grasscity forums, $14.99 per gallon. Dairyland Sterosol Milkstone Remover & Acid Rinse, from Tractor Supply co.
I wonder about the surfactants.
I wonder about the surfactants.
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pulpoinspace
Well-Known Member
We go through a lot around here. Water comes out of the tap under 200ppm but close to 9 pH. I live in Southern California and I’ve talked to a few other people around here and they have the same thing. It’s the only thing I run out of usually haha.So true but what gets me is how much pH up or down to people actually go through?
I bought 1L bottles of each over 10 years ago and still have most of both left still. The only thing I've needed the Up bottle for was to boil some down to get the potassium hydroxide I wanted to make a 5% sol'n with EverClear as a reagent for doing the Beam's test for CBD. Ended up getting a pound of pure KOH and using that instead. Thought I needed lots but only have to use 5 drops of it for each test and made 500mls of the damn stuff. Drank the other 250ml of EverClear and got a good pissup out of it at least. Tempted to toss 250ml of the sol'n into my still and recover the booze for another pissup.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
If it's listed in the ingredients for pH down then it's added as a buffer because it will raise pH but not a lot.
Just went and grabbed my jug of pH down and it doesn't list anything. Just says Corrosive on the front label. It's really old from a company called Bumper Crop. So old it doesn't even have a website on the label. lol
It lists only water, Calcium Carbonate (negative charged) and sulfur. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hN0O0yXTU1x_2Sz2R1cOd_L_n-337gqV/view
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Do not use industrial stuff like that. They don't list all the ingredients in something like that as it's not a consumable product so they don't have to. Like battery acid you can get at the parts store. Sure it's sulfuric acid but they don't have to use pure sulfuric so most likely has high levels of heavy metal contaminants in it compared to the analytical grade sulfuric I have.
I worked as a chemist in a hazardous waste facility for a couple years back in the early 90s and brought lots of goodies home. Got a big jug of virgin sulfuric and a smaller one of fuming nitric acid. Very concentrated and 5 drops of sulfuric would drop a 50L tub of nutes down a full point from 6.3 to 5.3 back before I started using the pH Perfect nutes. Still AN nutes but their earlier stuff. One drop would blind you.
Trade Secrets! LOL
The sulfur will be in the form of sulfuric acid with the CaCO3 added as a buffer.
A liter of regular pH down from any garden center works just fine and is probably $10 or less. Should last for a long time for a regular home grower. Doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. You have a decent pH pen and know how to care for it and use it properly?
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Think of all the money you save not having to add CalMag.
Alkaline water like that must be high in both and I assume you've had it tested.How are the water levels down there this year? The aquifers are getting more drained and polluted so it won't be too many more years before it'll all be surface water or nothing and demands on the Colorado River are already way too high.
I bet the eco-warriors won't bitch when Canada wants to build a pipeline to send all our water south to save you guys from dying of thirst. Should sell for more than they are willing to pay for our Alberta bitumen.
Water is the next commodity we'll be fighting wars over sadly.
I have over 12,000 cubic meters of water in my dugout so I'm good for a while.
pulpoinspace
Well-Known Member
Yeah tons of calcium i never use calmag. I think its mostly calcium carbonate IIRC.Think of all the money you save not having to add CalMag.
How are the water levels down there this year? The aquifers are getting more drained and polluted so it won't be too many more years before it'll all be surface water or nothing and demands on the Colorado River are already way too high.
I bet the eco-warriors won't bitch when Canada wants to build a pipeline to send all our water south to save you guys from dying of thirst. Should sell for more than they are willing to pay for our Alberta bitumen.
Water is the next commodity we'll be fighting wars over sadly.
I have over 12,000 cubic meters of water in my dugout so I'm good for a while.
We had another good year for snowpack this winter and last year was good too. But that doesn't really mean much, one bad year and were back to the drought.
i think they're letting people water their lawns again tho. it got pretty touch and go for a while there.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I saw some shit about people getting their lawns dyed green ffs.
When you decide to turn a desert into the country's largest agricultural producer you need a lot of water. Was Ok back in the day but the population of CA has quadrupled since then and weather patterns have changed for the worse.
Oh well. Once Trump kicks out all the illegals everything will be perfect again like it was back in the 50s. LOL
Last time I was in SoCal was back in '74. Now that I need a passport to get across the line I doubt I'll ever go to the US again. Met a nice lady in southern Oregon in '91 and she's single again so wouldn't mind heading Medford way for another wild weekend. Almost married that girl and was going to go live down there. Not the way things are now tho. She came up here for a couple weeks just after Xmas '91 when I still lived in the Fraser Valley in BC. Her first time out of the US and she was paranoid that immigration was going to get her. I really liked it down there and so did my boys who were only 7 and 9 back then.
Speaking of water we're down to our last jug of RO so off to town to get more. Almost out of coffee too.
Later . . .
The same for the hydrochloric sold in hardware stores?
Great, now I know who to bother with my dumb chemistry questions!
Fuming nitric, fun stuff!
