Proof of the existence of an intelligent Creator and what His purpose of mankind is

Nevermind, I won't ask you to explain Higgs Particle, it's not complicated, but requires some in depth thought and explaining. I can read up on it some more later....

But as far as a Pipe dream, I think Not, nor do I think it's an eminent Fact, but somehow it makes sense to me, just can't explain it now, or maybe never will be.... I'll have to study it some more

btw..., I have heard of the Higgs particle.. I just know of it by the more common names given to it.. Anti-Matter and "The God Particle"

I have some thoughts on it, they particularly go against the accepted assumption that it is unrelated to dark matter, but I have other ideas..., however nothing I can conceptualize now, I haven't really studied much on the Subject....

Now, I'm Really glad you brought it up, It is very relative to the whole gravity scenario...

lol its more related to mass... but since we know mass affects gravity

its the reason the large hadron collider was built. no one can detect one (higgs-bosun particle).. modern science has been trying since the idea of the higgs field was proposed in 1967. the higgs field itself may or may not be directly related to the phenomenom of gravitational force being transmitted over large distances, although i think the true benefit to the discovery of one may lead some insight to our understanding of quantum mechanics... of course the problem with quantum mechanics is that everyone agrees it works, but no one really knows HOW it works.. similair to electricity.

have you done any studying of the multiverse theory? that one blows my mind every time

I didn't notice the "metallic weight" posts.
Since I can't find any reference to it in my physics textbook, and a basic google turns up nothing physics related can you cite something?

Even a cloud of hydrogen gas, without metals of any sort, exerts gravity.

And the higgs-boson isn't anti-matter, but it does get called the god particle

ugh. multiverse theory hurts my brane. (rimshot!)

yeah it will put an aching on the old noodle, even when seriously stoned whats interesting about it is how easily it is demonstrated using photons and interference patterns

IAm5toned said:

lol its more related to mass... but since we know mass affects gravity

its the reason the large hadron collider was built. no one can detect one (higgs-bosun particle).. modern science has been trying since the idea of the higgs field was proposed in 1967. the higgs field itself may or may not be directly related to the phenomenom of gravitational force being transmitted over large distances, although i think the true benefit to the discovery of one may lead some insight to our understanding of quantum mechanics... of course the problem with quantum mechanics is that everyone agrees it works, but no one really knows HOW it works.. similair to electricity.

have you done any studying of the multiverse theory? that one blows my mind every time

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No, I haven't but intend on picking up some books about it soon, and right, I don't know much about it, but that was my intended meaning sorta, as you picked it up, thanks...

morgentaler said:

I didn't notice the "metallic weight" posts.
Since I can't find any reference to it in my physics textbook, and a basic google turns up nothing physics related can you cite something?

Even a cloud of hydrogen gas, without metals of any sort, exerts gravity.

And the higgs-boson isn't anti-matter, but it does get called the god particle

ugh. multiverse theory hurts my brane. (rimshot!)

Click to expand...

Part of what I was saying was sarcasm at the time, the other, me being Lazy and not clarifying my meaning, but trying not to confuse, as long as the person get's the point..and the other part was me trying to relay the fact the we are made of atoms, being lazy again, encompassing the elemental Periodic table chart, atomic weight and mass, hence sticking with the metallic scenario if the person still follows my meaning... This was the point I was referring of how gravity can be generated outward..., We are made of atoms, matter itself acts as the current medium... I was still throwing hints of sarcasm

And Yes that was my point intended, even hydrogen exerts its force of gravity on a smaller plume .,

and I think I did confuse antimatter with the higgs boson, when I came across the God Particle and crossed the terms up..

I feel like I'm in a classroom sometimes , ...and yeah, it hurts, especially when your high

But keep me Straight, I need a lil Discipline..

Read back through the posts from the beginning and tell me what you think,

Morgentaler..., Did you ever get a chance to read back over the theory I was stating... It starts around post #190 or #191, just looked and can't remember... I would like to know your thoughts on it, that was the whole point of the "metallic Weight" & gravity examples that I was using.. and horribly twisted up the words.

