Plants have consciousness

hillbill said:

If it, in fact, exists.

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I believe quantum entanglement is but a mere speck of a glimpse into our lack of understanding and true infinitesimal hindrances on understanding.

Ego is still our downfall. And we claim intelligence still. LOL.

Humanity is and always has been at the pinnacle of human understanding and technology and seemingly unable to comprehend that we are unable to comprehend what we have not yet imagined.

Yes plants must be conscious as only vegetables would vote for biden

puffdatchronic said:

Yes plants must be conscious as only vegetables would vote for biden

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Wrong thread.

Best wishes.

mudballs said:

Freud says,

• The id is the only component of personality that is present from birth.
• This aspect of personality is entirely unconscious and includes instinctive and primitive behaviors

Peer reviewed source

Herein lies my definition of consciousness. The baby is aware it needs momma titty. and is aware it can squeeze its hands to hold on while its muscles fire in the right sequence to suckle milk. It's not conscious of it. The plant is aware it needs light, so tretches nodal spacing to reach canopy of competitors. It is not conscious of this act.
The baby feels pain when pinched, the plant wilts when damaged. Still not conscious, just primitive unconscious chained behavior.
In Sigmund Freud's psychoanalytic theory of personality, the unconscious mind is defined as a reservoir of feelings, thoughts, urges, and memories that outside of conscious awareness.
Source
The plant has urges, memories, and very well may have thoughts and feelings, arguably yes. But it is not conscious of them. The awareness you speak of begins in the ego.
I acknowledge the magical unknowable depth of reality you mentioned, it's just that my side of this thread is plants have an unconscious relationship with the universe. Heck i guess id go so far as saying every living organism has a soul even...just not conscious of it.

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You are describing self-consciousness, well a form of it. A dog doesn’t know it’s hungry. It just reacts to a feeling. So do most things. Even you as u were born. You weren’t aware of yourself you were just aware, conscious.

To put it another way consciousness is impersonal.

Soon as it becomes personal we hold a position. When we hold a position it always has the potential to be under threat from another outside force.

That’s why everything went ‘wrong/imbalanced when a monkey became self-conscious and started for the first time in earths history to personally possess objects within and outside of itself.

A cow doesn’t personally protect its calf. It’s an instinctual reaction. Like you seeing a baby crying in a river you’d feel a reaction before your mind thinks about it. There is no self in that desire to help. The self happens a split second after when you think, should I go help or how can I help etc etc

hillbill said:

Again. We, as humans may not be able to recognize, understand or even be aware of the possible consciousness of non human based consciousness.

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Heres the secret. We can. It’s now! This very moment... think of it it goes. Try to quantify it no chance. Yet it can be experienced! And that is in his eternal moment - now

I think it has to do with the fact that humans are emotionally-linked to all the living things they take responsibility for. You start a plant from a seed and you have to dedicate your time to it everyday. That's how we become linked to our plants. When the time comes to chop them, many people (especially home growers) feel a sadness that the living thing they interacted with for so long will now be ended by the same hand that fed and watered them and kept them alive. Seems kinda Hansel and Gretel-ish where we are the witch fattening up the kids! I digress...

After I watched a few videos of hammer orchids, I stopped wondering whether or not different types of life forms could interact so specifically. They must be able to understand the world outside of themselves in some kind of way for that to even exist. How could a plant make itself look and smell like a female wasp and know when to bloom so that the male wasps are around? Evolution? Yes...but a design that's so specific, that if one of the two organisms went extinct, then so would the other! What can we all extrapolate from THAT?

tstick said:

I think it has to do with the fact that humans are emotionally-linked to all the living things they take responsibility for. You start a plant from a seed and you have to dedicate your time to it everyday. That's how we become linked to our plants. When the time comes to chop them, many people (especially home growers) feel a sadness that the living thing they interacted with for so long will now be ended by the same hand that fed and watered them and kept them alive. Seems kinda Hansel and Gretel-ish where we are the witch fattening up the kids! I digress...

After I watched a few videos of hammer orchids, I stopped wondering whether or not different types of life forms could interact so specifically. They must be able to understand the world outside of themselves in some kind of way for that to even exist. How could a plant make itself look and smell like a female wasp and know when to bloom so that the male wasps are around? Evolution? Yes...but a design that's so specific, that if one of the two organisms went extinct, then so would the other! What can we all extrapolate from THAT?

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We do get emotionally attached to things that’s human natures.

I’ve become aware of the truth that nothing dies for everything is.

Amazingly if u really think about it death as an end is just an assumption. In fact it’s just unknown and as humans are reliant on past that terrifies us - we love to know! Or think we know...

Well that’s a great subject!

The problem lies within the misunderstanding of the evolutionary system. Common knowledge is Darwin’s theory. That things randomly happened to look the way they do and survived. What nonsense xD

The stick insect did not look like a stick insect from countless errors, that would take an incredible amount of time to randomly appear. Never mind the vast complexity of life itself. Also if things did randomly happen then where are these fossilised retards? The stages in what these animals had to
Go through?

Amazingly the Earth has a psychic brain. What do we quantify as a brain? A physical gloopy mass or the result of intelligence?

I would say intelligence defines a brain. And intelligence is like a massive unlimited scale.

Earth has its own intelligence and its in you reading these words. That same intelligence went from the first cell division until this very moment. The whole purpose is for it to create a being which is able of harbouring it’s psychic brain. Essentially it’s replicated itself in matter and entered it.

