PH up K levels

a2lute

a2lute

Well-Known Member
So I'm trying to get to the next level with my nutes, keeping VERY good track of npk and ppm, as well as micros. I have to add around 10ml/gallon of ph up. GH lists their ph up as between 10 and 20% potassium carbonate. This should be bioavailable K, do I have to factor that in? Are there non potassium ph up solutions?
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
use Armor Si from GH. you get Silica and it works as pH up too.

10ml a gallon is really high. is there something causing you to use that much? if i need up, i use maybe 5mL for 10 gallons.
 
a2lute

a2lute

Well-Known Member
I know my nutes drop the ph a lot. Mills line. Yeah, that has not been the case for me.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
a2lute said:
I do drain to waste, so I just mix a batch, ph, and use the whole thing.
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gotcha.
maybe try the armor Si like i said, it might take less to get your pH up and you at least get teh benefits of Silica.

does Mills offer a pH up? i doubt it would make a difference but maybe it works better than GH?
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
it sure is. i wasn't responding to his non K alternatives. just a different up that he might not need as much. comprende?
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It's really all about dilution rates IMO. The GH pH buffers are watered down more than say Advanced pH buffers.

For the record, GH Armor Si @ 1mL per Gallon provides 9 mg/l of potassium and 26.4 mg/l silicon. (mg/l is elemental PPM, actual PPM)

K=39.0983 x 2 = 78.1966
C=12.0107
O=15.999 x 3 = 47.997
Total mass = 138.2043
78.1966 / 138.2043 = 56.58% K

So K2CO3 maths out to 56.58% K

We would need to weigh one mL of it to get a specific gravity OR just weigh the additions.

So if we have 1 gram of the pH up that is diluted at 10% (OP mentioned 10-20%) so 0.1 grams of K2CO3 added to 1 liter of h2o, we get 5.658 mg/l of K.

I hope someone can double check that math because I am really stoned lol.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
The GH pH buffers are watered down more than say Advanced pH buffers.
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that's true. but 10 ml per gallon of Up is crazy high. with GH, a capful takes 10 gallons up about 0.5 in my dtw res. about the same with GH down.

and i cant' do math stone cold sober let alone baked.
 
a2lute

a2lute

Well-Known Member
Okay, I did a bit of chem research in a different direction. A base's strength can be determined by what conjugate acid is used to form it. Your most common ph up chemicals are: potassium hydroxide, potassium carbonate, and potassium silicate. The anions here are OH, CO-, and SiO3. The conjugate acids would be H2O, HCO3, and Si(OH)4. The relationship is inverse so the weakest acid would make the strongest base. Obviously water is weak AF as far as acids go, and I'm pretty sure HCO3 is stronger than Si(OH)4. So the most effective to least effective ph up should be: KOH, K2SiO3, K2CO3. Can anyone double check me?
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
after you and renfrom figure that out, i got a question for you:

do you have an elemental ppm profile that you follow for cannabis? NPKCaMg for veg? for bloom? my system is as good as i want to get it and only thing i'm messign with now is different NPK profiles.
what different ratios have you used?
 
a2lute

a2lute

Well-Known Member
Renfro has a really good calculator in his signature. Oh, I need to get the mills info over to you...

But as far as NPK, I am learning so I can't confirm this, but I have read here and many other places that 1:2:3 , 1:3:2, and 1:2:2 are good for flower. I had very high K my first grow, and I aim to slowly increase the amount of P over a few grows and see what works out best. It is universally accepted that you need to reduce N as you flower, many people giving no N the last few weeks.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
a2lute said:
but I have read here and many other places that 1:2:3 , 1:3:2, and 1:2:2 are good for flower.
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A 1-3-2 would be ok in mid flower but too much P ruins flavor so I prefer to get the P down and run 1:2:2. It's ok to use a P bump for a few weeks, say weeks 4 and 5 then back down to 1:2:2.

A 1:2:3 would be a good finisher.
 
a2lute

a2lute

Well-Known Member
That's experience taking, I would listen to him on NPK.

Renfro, I think your math may be off on those molarity ph levels. KOH is 14 at 1M. I haven't checked the others.
 
a2lute

a2lute

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I crunched it, then checked it against wolframalpha, its 14. I see a .de domain. Maybe it's German ph:D EDIT: just looked at that link, it's all in milli molar.
 
a2lute

a2lute

Well-Known Member
A nice solution here, bluelab ph up is potassium hydroxide, and is speced out at 35%, so there's no guessing k levels. I will be using that next.
 
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