Planning my first grow. Would like some criticism.

canndo said:

shake it up - you want the spawn bed you are going to case as flat as possible. It will mend just fine either way - most cases you wait only a day or so before you case anyway, all you need to see is that the kerenels are again fully covered in mycelium.

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You may have misunderstood.

Think of a 4:1, spawn to sub. Multilayered. The sub layers have a 1:1 mix. The spawn layers are just spawn. I can have a 1:1 sub layer on the top, or pure sub if desired, and even it out as needed. In the PURE spawn layers, would it be better for the spawn to be both forked and shaken for an approximate even layer, with sub (1:1) in and out from the next layer occasionally, or is it better for it to be the pure spawn layer to be shaken and "even", or would it not matter.

My preference is to allow for the forked chunks simply because when I do a final shake, sometime those fuckers are NOT breaking up and I have to fork it anyway, and then I'm looking to rationalize my lack of shaking.

And no, I do not have a tire.

canndo said:

you case anyway, all you need to see is that the kerenels are again fully covered in mycelium.

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#1: I hope you may lay out with a substrate, rather than case.

#2: So I should NOT wait a couple of days after it SEEMS to be done to see the myc hit the sides of the glass? I'm never sure it is truly done until then.

testtime said:

You may have misunderstood.

Think of a 4:1, spawn to sub. Multilayered. The sub layers have a 1:1 mix. The spawn layers are just spawn. I can have a 1:1 sub layer on the top, or pure sub if desired, and even it out as needed. In the PURE spawn layers, would it be better for the spawn to be both forked and shaken for an approximate even layer, with sub (1:1) in and out from the next layer occasionally, or is it better for it to be the pure spawn layer to be shaken and "even", or would it not matter.

My preference is to allow for the forked chunks simply because when I do a final shake, sometime those fuckers are NOT breaking up and I have to fork it anyway, and then I'm looking to rationalize my lack of shaking.

And no, I do not have a tire.

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I simply blend the kernels into the substrate, no layering at all, the effort is to have each kernel 3/4 inch from each other kernel in 3 dimentions if that makes any sense.

if your substrate rate is so high that you have predominantly spawn then you will not get the expansion rate that is the point of spawned substrate. If you are combining a layer of spawn with a layer of substrate you will have uneaven growth and not be able to orchestrate your flush.

the entire point of orchestration is to have the mycelium just barely having consumed the most amount of nutrient possible, brining the most amount of power to your pins which will have been set just after that maxiumum growth.

If you have inequal growth, some from pure spawn and others from more or less pure substrate you will have lost some of the vigor of the mushroom before you set about pinning.


These things are just methods of getting the most possible from your grow and as you know are not necessary, being that pf tek still works even while violating every understanding of how the mushroom reacts. PF tek has the points that were innoculated first depleated of their nutrient in bands so you are never getting a creshendo of energy but instead simply relying on the last portions of the cake for your fruit.

If you shake early you will not have that problem, do not allow your kernels to "knit" before you begin the next step - and if for some reason you can't pour your grain out on time, continue to shake so that they will not grow together. You will have lost some of the nutrients but it will still work well.

be careful - more than a few friends have cut their hands but if you shake early enough you will find that hitting the jars just isn't that hard.

And, you can look into bags.

Remember also that if you pierce kernels with your fork you run the risk of implanting contamination. The mycelium is so established that it might not be apparent early on that you have broken the natural contamination barrier but you may find that your substrate rots from the center causing no end of headaches and limiting your flushes.

testtime said:

#1: I hope you may lay out with a substrate, rather than case.

#2: So I should NOT wait a couple of days after it SEEMS to be done to see the myc hit the sides of the glass? I'm never sure it is truly done until then.

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Case case case - that is the real key. I know that many folks claim that casing is unimportant but I have posted several pictures that could not occur in an uncased substrate, let along be picked without serious damage to your continued cropping.

All you need to do is ensure that each kernel is fully covered - you can see the fuzz rebounding after your last shake, at this point you are good to case.

canndo said:

Case case case - that is the real key. I know that many folks claim that casing is unimportant but I have posted several pictures that could not occur in an uncased substrate, let along be picked without serious damage to your continued cropping.