I assumed you had an interest in what I was saying in concern of metallic weight, since you started researching it..

I know a lot of information is still needed. but with little evidence that is provided to us now, I want to know how realistic the scenario may be? In your opinion...

Okay, I dug back through a lot of stuff, and CJ's points about orphan stars brings up a very good counter argument to the idea you mentioned of gravity originating in black holes at the center of galaxies.
An orphaned star is not only outside of the originating galaxy, it also has to have achieved escape velocity to break from the orbit that the other stars are taking.
Would you not then find evidence of stars dissipating as they broke from the gravity well and lost the bonds that held them together?

I'm only part way through A Briefer History of Time, but I haven't heard of any references to the idea elsewhere. A black hole may provide gravitational stability to a galaxy, but seeing as they are created BY gravity, I don't see how they could be the source of it. Then again, I'm not an astrophysicist, and I read considerably more on biology and genetics Got links to any articles on the subject?

morgentaler said:

Okay, I dug back through a lot of stuff, and CJ's points about orphan stars brings up a very good counter argument to the idea you mentioned of gravity originating in black holes at the center of galaxies.
An orphaned star is not only outside of the originating galaxy, it also has to have achieved escape velocity to break from the orbit that the other stars are taking.
Would you not then find evidence of stars dissipating as they broke from the gravity well and lost the bonds that held them together?

I'm only part way through A Briefer History of Time, but I haven't heard of any references to the idea elsewhere. A black hole may provide gravitational stability to a galaxy, but seeing as they are created BY gravity, I don't see how they could be the source of it. Then again, I'm not an astrophysicist, and I read considerably more on biology and genetics Got links to any articles on the subject?

Click to expand...

Well, to be clear, Black Holes are dense points of Mass, that also make up the Mass of the Galaxy, and the SuperMassive Black HOle exerts it's Gravity exponentially and proportionally just the same as it being any other form of mass.. Hypothectically Speaking

I think I already addressed the Orphan Stars / clusters... Not that I wish not to explain it, it just that it can become to long winded of an explanation again...but they don't drift off, they are ripped from the natural orbit within that galaxy and projected on another course, in which they still could be absorbed again by that galaxy or not, and simply absorbed by another Galaxy, depending upon their trajectory...


I just look at it simply as this.. Mass falls into thhe Gravitational Pull of the SMBH because of it's Mass Density, and this process will continue because the Mass Density of the SMBH will always be greater than the Surrounding Mass, therefore it's gravity will always be exerted on all Matter that surrounds it...
Oh Well, just wanted another opinion,

Here is something to think about.....

The Question was what would happen to Earth if the Sun disappeared? Well... What would happen if the Supermassive Black Hole Disappeared? maybe this hypothetical question can further explain the premise of my general point being made.

and no specific links on the subject, but you can gather information form topics of Supermassive black holes, Dark Matter, Galaxies/ formation.. and get a better understanding of what I'm notioning, or maybe simply not..

Thanks for looking back through it, I know it was kinda Muggy

If the sun disappeared Earth would instantly continue outward on its current vector. (A most entertaining episode of The Univsere). The sudden change in gravitational tidal forces would make it a very, very unpleasant place for us to be (understatement).

If the black hole at the center of the galaxy were to disappear then ditto with the member stars, and the spiral arms of the galaxy would become more of a cloud of matter. Though there would still be gravitational attraction between the individual parts.

Unless you're meaning that the black hole is not the origin of gravity, but rather the primary stabilizing force allowing for solar/planetary masses to interact? A kind of gravitational ambiance in the ballet of the galaxy

well the interesting thing regarding galaxies and black holes:

only spiral galaxies are suspected to have supermassive black holes at the center... its the only force theorized to be strong enough to hold billions of stars in a flat spiral trajectory.

not all galaxies are spiral by definition...

