meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
Yeah i just made up a few new batches and did not add any new inputs. Maybe I will just have to get my worm bins set up again and keep them warmer this time around and hone my inputs that way. Thanks again!
Please Critique my soil recipe!
- Thread starter meangreengrowinmachine
- Start date
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Especially since you're using egg shells, IMO. If you overload your soil with Calcium, you WILL lock out Magnesium and that will cause much more issues than not having enough Calcium.
Basalt does in fact come in rock dust form, GRD typically not have basalt in it.
This is because they come from two opposite sources, GRD coming from glaciers and Basalt being the result of volcanic activity. Magma, more specifically. Hence the sulfur content,
Hence the "Fire and Brimstone" saying. Brimstone is quite literally sulfur, the result of things that burn.
This is why forests explode with growth after a fire, because the plants/vegetation being burned to the ground literally saturates the soil below with "bio-char" and high amounts of sulfur due to the trees burning down. Not to mention, the remaining orgnaic matter in the trees/plants that burned.
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
What volume do you apply basalt or do you think i should apply it to my soil?
kratos015
Well-Known Member
I personally use the 4 cups/cuft recommendation and it's done right by me. Coot's reasoning was always that quality Kelp Meal already has loads of trace minerals/elements in it, so Basalt is best because it doesn't throw off the balance of your soil.
Suppose the main thing to ask you would be, does your soil actually need more mineral inputs? If so, what kind? What are you looking to add minerals for?
Minerals do not need to be re-applied at the same frequency that organic amendments do, so odds are if you already have soil inputs in your soil then you're already good to go.
It won't hurt to add basalt into the equation if you do already have minerals, but it may be superfluous in your specific case. If you're just looking for a quick and consistent does of sulfur specifically then foliar feeding with 1/4 tsp of Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulfate) will do the job just fine.
I personally foliar with a mix of 1/4 tsp Epsom Salts, 1/4 tsp liquid kelp/seaweed, and 1tsp ProTekt 1-2 times a week until the last week of flower.
Medskunk
Well-Known Member
I guess you mean "their plants WERE heat stressed". And this is a fact
Cobs need good canopy distance. If i start seedlings with my optic 2 (cobs only) it stays at 42+ inches.
Nice read guys.
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
I have never had any heat issues with cobs at all, in fact they are a lot LESS hot than HPS so I am not sure where people are getting that cobs are warmer. I know that they do need to be a bit further away from your plants then hps but I have 6 plants now all flowering very close to my cobs just due to me not being on top of their height before flipping and they are just fine. I have seen a lot of the people that know a ton about LEDs and have a lot lf experience talk about the cal mag issue with leds and also them needing higher humidity.. i did not understand it all tbh but a lot of it had to do with VPD I believe and how the leaves absorb things?I guess you mean "their plants WERE heat stressed". And this is a fact
Cobs need good canopy distance. If i start seedlings with my optic 2 (cobs only) it stays at 42+ inches.
Nice read guys.
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
Oh my bad you were talking 42 inches at seedlings, that sounds right for sure. I never even risk my seedlings under my cobs for quite a while, I am worried they are too much for them, even dimmed.I guess you mean "their plants WERE heat stressed". And this is a fact
Cobs need good canopy distance. If i start seedlings with my optic 2 (cobs only) it stays at 42+ inches.
Nice read guys.
Medskunk
Well-Known Member
Ye never used hps but i have checked it elsewhere. Saw how hot lights are just by checking the temps after lights off. With the cobs it goes down by 5-8 degrees. Hps was more if i remember correctly. This is my second year with these cobs. Been reading around that their efficiency drops alright and quite fast. We ll see.
How many watts arr those cobs of yours?
How many watts arr those cobs of yours?
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
I have 12 cxb3590s in my 5 x 5 flower room which run about 900 watts and 10 in my smaller room that run about 600. I am in a very cool northern climate basemant so heat is rarely is ever an issue. The exact opposite is actually true this time of year. Especially when trying to flower things since lights out temps are pretty low.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I grow hydroponically, so calcium sulfate gets treated like any other soluble nutrient.Interesting, few links below but regardless I'm very much interested in the information you're referencing as I'd much like to read what you can link me.