All you need to do is ensure that each kernel is fully covered - you can see the fuzz rebounding after your last shake, at this point you are good to case.

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Got that. I always do. AFTER I lay it out with substrate and let it sit until fully covered.

Casing material is different than substrate material, and casing only goes on the top, as opposed to substrate (coir, verm, gypsum, coffee, diatomacious earth) which is mixed in and adds moisture and nutrients. Casing is only semi-nutritious (peat , verm, gypsum, oyster shell, lime) and is used as both a pin tigger / microenvironment / source of moisture and calcium and a bit of nutrition.

Are we not doing the same thing, yet possibly calling it something else?

testtime said:

Got that. I always do. AFTER I lay it out with substrate and let it sit until fully covered.

Casing material is different than substrate material, and casing only goes on the top, as opposed to substrate (coir, verm, gypsum, coffee, diatomacious earth) which is mixed in and adds moisture and nutrients. Casing is only semi-nutritious (peat , verm, gypsum, oyster shell, lime) and is used as both a pin tigger / microenvironment / source of moisture and calcium and a bit of nutrition.

Are we not doing the same thing, yet possibly calling it something else?

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Nope - I thought you pleaded that you didn't want to case - don't know where I got that. looks like you have it down quite well. If you are layering spawn and substrate - stop - you are hurting your final result. Yes, your substrate must be fully colonized but need not be consumed, knitted, solidified, whathave you. The grains will never be fully consumed and they are from the outside only - they are never invaded except where they may have burst.

in the end you will see tiny carroway seed looking things in a fully consumed state in the middle of a thick white "cheese". Or have you already seen all of this?

Ugh, I need to get a Camera, my EVO 4G's Camera quite frankly is shit for the price I payed for this thing.

Anyways, my LCs look to have quite a bit of mycellium growth in the bottom. They've all went from slight sediment in the bottom to loads of little bubbles of neat stuff in the bottom. I PC'd a few of those pint jars this morning, including some new Liquid Cultures (ones that are... well they were supposed to be clearer, I think I slightly burned the karo PCing for 90 minutes at 15 PSI with my grains - though it's not as dark as this honey is).

I'll be taking a large sample from each LC on Tuesday and inoculating two jars of each strain to check for contams. My current LCs are THAT dark that I'll need to cultivate to find out if it's contaminated. However doubtful I am that any of them are contaminated because I was OVERLY cautious about sterilization, to the point I had an rubbing alcohol soaked towel in the bottom of my glovebox and ensuring to wipe everything down BEFORE it was inoculated and flame sterilizing the hell out of the needles between each inoculation.

On another note, I discovered adding a small amount of coffee grains to my rye berries isn't the greatest idea ever. It seems the coffee grains and rye together don't mesh well when trying to steam off water... Then again the coulinder I was using wasn't... very well shaped to say the least and it didn't drain very well. So one of my jars was a bit water logged. The rest tumbled very well. Going to check them again and see if I should abort any of the jars before wasting myc on them due to too much moisture.

Update on my jars:

7/8 Koh Samui jars have been shaken.
5/8 B+ jars have been shaken
3/8 Golden Teacher jars have been shaken

A few of my Koh Samui jars post shake (no shit, literally within 16 hours) are showing signs of mycellium growth patches everywhere. It seems to me Koh Samui's mycellium growth is outrageously aggressive - That or I'm seeing pure white cob-web mold everywhere, which I doubt tremendously. Hopefully the fruits follow the same pattern and go crazy.

Will post more updates Monday night or Tuesday after inoculating the new jars.

Coffee grounds - no point.


I see so many exotic laundry lists of ingredients for substrates. A little examination of the habits of the mushroom indicate that it will eat anything with little or no appreciation for what it is - it creates its own enzimes and if the PH is right it will just go, no need for exotics for an organism that will actually consume coir and straw.

Good point, canndo.

One jar of Koh Samui down. Peeked at the jars before bed tonight and one of the jars of KS was completely littered with green growth.