There is a phenomenal book that everyone should read. It’s pretty much explains what im trying to say but much better and in more detail.

A small part goes on about how thin layer of membrane in behind the eye dissolved and this triggered sunlight to enter the pineal gland which is at the centre of the brain.

The pineal gland is in most animals even a crocodile - yet it’s not active. Only humans are. Why?

Because we are self-conscious. We are aware of being aware. How funny? Haha.

Life is a miracle - a true working of a genius in disguise...


The origins of man and the universe by Barry Long is the book.

Not everything stated as facts are, in fact, factually accurate or even knowable.
Such certainty baffles me.

hillbill said:

Not everything stated as facts are, in fact, factually accurate or even knowable.
Such certainty baffles me.

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If there is no truth (facts) then we are doomed but luckily that’s not the case lol

How can I be so sure? Because I am. I’m here now experiencing a human. It’s undeniable. That is a fact.

How is that hard to understand? Just pause and stop. Don’t think - thinking is just past not present. This very moment which is so overlooked yet is the very moment anything can happen in.

Nutty sKunK said:

How is that hard to understand? Just pause and stop. Don’t think - thinking is just past not present.

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Now you're asking a sentient entity to suspend self awareness, which would be unconscious life, and attributing conscious self awareness to non sentient entities, plants.

People been smoking too much on this thread.

mudballs said:

Now you're asking a sentient entity to suspend self awareness, which would be unconscious life, and attributing conscious self awareness to non sentient entities, plants.

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Awareness of self is something we establish over time after birth.

You’re not born aware of yourself are you?

When you’re not self conscious you’re just conscious. Like a baby. Here in the present moment. Which is most certainly not unconscious.

We all started of as babies then slowly the sense of self develops. Likes, dislikes, opinions and all other self aware traits build over time. But all those traits are supported by consciousness itself. You don’t need to be self awareness to feel hungry, to feel the warmth of fire the sea and on your toes. You just have to be conscious! If you were to be unconscious you’d just be a heap on the floor lol

Saying a plant is not conscious is an assumption. You might say that saying it does have consciousness is also an assumption. So how do we know the truth?

Well how did we get from plants to insects? Where is that stepping stone in nature huh? Where did everything get its awareness from?

Nutty sKunK said:

Saying a plant is not conscious is an assumption. You might say that saying it does have consciousness is also an assumption. So how do we know the truth?

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Well at least we're on equal footing finally...took me a few posts but we got there

mudballs said:

Well at least we're on equal footing finally...took me a few posts but we got there

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You missed the most important part. How did animals gain consciousness by evolving from plants? Truth is life even a single cell has consciousness.

Nutty sKunK said:

You missed the most important part. How did animals gain consciousness by evolving from plants? Truth is life even a single cell has consciousness.

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This is your "assumption" and that's fine. We still disagree on the definition of consciousness. I hold to the Freudian Interpretation, whereas your position holds to Taoism, Hinduism, with a smidge of pagan Wiccan animism...which i don't dismiss out of hand.im very spiritual.

Many i see here saying 'we cant know, its beyond human understanding' ...well then are we all just talking out of our asses? Speculation...conjecture...
"i reject your reality and substitute my own"
~Adam Savage of Mythbusters
I feel quite certain i did not miss what was the most important part and that is to not let others convince me that i am seeing the world incorrectly.

mudballs said:

This is your "assumption" and that's fine. We still disagree on the definition of consciousness. I hold to the Freudian Interpretation, whereas your position holds to Taoism, Hinduism, with a smidge of pagan Wiccan animism...which i don't dismiss out of hand.im very spiritual.

Many i see here saying 'we cant know, its beyond human understanding' ...well then are we all just talking out of our asses? Speculation...conjecture...
"i reject your reality and substitute my own"
~Adam Savage of Mythbusters
I feel quite certain i did not miss what was the most important part and that is to not let others convince me that i am seeing the world incorrectly.

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I’m not overly familiar with them so can’t say for sure. I know just in my own experience that consciousness transcends matter. I’ve left my physical body many a times through mediation. That is the consciousness that I am, forever.

Humans can know the truth of course, it’s just not an interesting topic for most, doesn’t sell well lol

I don’t want to convince you - I just want to help
You see what I’m saying and see if it rings true. How consciousness entered matter? It’s a mystery. We don’t need to know how. We only need to know that it’s there.

Sounds a little fundamentalist to me. Not Baptist Fundamentalism but the acceptance of unprovable theories and beliefs, none the less.

Nutty sKunK said:

Awareness of self is something we establish over time after birth.

You’re not born aware of yourself are you?

When you’re not self conscious you’re just conscious. Like a baby. Here in the present moment. Which is most certainly not unconscious.

We all started of as babies then slowly the sense of self develops. Likes, dislikes, opinions and all other self aware traits build over time. But all those traits are supported by consciousness itself. You don’t need to be self awareness to feel hungry, to feel the warmth of fire the sea and on your toes. You just have to be conscious! If you were to be unconscious you’d just be a heap on the floor lol

Saying a plant is not conscious is an assumption. You might say that saying it does have consciousness is also an assumption. So how do we know the truth?

Well how did we get from plants to insects? Where is that stepping stone in nature huh? Where did everything get its awareness from?

Click to expand...

Dude I could talk this shit all day, I don't want to read it ffs.