Phenos.

tallstraw

tallstraw

Active Member
So, what are all these phenos I hear about? Like within a certain plant type, there will be different phenos. Which I understand, but what I don't understand are these phenos people chase after, and hope for. Are there good phenos to look for in any of these seeds I'm about to buy from Dr. GT. I hope I'm making sense.
G13(nevilles cut)
Bubba OG(pre98, Ghost og)
Og kush(ghost cut)
Bubba kush(katsu cut)
East Coast Sour Diesel
Chemdawg #4
Uk Cheese (exodus Cut)
Mantanuska Thunderfuck

Are there like specific types of phenos people look for in any of these plants? Im just wondering before I buy all these in a few days lol. Wont affect my decision if there isn't. I just want good genetics, which is why im going through Dr GT. But if there are cool phenos to look for that's just a plus.or just call me stupid lol
 
OGEvilgenius

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Sannies is cheaper and awesome. I've heard good things about some of Dr GT's lines, but I have heard some other negative stuff. Haven't run them, know they are overpriced though.

You could buy all of sannies lineup for the cash you're about to lay out lol.

Also, pretty much all lines are going to have some plants that are better than others. Some are fairly stable, but still, usually about 5% of the plants in any given line are going to be superior.
 
direwolf71

direwolf71

Well-Known Member
Phenotype Definition
noun, plural: phenotypes
(1) The physical appearance or biochemical characteristic of an organism as a result of the interaction of its genotype and the environment.
(2) The expression of a particular trait, for example, skin color, height, behavior, etc., according to the individual’s genetic makeup and environment.

Supplement
Phenotypes result from the expression of the genes of an organisms as well as the influence of environmental factors and random variation. The interaction between these factors have often been represented by the following relationship:
genotype + environment + random variation → phenotype.

Word origin: NL phaeno- < Gk phaino- shining, comb. form of phaínein to shine, appear + -type.
Related forms: phenotypic (adjective), phenotypically (adverb).
Related phrases: MASS phenotype, thrifty phenotype.
 
tallstraw

tallstraw

Active Member
The plants I'm interested in he has, and I've heard mostly rave reviews about those strains. You'll hesr good and bad, just like I have about sannies and all the others. But I trust Iin him, and so that's what puts my mind at ease.

I hear of these like cat piss phenos, and other shit. I just wondered if there was a specific type or 2 or 3 you look for in any given strain. But thanks man! Good loks brother.


I know what a pheno means... -____-
I am speaking in specifics.
 
HGK420

HGK420

Well-Known Member
well phenos goes like this.

if i plant 10 seeds every plant will be a little different. you know any big irish catholic families? look at their 11 kids. all different but all the same sorta.

say you mix bubba and trainwreck. your gonna have some short fat leaf phenos and some TALL stretchy skinny or fat leaf phenos. you might get a short skinny leaf pheno. basically since bubba and trainwrek exhibit both ends of the spectrum your children will be anywhere in between.

NOW as for flavor/potency. i read alot of people saying LOOK for the tall skinny leaf one.... thats the trainwreck pheno. she tastes like cat piss and is strong..... WELL NOT ALWAYS will the tall trainwreck look have the TW flavor. it might be bubba tastic.

basically a phenotype or genotype is its individuality. its identity maybe is a way to say it?

il use it in some sentances.

i got a really STRETCHY hollow stem phenotype of Holy grail kush BUT the buds are so rock hard and resinous that it still yields 5-6 OZ ez

one of the other phenos was alot more compact and had ALMOST the exact flavor but the foliage was insane and the buds did not get dense so i went with the STRETCHY pheno.

you can find "Exact" twin phenotypes but if you really really break it down they probably arnt exact. (Unless your running some dutch gear then you got a good chance at getting clones)

idk its complicated. with blue dream (Silver haze x blubbery) you can get straight up Haze phenos or straight up Blueberry muffin phenos. tall and short and everything inbetween.

a good balanced pheno that you cant really tell what the parents where but if you know what they are then you can easily taste them. (That make sense?)

if you bread a triangle and a circle some of the kids would be a circle with a point, some would be a triangle with rounded corners, others would be even weirder. JUST MAYBE one is a CONE. a perfect blending of a triangle and a circle. a union that creates more then what its parents ever where.