23/24 jars remain

Alembic said:

Good point, canndo.

One jar of Koh Samui down. Peeked at the jars before bed tonight and one of the jars of KS was completely littered with green growth.

23/24 jars remain

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Take it in stride, the object is the rhythm, the persistance, the flow - So long as your contamination rate is not 100 percent you will always be fine.

I think I have cobweb mold in two of my Ks, I have a lot of dime sized myc growth, and around the growth seems to be a lot of light grey-ish growth. Should I give it a day to make sure? Or toss it without looking back?

the reason one would toss immediately is if their discovery is imenently liable to sporulate. You do not want your contamination points to do that unless your jar is sealed off. Other than that, you can wait to see what color you get - but if it is greyish, it is never, ever the mycelium you are seeking to grow.

Two more K Trich Contams. I must have really fucked something up with my sterilization procedures, possibly didn't sterilize enough of the needle on a couple K injections. Learned something!


All but 2 jars have been shaken at least once, six jars have been shaken twice. No additional signs of contams, and especially no sign of any type of larva growing in my jars (lol...)

Inoc'd two quart jars and a new LC of each strain. They're at a friend's house being forgotten about for a week. I have two dozen quart jars ready to be inoc'd, however I'm waiting to see what happens with those new jars. If they're contam free and growing rapidly by the middle of next week, they're all getting inoculated.

Quick update, I have 3 jars at 100% capacity. I'm not really in the situation I can fruit anything, so I'm going to doing grain transfers and, hopefully, have 40ish jars to play with by the time I can fruit.

Alembic said:

Quick update, I have 3 jars at 100% capacity. I'm not really in the situation I can fruit anything, so I'm going to doing grain transfers and, hopefully, have 40ish jars to play with by the time I can fruit.

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What do you mean you are not in a position to fruit? If you have grain in a jar, you can simply case thet grain - in the jar, and put a baggie over the tiop. Spray it lightly every day and you will get a nice couple of flushes.

canndo said:

What do you mean you are not in a position to fruit? If you have grain in a jar, you can simply case thet grain - in the jar, and put a baggie over the tiop. Spray it lightly every day and you will get a nice couple of flushes.

Click to expand...

That or jus make a real simple fruiting chamber.. 40 jars sounds nice tho too lol

wow do i have alot to learn then, I am an old school farmer who goes out to the (shetland pony field) on a misty humid morning(clouds hanging to the ground) then go hunting in 2-3 foot grass, here its panoleus sub. which are quite nice in tea's. I have read this whole thread and looks like i have some studying to do.

I moved out of the place I was in and with a buddy's family. Out of respect, I'm not in a position to fruit. I have all of my jars at a buddy's house who's keeping them warm and safe.

Inc fruiting, I have at LEAST 12 jars fully colonized, another 20 inoc'd and going, 15 or so sterilized, and another 10-15 ready to sterilize.

Update:

I got my jars back from my buddy today...

Original 24 inoculations:
2 Jars haven't done much of anything
3 Jars Are FINALLY starting to take off
4 Jars have fallen to contaminactions
6 Jars are FULLY colonized
9 Jars are 95% or so.

I believe my buddy overshook the jars while they were there, slowing down colonization rates. Though, no big deal.

6 Inoculations from Liquid Cultures:
All 6 have come out contamination FREE. They are spreading AMAZINGLY and the mycellium growth is VERY healthy.

Original 6 Liquid Cultures:
All seem to be contamination free!

Three Quart Jar LCs with caro/water:

These... I think failed (mostly). They all caramelized as I over cooked the caro. The jars are showing what seems to be slight growth, though I'm not 100% sure, though confident it is growth, it still could be sediment from the caro caramelization.

Tomorrow's plans:
I'll be starting a couple small bulk grows using the slatting tek from mycotopia - http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16916629#16916629

As well, I have 15 jars sterilized and ready for grain transfers. I'll be doing grain transfers, 5 of each strain, and starting even more jars to the road of shrooming.

I'll post a load of pictures tomorrow or Sunday.