Possible MG Deficiency Week 3

C

ConMer710

Member
Hi,

Today is the end of week 3 of my grow. Yesterday I noticed some dark brown spots on the edges of some of the leaves. To me it looked like an MG deficiency. I also noticed that some of the leaves seem to be drooping or possibly curled down on the end. I think this might have to do with them recovering from a slight N toxicity.

  • Light cycle: 20 on / 4 off
  • Nutrients: Alternating between 1/2 strength CANNA VEGA, rhino skin and big bud.
  • Lights: 450 Watt HIPARGROW COB led and 4x QB120 5000k (the qbs were installed yesterday) these currently sit 3 ft above the ground because I did not want the new boards to burn them
  • I plan to move them to a RDWC with bennies next week
  • Have a CO2 tank with regulator for CO2

Any advice would be much appreciated!
 

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OneHitDone

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
ConMer710 said:
Hi,

Today is the end of week 3 of my grow. Yesterday I noticed some dark brown spots on the edges of some of the leaves. To me it looked like an MG deficiency. I also noticed that some of the leaves seem to be drooping or possibly curled down on the end. I think this might have to do with them recovering from a slight N toxicity.

  • Light cycle: 20 on / 4 off
  • Nutrients: Alternating between 1/2 strength CANNA VEGA, rhino skin and big bud.
  • Lights: 450 Watt HIPARGROW COB led and 4x QB120 5000k (the qbs were installed yesterday) these currently sit 3 ft above the ground because I did not want the new boards to burn them
  • I plan to move them to a RDWC with bennies next week
  • Have a CO2 tank with regulator for CO2

Any advice would be much appreciated!
Click to expand...
Where's your roots?
I would say you have a major air-pruning situation going on there.
Need to cover those plugs with something light tight or get them in some media.
No roots = undiagnosable issues :peace:
 
ltecato

ltecato

Well-Known Member
My advice is check your pH. If it is within the correct range, add some epsom salts. If the pH is out of balance, fix that because it could be screwing up the availability of nutes.
 
C

ConMer710

Member
@OneHitDone as of now they are just in the seed starter. The stuff on the bottom is a granular root inoculate. I can see the roots growing in the ruts of the seed tray. I covered those with more root of the root stuff for today.

I didnt even think of air pruning occurring. I'm going to get them in the rdwc tomorrow instead of waiting until the weekend.

@Itecato I check the ph once per day. I believe the standard ph is 5.6-6.2 but I go from 5.2-6.2 since that is the range reccomend on the CANNA bottle. Should I avoid going lower than 5.6?
 
ltecato

ltecato

Well-Known Member
ConMer710 said:


@Itecato I check the ph once per day. I believe the standard ph is 5.6-6.2 but I go from 5.2-6.2 since that is the range reccomend on the CANNA bottle. Should I avoid going lower than 5.6?
Click to expand...


I'm not very knowledgeable about hydro. The pH difference doesn't not seem all that significant. Is the CANNA Vega supposed to be supplying the magnesium? If it is, something is out of kilter. Just to be safe, I would tweak it to 5.6 to see if that helps. Also, I've heard that growing in coir, if that's what you're doing, requires some kind of special treatment to ensure nute availability, but I don't recall the specifics right now.

I know with non-cannabis plants growing in dirt, epsom salts can have a really fast effect if they are magnesium-deficient. Like, for scraggly rosebushes, you can put as little as a teaspoon of epsom in a gallon of water, pour it around a plant, and within just couple of days see a big difference in how vigorous the plant looks.
 
Kid Kannabi5

Kid Kannabi5

Well-Known Member
Ok. Your problem is no roots! If you are planning on using rdwc from now on I would build an aeroponics cloner. I do dwc myself, I use an old turbo-cloner and have a ball of roots in 5 days. Those root cubes or peat-pots u are using look way too wet. Be careful. Those will put debris into your system. Rockwool cubes would have been better. They aren't air pruning themselves. They are just growing slowly. Once your roots are penetrating the sides of the cubes, stick em right into your baskets and get those oxygenated nutrients flowing, and they should take off. Ph between 5.5-6.0 in dwc or rdwc. You are talking three weeks in and recovering from deficiency when they are not even plants yet! After they are rooted you can start wk 1. When u take cuttings they are going through the most traumatic experience of their life-cycle. So some signs of stress are normal. Good luck.
 
Kid Kannabi5

Kid Kannabi5

Well-Known Member
ConMer710 said:
Hi,

Today is the end of week 3 of my grow. Yesterday I noticed some dark brown spots on the edges of some of the leaves. To me it looked like an MG deficiency. I also noticed that some of the leaves seem to be drooping or possibly curled down on the end. I think this might have to do with them recovering from a slight N toxicity.