not every seed will be a winning pheno either. Theres alot of recessive traits that suck that can rear their ugly heads. rubber flavor, stemmy woody nonsense, foliage overload, stretch bomb. lots of bad traits out there.

idk i hope this helps..
 
tallstraw

tallstraw

Active Member
HGK420 said:
well phenos goes like this.

if i plant 10 seeds every plant will be a little different. you know any big irish catholic families? look at their 11 kids. all different but all the same sorta.

say you mix bubba and trainwreck. your gonna have some short fat leaf phenos and some TALL stretchy skinny or fat leaf phenos. you might get a short skinny leaf pheno. basically since bubba and trainwrek exhibit both ends of the spectrum your children will be anywhere in between.

NOW as for flavor/potency. i read alot of people saying LOOK for the tall skinny leaf one.... thats the trainwreck pheno. she tastes like cat piss and is strong..... WELL NOT ALWAYS will the tall trainwreck look have the TW flavor. it might be bubba tastic.

basically a phenotype or genotype is its individuality. its identity maybe is a way to say it?

il use it in some sentances.

i got a really STRETCHY hollow stem phenotype of Holy grail kush BUT the buds are so rock hard and resinous that it still yields 5-6 OZ ez

one of the other phenos was alot more compact and had ALMOST the exact flavor but the foliage was insane and the buds did not get dense so i went with the STRETCHY pheno.

you can find "Exact" twin phenotypes but if you really really break it down they probably arnt exact. (Unless your running some dutch gear then you got a good chance at getting clones)

idk its complicated. with blue dream (Silver haze x blubbery) you can get straight up Haze phenos or straight up Blueberry muffin phenos. tall and short and everything inbetween.

a good balanced pheno that you cant really tell what the parents where but if you know what they are then you can easily taste them. (That make sense?)

if you bread a triangle and a circle some of the kids would be a circle with a point, some would be a triangle with rounded corners, others would be even weirder. JUST MAYBE one is a CONE. a perfect blending of a triangle and a circle. a union that creates more then what its parents ever where.

not every seed will be a winning pheno either. Theres alot of recessive traits that suck that can rear their ugly heads. rubber flavor, stemmy woody nonsense, foliage overload, stretch bomb. lots of bad traits out there.

idk i hope this helps..
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No this really does help. Thank you. I imagine people would help me out along the way though on this site, too, right?. Picking out the best, cosmetically wise, since they can only see pictures.
 
HGK420

HGK420

Well-Known Member
ya for sure ive seen people recognize alot of things on here. growth patterns and whatnot.

in the end its all about what it smoked like tho dont forget. my OG 18 and Holy grail kush are some of the most ridiculous plants to grow but the end product is a must have.

if i had room id love to run 100 more OG 18 or HGK's to find one with the quality that i have now but the growth/yield that i want. they are out there just gotta find em.

thats the phenohunt. its a balancing act between ease of growth, yield, flavor, potency, looks, smell, type of high.

if you can find one thats got high marks in all the categories then you have a true winner.

an elite so to say. these are the ones that get passed around and create shit storms.
 
tallstraw

tallstraw

Active Member
Ahhh so if I find that one in a million. This is how like SFV, OG, larry, and Tahoe OG all come about?
 
HGK420

HGK420

Well-Known Member
exactly. every elite started as a seed somewhere. check out breed bay. bodhi has a 99 goji OG run that he picks phenos out of. it was a good read.
 
kona gold

kona gold

Well-Known Member
tallstraw said:
No this really does help. Thank you. I imagine people would help me out along the way though on this site, too, right?. Picking out the best, cosmetically wise, since they can only see pictures.
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Well.....it's a challenging question you ask.
The troubles lie in the way strains are being bred. They are breeding mainly clones of unsure nature with a possibly known male. Alot of clone only's will exhibit completely different characteristics when crosssed. Sometime they combine in such a way that the expression you are looking for never shows itself. Especially if what one thinks would be a dominate expression turns out to have really been a recessive trait, but since they didn't breed that clone originally to produce it themselves, then the knowledge in unclear.
So i guess one's idea would be to capture the desired traits of the mother....so they would pheno hunt for that particular trait...such as "cat piss" when they germinated their ten beans or whatever. So to eliminate pheno searching, and possibly never finding it.....maybe you should look into breeders that put the time in to stabilize the desired traits you are looking for......or hope you come accross something you think is fantastic that will make you forget what it was you were looking for?:-)
I'm sure you are aware and already understand this info, but hope it helps in your quest!!