The sulfur isotope composition of basaltic rocks - Contributions to Mineralogy and Petrology
The sulfur isotope composition of tholeiitic basalts, olivine alkali basalts and alkalirich undersaturated basalts were investigated. A method of preparation was devised (a) for the extraction of the small amounts of sulfur contained in the rock samples (about 100 ppm S), (b) for the separation...link.springer.com
Sulfur in basaltic magmas
The concentration of S in basaltic magmas at 1 atm pressure is strongly dependent on temperature, the fugacities of oxygen (ƒO2) and sulfur (ƒS2), and…www.sciencedirect.com
Just sources I've found in the past few years is all, still very interested in reading your sources as well though!
Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) has a higher Sulfur content than Basalt, but also comes with the added Calcium content that can harm more than it helps in soil that already has Calcium inputs in it. If your water is heavily calcified such as my own, or your own particular soil blend is already high in Calcium content then you don't want to add Gypsum into the equation. Coots recipe specifically calls for Oyster Shell Flour as a buffer, and includes Crab/Crustacean Meal which also has high calcium content. Coot's worm castings also have a high calcium content due to him using OSF as grit.
If you're inputs are OSF+Crab/Crustacean Meal, you have plenty Calcium and using Gypsum could end up complicating things if you raise your Calcium levels too high.
The issue isn't so much Calcium toxicity, but the fact that you'll experience Mg lockout well before you experience Ca toxicity.
Calcium by nature will also buffer pH, this is why it is common in pretty much every "liming" agent. Odds are, people using a liming agent of some sort (Dolomite Lime/OSF/etc) are more likely to experience issues using Gypsum as opposed to Basalt.
This is also why I stress knowing your inputs.
The issue isn't that Gypsum isn't a great ingredient, it's knowing what it is putting into your soil and how it reacts with your other inputs into the equation.
I have not been exposed to this calcium-tox hypothesis, but would like to point out
1) calcium is not a buffer, but bicarbonate is.
2) in any natural soil (excluding supersoils in bales) there is enough alkalinity to precipitate excess calcium.
3) In soil, whose ion transport is actively managed by the microherd, I’ve seen dolomite lime recommended. Ca and Mg are provided as insoluble rock that is activated by soil flora. I’d use it ahead if Ca-only like oyster shell.
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
Depending and what kind of cobs you have from all i have read they will last quite a long time without degrading in any way. That really is part of the draw to them. From what I have seen they should last basically your lifetime with little to no degradation. Can you source where you are seeing otherwise I would love to read up on it and get all the info I can! Thank you!!
Medskunk
Well-Known Member
Proper dope
Medskunk
Well-Known Member
Maybe the new ones go for a lifetime? My research on them was more than 18months ago, before i make the buy. Lifetime? Well im in the right field then. COBS for life then haha
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
Sorry i guess they are rated for about 50,000 hours. So not a life time but about 5 years if run 24 hours a day. Even after that though I do not think they degradation is that bad, and hell by then I'm sure there will be something new to buy up lol
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input man! I have added pelletier dolomite lime to this batch along with ground up egg shells so hopefully I should not see any ca mg issues with this batch and I can keep up with that perforations going forward.
kratos015
Well-Known Member
The potential Ca issues don't come from soluble Ca, but from the insoluble Ca in the form of Crab/Crustacean Meals, OSF, both of which are bicarbonate and both common ingredients in soil recipes.
While you're right that the alkalinity of peat moss is typically enough to keep pH balanced, the issue is whether or not one's water is calcified in conjunction with inputs in the soil.
Calcium in water supply is also insoluble, which can result in excess salt buildup in your soil akin to that of scaling on one's home faucets. I know next to nothing about hydroponics, but I'd imagine this build up isn't much of an issue in hydro due to consistently changing your reservoirs?
My soil had both Crab Meal, and OSF for my pH buffer instead of dolomite lime. No issue with this living in California as my water wasn't heavily calcified.
When I moved out of state, using the same soil recipe I suddenly experienced tons of lockouts due to a 8.0+ pH. Turned out my well water was also heavily calcified, to the point you could see scaling on the bottom of my fabric pots.
Even the alkalinity of the peat moss could not compete with the combinations of crab meal, OSF, and my well water. My water is so hard its pretty much liquid lime. Removing the calcium inputs in my soil (Crab Meal and OSF) solved my issues.
Regards.
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
Hmmm do you think that could be the cause of the very high ph of my well water? I have always wondered how in the world it could come out so high in ph yet so low in ppm (granted it was a pretty cheapo meter) and also it feels like the soft water ( when I was a kid we had incredibly hard well water for a long time until we could finally afford a softener and I remeber the change and the feeling of it and felt it when I moved here from city water). My well is also 320ish feet through pretty much straight clay also if that gives you any indication. Well water test next month though so I will for sure find out more!