  • Light cycle: 20 on / 4 off
  • Nutrients: Alternating between 1/2 strength CANNA VEGA, rhino skin and big bud.
  • Lights: 450 Watt HIPARGROW COB led and 4x QB120 5000k (the qbs were installed yesterday) these currently sit 3 ft above the ground because I did not want the new boards to burn them
  • I plan to move them to a RDWC with bennies next week
  • Have a CO2 tank with regulator for CO2

Any advice would be much appreciated!
Click to expand...
Another thing I noticed after looking at your pics again is lack of a humidity tent of some sort. Also when taking the cuttings cut the leaves in half. Speeds up rooting. (Helps with transpiration). Curious what air hose is for??
 
J

joe9000

Well-Known Member
whats your temps??3 week old seedlings shouldnt realy have deficiency yet.Is possible but iv grew loads and ran out of chems and brought up on just water for a couple weeks.As said abouve cover roots.
 
OneHitDone

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
joe9000 said:
whats your temps??3 week old seedlings shouldnt realy have deficiency yet.Is possible but iv grew loads and ran out of chems and brought up on just water for a couple weeks.As said abouve cover roots.
Click to expand...
It's clear those are seedlings seeing the opposing petioles.
Dude needs to get the cubes out of the light and make sure they aren't being overwatered.
For some reason he has no roots busing out of the sides of the cubes.

OP, drop the rhino skin and big bud shit.
You should only be using base till these girls get back to health - follow canna's recommended dose for early veg
 
C

ConMer710

Member
Kid Kannabi5 said:
Ok. Your problem is no roots! If you are planning on using rdwc from now on I would build an aeroponics cloner. I do dwc myself, I use an old turbo-cloner and have a ball of roots in 5 days. Those root cubes or peat-pots u are using look way too wet. Be careful. Those will put debris into your system. Rockwool cubes would have been better. They aren't air pruning themselves. They are just growing slowly. Once your roots are penetrating the sides of the cubes, stick em right into your baskets and get those oxygenated nutrients flowing, and they should take off. Ph between 5.5-6.0 in dwc or rdwc. You are talking three weeks in and recovering from deficiency when they are not even plants yet! After they are rooted you can start wk 1. When u take cuttings they are going through the most traumatic experience of their life-cycle. So some signs of stress are normal. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear I started these from seed not cuttings.

Edit: Air hose is for CO2
 
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Kid Kannabi5

Kid Kannabi5

Well-Known Member
ConMer710 said:
Just to be clear I started these from seed not cuttings.
Click to expand...
Sorry bro. My bad I should have noticed that. I strictly mess with clones, but I should have noticed the petioles. Regardless you should have a ball of roots. How's your root zone temp? U don't need all that co2 until you are flowering. If it was me. I would cut out the big bud until later in flower. It (big bud) is a PK booster. Rhino skin is a silica product. It helps strengthen the cell walls of your stalks to help keep heavy colas from bending branches as much. I have used both Advanced Nutrients products. Not familiar with the Canna nutrient line. Sounds like thats what you are using for your base. Definately would cut out the big bud for now. Maybe add a root-booster of some sort. The very best money can buy is called "roots accelerator" by "house and garden". Expensive as hell, but goes a long long way. There are several other root "stimulators" on the market for cheaper. I think also maybe since they are seedlings, the roots aren't going to come "spraying" out the sides like a clone. Maybe the tap roots are just growing straight down with little branching off. I would kill the co2 unless you are below ambient levels. I bet they need to go into the hydroton baskets and get your rdwc on. So proper oxygen/nutrient levels are achieved. You said they have tap roots right? Maybe they just need to get started. Just trying to help. I have done a lot of dwc. I want you to get a fat crop!
 
C

ConMer710

Member
Kid Kannabi5 said:
Sorry bro. My bad I should have noticed that. I strictly mess with clones, but I should have noticed the petioles. Regardless you should have a ball of roots. How's your root zone temp? U don't need all that co2 until you are flowering. If it was me. I would cut out the big bud until later in flower. It (big bud) is a PK booster. Rhino skin is a silica product. It helps strengthen the cell walls of your stalks to help keep heavy colas from bending branches as much. I have used both Advanced Nutrients products. Not familiar with the Canna nutrient line. Sounds like thats what you are using for your base. Definately would cut out the big bud for now. Maybe add a root-booster of some sort. The very best money can buy is called "roots accelerator" by "house and garden". Expensive as hell, but goes a long long way. There are several other root "stimulators" on the market for cheaper. I think also maybe since they are seedlings, the roots aren't going to come "spraying" out the sides like a clone. Maybe the tap roots are just growing straight down with little branching off. I would kill the co2 unless you are below ambient levels. I bet they need to go into the hydroton baskets and get your rdwc on. So proper oxygen/nutrient levels are achieved. You said they have tap roots right? Maybe they just need to get started. Just trying to help. I have done a lot of dwc. I want you to get a fat crop!
Click to expand...
I only said to be clear because I wasn't sure if your advice would be different for seed or clone. Trust me I want all the advice I can get. Right now I have 5 gal buckets with 10 in pots. I was thinking about cutting holes in a plastic cup as a mini net pot until they grow can fit in the 10 in net pots. Or I could set-up a top drip system. Any thoughts on this? I won't be able to get this done today because of work but I will get them in hydro tomorrow for sure.