If not......JOGROW will be by soon, if he already hasn't, with a wealth of info for you.
 
racerboy71

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
think of plants like people..
like hgk said, a big family, you got lots of different people's, some blonde hair, brown eyed, some blue eyed, blonde hairs, etc, etc..
in the cannabis world, some people are after the blonde hair, blued eyed crowd, and others are after the blonde hair, brown eyes... it all depends on what you're looking for, potency, taste, yield, etc, etc, etc..
 
tallstraw

tallstraw

Active Member
No I got it, thanks. I just didn't know if there was like a 'namebrand'-pheno so to speak. That expresses itself within each of these that everyone looks for. As in, like, everyone, when they buy these seeds. Are looking for a cat piss, or etc pheno within the genealogy of a specific strain. Does that make sense? Not that I'm looking for a high yielder or high potency or certain flavor, or certain color or combo, and etc. Like as in there is a specific pheno that rears it's head every so often within the specifics strains genes that everyone is chasing after, and has a name, and everyone knows it. But now I realize it's not like that. Although as I have seen. Some plants are like what I'm speaking of and do have a specific pheno, that has a name and people buy packs of seeds trying to find. But for the most part I se it isn't like that, and it's just selecting the best pheno for you. So thanks guys.
 
Jogro

Jogro

Well-Known Member
The term "phenotype" has a very specific scientific/genetic meaning; its been listed above.

But trying to avoid the scientific/genetic talk and making this as simple as possible, when people are talking about "phenos" with respect to cannabis plants, they just mean particular plant variations in a given line, that's all.

In other words, if you plant ten ceeds from a pack, you're going to see differences in height, bushiness, leaf shape, scent, flavor, potency, flowering time, yield, and every other characteristic of interest. These individual combinations of observable characteristics are the "phenos".

If a particular line is "inbred" or "true breeding" then pheno variation should be minimal; that is, all plants grown from one pack of ceeds should be substantially similar.

As to which phenos are the "best", that's a bit subjective and it depends what you are specifically looking for. Some people prize potency above all else; other are looking for particular cannabinoid ratios/effect. Commercial growers prize yield and "bag appeal".

The more of these desirable traits you're after, the less likely you are to find all of them in one given plant. Plants with high yield AND high potency AND great flavor AND disease resistance (etc) are hard to find. As mentioned, some of the "elite" clones became such because they are rare individual plants recognized to have an unusual combination of great traits.
 
racerboy71

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
tallstraw said:
No I got it, thanks. I just didn't know if there was like a 'namebrand'-pheno so to speak. That expresses itself within each of these that everyone looks for. As in, like, everyone, when they buy these seeds. Are looking for a cat piss, or etc pheno within the genealogy of a specific strain. Does that make sense? Not that I'm looking for a high yielder or high potency or certain flavor, or certain color or combo, and etc. Like as in there is a specific pheno that rears it's head every so often within the specifics strains genes that everyone is chasing after, and has a name, and everyone knows it. But now I realize it's not like that. Although as I have seen. Some plants are like what I'm speaking of and do have a specific pheno, that has a name and people buy packs of seeds trying to find. But for the most part I se it isn't like that, and it's just selecting the best pheno for you. So thanks guys.
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most definitely yes..
take ak 47 for instance.. there is a very rare pheno, called the cherry pheno, that is what pretty much every true connoisuer is looking for when they buy a pack of ak47 seeds..
same as say skunk number 1, it's said to be that the cheese strain came out of a pack of skunk seeds..

there are many, many more pheno's from certain genetics that people will look for most definitely though..
 