The dense, purple clouds look really cool! It was Saddam Hussein's favorite torture!Is it more dangerous than other concentrated acids?
Thanks for the explanation. Lot's of good info in this thread. Yes, I have a Milwaukee MW-102 and have done a lot of research on use and maintenance. I'll try to post all the good info I've found later today.... saved my probe after accidentally letting it dry out.The sulfur will be in the form of sulfuric acid with the CaCO3 added as a buffer.
You have a decent pH pen and know how to care for it and use it properly?
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Pretty much the same.
Now I'm not saying that there are really high levels of contaminants in any stuff like that but it's going to be a lot higher than the minuscule amounts found in lab grade chemicals and there are different grades of those too. Ultra pure chemicals will cost a whole lot more than standard grade and if low levels of contaminants won't interfere with the experiment or test being done then the cheaper stuff will do.
With industrial grade chemicals it doesn't pay to remove trace contaminants. Like with battery acid who cares if it's high in lead as it going to be sitting in lead in the battery. A little cadmium, mercury etc won't hurt the battery none either. Same with hydrochloric aka muriatic acid. Not for human consumption so doesn't have to be pure. HCl wouldn't be good for plants just because of the chlorine.
It's been 30 years since I graduated environmental chem so don't expect a doctoral thesis eh.Great, now I know who to bother with my dumb chemistry questions!
Fuming nitric, fun stuff!
Is it more dangerous than other concentrated acids?
Actually fuming nitric gives off brown vapours. NOx. Same thing that comes out of car exhausts and causes that brown soup when you can see thru a long distance of air on hot sunny days near cities. A lot of that is VOCs as well. Volatile Organic Compounds like what evaporates of of oil based paints. Comes off of spruce, pine and fir trees too and many other natural sources. That's how the Blue Hills of Kentucky got their name. From the blue haze that would form on hot, still days from all the terpenes evaporating off the trees.
Sulfuric is about 25% stronger than Nitric but in concentrated form both can be nasty. H2SO4 compared to HNO3. Acids like phosphorous and acetic are relatively weak organic acids but still dangerous at high concentration.
Actually if you don't plan to use a pH pen for a long while putting it away to dry out is OK but like when you get a new one it should re-hydrate in storage sol'n for at least 24 hours or longer before attempting to use it again. I put mine away for almost 3 years before using it a few months ago and it's at least 7 years old now and still works fine. Was a bit slow to respond as the reference prob had got dirty so I used two part cleaning sol'ns to clean it well and it's much faster now and calibrates fine at 7 and 4.
Milwaukee makes good gear so should last you for a while. Most of the makers web sites have good info on care and maintenance and it's pretty much the same for each. Biggest problem is most people haven't a clue and don't bother looking. lol
The one I have is the ecoTestr pH1 made by Eutech/Oakton. Was half the price of the old Oakton one I had before it at $69. Still have the Oakton but a new probe is as much as the new pen. Go figure.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
Hmm, I never had that issue and I do know for a fact that it is used in some commercial hydroponic operations. You do have to dilute it into a solution before adding to a reservoir. You don't just add it straight. Just like you should dilute phosphoric acid/pH up before adding to the reservoir. I used it without any issues as do many other growers. It is perfectly fine to use if you use it correctly.
How to Increase the pH of a nutrient solution
When the water supply has a pH below 5.8 a base should be added to the water. The most common base available is potassium hydroxide (KOH). Other chemicals can also be used such as sodium hydroxide (NaOH)
https://www.commercial-hydroponic-farming.com/adjust-ph/
To raise pH add a base. The bases used in hydroponics are Potassium Hydroxide and Sodium Hydroxide.
http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/hydroponicprinciples_guide.php
JohnDee
Well-Known Member
Hi Xtsho,
The ph down was a powder...but I diluted maybe 10cc into a liter before use. I don't have access to the original packaging at the moment (it's in lights-off bloom room) But I will double check both the chemical names for the ph down and also the powdered calmag I am using. A mistake on my part is certainly within the realm of possibilities. So I'll get that info and post tomorrow.
JD
So true. I'd say almost all problems come from a lack of probe maintenance and understanding.Milwaukee makes good gear so should last you for a while. Most of the makers web sites have good info on care and maintenance and it's pretty much the same for each. Biggest problem is most people haven't a clue and don't bother looking. lol
I did the hydrocloric and storage soaks which improved response time, then a very gentle cleaning with soapy water and tooth brush, now it's as fast as ever. https://www.vernier.com/til/2201/
Thanks for your replies, I think we've pretty well covered pH down!
How long does the hydroxide hold the ph raised? Like 2-3 days? A week?
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
That depends on how much acid is present to use it up. If you need to use pH Up a lot then you should be using potassium hydroxide instead of the sodium one. Once in a while is OK but too much sodium is why we don't use sea water on our plants.
Most pH Up uses 10% pot. hydroxide. Both types are commonly used to make soap.If you have acidic, (sour) soil and need to raise it's pH to the sweet side then you're better to use some form of lime as the hydroxides are very caustic and fast acting so could damage roots.