Also I'll cut back on the amount of water and only use cal-mag and CANNA (my base). What do you usually keep your ppm at? Right now we are having some water problems so I am using bottled water so the ppm starts below 50.

EDIT: I planned on using Mycogrow and ancient forest tea for beneficial bacteria. I think the Myco grow will suffice as a root starter since it has different strains of endomycorrhizal bacteria.
 
Kid Kannabi5

Kid Kannabi5

Well-Known Member
ConMer710 said:
I only said to be clear because I wasn't sure if your advice would be different for seed or clone. Trust me I want all the advice I can get. Right now I have 5 gal buckets with 10 in pots. I was thinking about cutting holes in a plastic cup as a mini net pot until they grow can fit in the 10 in net pots. Or I could set-up a top drip system. Any thoughts on this? I won't be able to get this done today because of work but I will get them in hydro tomorrow for sure.

Also I'll cut back on the amount of water and only use cal-mag and CANNA (my base). What do you usually keep your ppm at? Right now we are having some water problems so I am using bottled water so the ppm starts below 50.

EDIT: I planned on using Mycogrow and ancient forest tea for beneficial bacteria. I think the Myco grow will suffice as a root starter since it has different strains of endomycorrhizal bacteria.
Click to expand...
Just use "hydroton" expanded clay pellets (brick colored). Idk if you have used b4 or not. You need to dump the bag in a tote with tons of holes drilled in bottom, or toss in your bath tub. (Might not go over well if married) lol. This is because you have to eash and scrub the crap outta this stuff b4 use. It is covered in a fine dust thay can complicate things down the line. Simply fill your baskets with the washed clay pellets. You want to set your system up to where your buckets fill to about an inch to an inch and a half above bottom of baskets. (In other words the pellet filled baskets should barely be into the nutrient solution. Start your nutrients out at very low levels and steadily raise to full strength. Making sure to keep close observation on how your girls handle the increased nutrients. You just bury your root cubes in the clay pellets so your seedling is standing up straight on its own, with the root cube completely buried in hydroton clay pellets. I have never had good luck with air stones. They always seem to lose effectiveness. So I drill two holes in the top flange of my buckets 180 degrees from eachother. Then I run a separate air hose through each side. Pull enough length through that the air hoses easily reach bottom of the bucket then I put two zinc coated nuts on each side to weigh them to the bottom of bucket. This method has proven superior time and time again for me. If they have strong tap-roots...3 wks is long enough! Start your buckets up. Or at least that's what I would do. Plus lose the big bud for now and try turning off the co2 tank until flower. With more co2 they need more food, more light, higher temps and on. Best wait on that. If your worried I'm wrong, put only one in a bucket and watch it. I bet it will pass the rest in a week.
 
C

ConMer710

Member
Kid Kannabi5 said:
Just use "hydroton" expanded clay pellets (brick colored). Idk if you have used b4 or not. You need to dump the bag in a tote with tons of holes drilled in bottom, or toss in your bath tub. (Might not go over well if married) lol. This is because you have to eash and scrub the crap outta this stuff b4 use. It is covered in a fine dust thay can complicate things down the line. Simply fill your baskets with the washed clay pellets. You want to set your system up to where your buckets fill to about an inch to an inch and a half above bottom of baskets. (In other words the pellet filled baskets should barely be into the nutrient solution. Start your nutrients out at very low levels and steadily raise to full strength. Making sure to keep close observation on how your girls handle the increased nutrients. You just bury your root cubes in the clay pellets so your seedling is standing up straight on its own, with the root cube completely buried in hydroton clay pellets. I have never had good luck with air stones. They always seem to lose effectiveness. So I drill two holes in the top flange of my buckets 180 degrees from eachother. Then I run a separate air hose through each side. Pull enough length through that the air hoses easily reach bottom of the bucket then I put two zinc coated nuts on each side to weigh them to the bottom of bucket. This method has proven superior time and time again for me. If they have strong tap-roots...3 wks is long enough! Start your buckets up. Or at least that's what I would do. Plus lose the big bud for now and try turning off the co2 tank until flower. With more co2 they need more food, more light, higher temps and on. Best wait on that. If your worried I'm wrong, put only one in a bucket and watch it. I bet it will pass the rest in a week.
Click to expand...
I'm waiting for my CO2 meter but I have only been giving them a little burst in the morning and afternoon. I think I may have complicated the process by getting net pots with an elevated core. I'm going to wash the clay tonight so it is ready for tomorrow. Do I need to soak or just rinse the pellets?

If the tap root isnt long enough to touch water do I need to raise water level or change my approach?
 
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