Jogro

Jogro

Well-Known Member
tallstraw said:
No I got it, thanks. I just didn't know if there was like a 'namebrand'-pheno so to speak. That expresses itself within each of these that everyone looks for. As in, like, everyone, when they buy these seeds. Are looking for a cat piss, or etc pheno within the genealogy of a specific strain. Does that make sense?
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It does make sense, and the answer is that it depends on the line in question.

With some lines, there are recognized "name" phenos that people may look for. For example, with Serious Se-eds famous AK47, people talk about a "cherry" pheno that's desirable. How frequent this particular pheno is, or even whether or not it exists at all are debatable, but people do claim to have it, and are looking for it.

As another example, with TGA plushberry, people talk about a pink/magenta colored "pink lady" pheno. Not really sure how desirable or common/uncommon this one is, but it is out there, eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDUXrn7G9iY

With other lines, there are clearly different phenos that may resemble particular parents a bit more or less, though they may not carry their own names.

Not that I'm looking for a high yielder or high potency or certain flavor, or certain color or combo, and etc. Like as in there is a specific pheno that rears it's head every so often within the specifics strains genes that everyone is chasing after, and has a name, and everyone knows it. But now I realize it's not like that. Although as I have seen. Some plants are like what I'm speaking of and do have a specific pheno, that has a name and people buy packs of seeds trying to find. But for the most part I se it isn't like that, and it's just selecting the best pheno for you. So thanks guys.
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Yes, I think you have it exactly here.

Some breeders actually emphasize going through their packs and trying to find the best pheno that meets your particular circumstance (eg Mr. Nice seems to push this angle).

Whether or not this "makes sense", again, depends on your particular goals. If you're a medium to large scale grower, you're almost certainly going to be growing from clones (not ceeds) and therefore finding great keeper "mother" plants is important.

If you're a really small personal grower, then it might make sense in your individual case to ALWAYS start from ceed. If that's the case, stability (ie LACK of different phenos) is probably a useful thing to have in your ceeds, that way you always have some idea of what you're going to get when you start up some plants.
 
tallstraw

tallstraw

Active Member
Thank you so much. This second page was much more of the direction I was trying to head. And you all really answered what I asked. Is there a place I can go that lists these desired phenos for different strains if they have one? Whenever I search nothing comes up. Because I don't know the names of the prized phenos so I cant look them up to see what they look like. I don't need you to do the work for me. I just don't know of all the resource websites most people do. Im just looking for a website name. I can research each on my own from there. Thanks guys. If we could even start a pheno type thread that'd be great. I might do that. So people have a quick reference guide. Plsu I'll learn along the way. Hopefully this makes sense. Im worried I'm not making sense lol
 
Jogro

Jogro

Well-Known Member
tallstraw said:
Is there a place I can go that lists these desired phenos for different strains if they have one?
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Doubt it. So far as I know, there is no "pheno" database. Not exactly sure how you would create one anyway.
If you're interested in particular strains, its probably better to solicit opinions on them (and phenos) from those who have grown them.

Whenever I search nothing comes up. Because I don't know the names of the prized phenos so I cant look them up to see what they look like. I don't need you to do the work for me. I just don't know of all the resource websites most people do. Im just looking for a website name. I can research each on my own from there. Thanks guys. If we could even start a pheno type thread that'd be great. I might do that. So people have a quick reference guide. Plsu I'll learn along the way. Hopefully this makes sense. Im worried I'm not making sense lol
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I think I understand what you're asking, but again, no I don't think there is any such site. You'd have a hard time finding good pictures of most strains/lines, let alone a comprehensive database listing every possible pheno from every possible strain!

More important, I think you're asking the wrong thing. The fact is, only a small number of well-known strains have particular phenos that have their own names/identities that have currency in the cannabis community. The overwhelming majority of strains that put out different phenos don't put out ones that are so unique yet repeatable that they get their own names.

In my opinion, instead of asking about which "name" phenos might be associated with which strains, I think you'd really be much better served figuring out exactly what it is you're looking for, for yourself, and then trying to match those needs with particular strains.

Pick the "right" strain and maybe ALL the phenos will be a good fit for you. Pick the wrong one and maybe none will.
 
racerboy71

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
i like seedfinder.eu for most of my strain info..

not sure if they really get into different pheno types or not, but still a pretty valuable database none the less.. :D
 
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