...so what is holding the other galaxies, the ones that are not the spiral type, together? is it the gravitational force of the combined star systems that make up these uncommon galaxies? or perhaps something else?
there are at least 2 other known types of galaxy, besides spiral; elliptical, and irregular.

Black holes do not have to be at the center of galaxies either.

There are ROGUE black holes which are not at the center, but in the outer reaches of the Galaxy.

morgentaler said:

Unless you're meaning that the black hole is not the origin of gravity, but rather the primary stabilizing force allowing for solar/planetary masses to interact? A kind of gravitational ambiance in the ballet of the galaxy

Click to expand...

Yeah, now I think you your kind of getting the picture....and this is where I was drawing relation to the higgs field/particle/ boson, which I know little about, but isn't it suppose to be like a field that as a particle moves through it, it attracts mass, something like that, hahahaha, Whew!! I need to leave this subject alone, starting to stress the Gray Matter

IAm5toned said:

well the interesting thing regarding galaxies and black holes:

only spiral galaxies are suspected to have supermassive black holes at the center... its the only force theorized to be strong enough to hold billions of stars in a flat spiral trajectory.

not all galaxies are spiral by definition...

...so what is holding the other galaxies, the ones that are not the spiral type, together? is it the gravitational force of the combined star systems that make up these uncommon galaxies? or perhaps something else?
there are at least 2 other known types of galaxy, besides spiral; elliptical, and irregular.

Click to expand...

Well I think that is half true but I'll have to relook to make sure, but those elliptical and irregular galaxies are supposedly the realtime actual colliding of Galaxies.. They could've all easily been spiral before they collided, We are just observing the phase in pattern of the collision... So our galaxy could eventually be elliptical or irregular after a collision, but the dense core of both galaxies will merge and repeat the cycle again, or maybe just one, as I've read that sometimes the core of 1 galaxy can be ejected away from the collision, leaving more for the other to consume..

CrackerJax said:

Black holes do not have to be at the center of galaxies either.

There are ROGUE black holes which are not at the center, but in the outer reaches of the Galaxy.

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SuperMassive Black holes are at the Center (Massive Density), Black holes are within that Galaxy (minor density) in comparison, but yes more density then any star or planet, but still in no comparison to the Center...

The rogue Black holes are simply part of the process..

There is no plan.... there is no pattern.

or they could be spiral galaxies in the making before a black hole is either created by supernovae or attracted to the mass of the galaxy

Any large star is capable of producing a black hole. It is only the size which varies.

There may be black holes out there not tethered to anything but simply drifting in the cosmos sucking up material as it bumps up against solar systems.....

planet killers. All completely random.

IAm5toned said:

or they could be spiral galaxies in the making before a black hole is either created by supernovae or attracted to the mass of the galaxy

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Yes they could be spiral galaxies in the making, however, the Supper massive black hole is already there, the material/mass just hasn't formed yet.. Our perception of time just isn't the same..

Before there was any stars in the universe, Supermassive blackholes formed collectively at individual points, which make up our presently observed galaxies which may have been the collection of the scattered dark matter clumping to begin..

that's a misconception, Stars are not the original precursor to supermassive blackholes...although they can create a black hole

SuperMassive Blackholes formed before we had Stars...

CrackerJax said:

There is no plan.... there is no pattern.

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It sounds like you are interjecting your religion in this CJ, chaos is a theory, which has some truth behind it, but where it makes errors are in the fact of the Orderly distribution between galaxies that have no contact.. which breaks some of the rules of randomness, as well as host of other errors which make it a theory

CrackerJax said:

Any large star is capable of producing a black hole. It is only the size which varies.

There may be black holes out there not tethered to anything but simply drifting in the cosmos sucking up material as it bumps up against solar systems.....

planet killers. All completely random.

Click to expand...

Stars collapsing into a dense blackhole is irrevelant to the point, and Yes there could be a black holes drifting in intergalactic space, but I think we would notice it effects on the surrounding Mass, and it is possible we just haven't spotted one yet, However, I don't think we will come across that scenario

No, science has revealed that chaos lies at the center of everything.