Also with all this... you think basalt over gypsum in my mix since I have so many Ca inputs already right?
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
I do not however have any issues with lime build up or anything though
kratos015
Well-Known Member
I did, apologies for the typo.I guess you mean "their plants WERE heat stressed". And this is a fact
Cobs need good canopy distance. If i start seedlings with my optic 2 (cobs only) it stays at 42+ inches.
Nice read guys.
Cobs seriously need that much distance though? That's insane! LEDs sure have come a long way. I've been wanting a COB to play around with for a while, but I could never justify it. It'd take me a while to see savings, as I'd need quite a few COBs to replace my 1000w DE no?
Regardless, I rarely do indoors anymore so I suppose its a moot point. But I'm interested in the knowledge regardless!
I imagine COBs are like HID lights, the issue is hardly with the heat itself but the light intensity. It's theoretically possible to have enough cooling in your grow, combined with a vented hood to nullify any heat related consequences. However, the intensity of the light itself on the plants is what will cause problems.
In fact, not many people know this but too much light can actually inhibit photosynthesis as it literally causes cell death. This makes sense when you consider the sun's cycle and how it moves, outdoor plants never get direct sunlight for the full amount of time the sun is out as the sun is only overhead for a few hours out of the daylight.
I've actually practiced dimming my lights to mimic this. The last 4 hours of lights on, I'll dim my light down to 600w. Then, when lights come on again it's still at 600w. I change the light back to the full 1000w for 4-6 hours (depending on veg or flower) and then dim it back to 600w for the last few hours of the day. I've experienced no downsides, and some strains have actually given me better results.
Back to LEDs though, I remember when they first came out that CO2 supplementation wasn't viable due to the lack of intensity from the LEDs. But if LEDs are truly as intense as you say, and the need for higher humidity due to VPD then wouldn't supplementing with CO2 provide COB users with better results?
I know absolutely nothing of LEDs, but reading your post the first thing I thought of was adding extra CO2 to the mix.
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Depends on what is in your water. Find out what is in your water before you make changes to your soil.
That being said, if you're not getting any scaling on your faucets then Calcium likely isn't the issue for you here. But, as "Cannabineer" pointed out, it isn't so much the Calcium but the bicarbonate that buffers the pH. Calcium bicarbonate just happens to be the most common.
Once you get the results from your water test, you'll know for sure.
That said, are you experiencing any issues with pH in your soil itself? Because your water's pH could be an 8.0, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it will affect the pH of your soil itself unless it is a strong enough buffer to actually have an effect on the soil's pH itself.
Also, consider that most of what I say is regurgitating Clackamas Coot's knowledge, combined with my own personal experience and the knowledge resulting from it. That said, his original mineral blend was 4 cups per cuft: I believe it was 1.5c GRD, .5c gypsum, 1c basalt, and 1c OSF. He then switched it to a full 4c of basalt and nothing else, due to a variety of factors.
For one, he stopped incorporating OSF into his soil mix in favor of giving it to his worms as worms love OSF for grit. This enables him to use his EWC as a pH buffer. The idea of EWC as a pH buffer seems crazy, but if you make them yourself like Coots does it is possible. Sources below.
He also eliminated gypsum due to its calcium content, citing that he only needed the sulfur from it and not the calcium. This is why he favors using Basalt exclusively, as do I. That being said, it depends on your own personal soil blend, the inputs you're using/have available, and your water.
As for GRD, it is mediocre at best when compared to other mineral inputs.
Worm Casting
No matter your growing goals, worm castings can help you get there faster and more efficiently. Let’s look at the benefits of worm castings and why you should consider this soil amendment for your own
sohumsoils.com
"Through digestion they help release soil nutrients such as nitrogen, magnesium, phosphorous, potassium and calcium. In fact, so much calcium is released from the soil they ingest that the pH of worm castings is often close to neutral (7.0)."
"Castings act as a buffer against soil pH extremes and facilitate nutrient absorption."
What Are The Benefits of Worm Castings in Your Home & Garden?
Learn about the benefits of organic worm castings packed with plant food nutrients & minerals perfect for all plants & flowers in your indoor or outdoor garden.
earthwormtechnologies.com
"and finally, high quality worm castings buffer soil pH since they tend to run pH neutral"
I've learned a lot, both through research and mostly fucking things up. I certainly don't know everything, but I'm happy to share what little knowledge I've gathered throughout the past decade.
HTH