Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

Discussion in 'Organics' started by headtreep, Mar 21, 2013.


    calliandra Well-Known Member

    Ah I have seen this too, unfortunately I don't have an answer (yet? haha).
    From what is visible on the pix, otherwise your plants are doing great, is that correct?!
    Then I'd just let them go.
    You can get rid of your nitrogen by adding carbon-heavy material btw. (as Magdup kindly shared a link to :D).
    But I agree with those who have said it's probably not really an N issue.

    One thing I learned obsessing about those curly tips is, that if the cause is overwatering, they won't be uncurling anymore. That is, your conditions may have returned to ideal, but you will continue seeing those signs that appeared when they dipped under, they won't reverse.
    In my case, I saw how the affected leaves were about the same age - older and younger leaves not having those symptoms, and finally concluded I must've messed up sometime and not noticed.
    lol maybe I was just fed up with thinking about it inconclusively ;)
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    Mexican bagseeder

    Mexican bagseeder Member

    Hello herbalists...... I thought I would just share what I've been doing. Recently I made fermented fruit juice consisting of bannana peel, papaya skin, grated potatoe, melon skin, watermelon skin, carrot skin and cucumber skin with Chia seeds and bone meal as extras.

    I let it ferment for about 7 days the process was quick because it's really hot here.... Anyway it seems to work. I gave some to the girls yesterday and today I have already seen a explosion in growth especially with the pistols..

    The smell of the fertilizer really does smell like organic farmness I love it. I will be making similar mixes throughout the whole process.

    Im also making some LAB which will be ready in about a week

    I will post some pics of the girls soon

    bizfactory Well-Known Member

    KNF is the truth! Although pretty sure I'd have the dank with just the soil alone, it's a really nice supplement. My go to is comfrey FPJ and I use LAB at least once a week regardless.
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    hyroot Well-Known Member

    I've strayed away from knf and made my journey back to jadam. Adding water and sealing containers allows the microbes multiply. Sugar only (knf) traps the microbes to the point that they go dormant. Thats why knf fpj's and ffj's have to be mixed with a nutrient source like labs when being used.

    I make fpe's with labs and water instead of just straight brown sugar.
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    Mexican bagseeder

    Mexican bagseeder Member

    What is knf I haven't heard of this yet...... Time for a Google search

    SCJedi Well-Known Member

    It is a Korean natural farming technique

    hyroot Well-Known Member

    KNF is Korean natural farming founded by Dr. Han-Kyu Cho. Then his son Young-Sang Cho founded and wrote the book on Jadam Natural Farming which is the revised tech of KNF
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
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    bizfactory Well-Known Member

    Got any good sources for Jadam info? Looks like there is an ebook for $43 but not ready to spend that just yet.

    You said FPJ and FFJ need a "nutrient source like labs". I've never heard LAB to be a nutrient source. Wouldn't that be the FPJ/FFJ and LAB would be the microbe source?

    What triggered you to move on to Jadam? I definitely don't go full KNF and am open to trying it out for sure.
    hyroot likes this.

    MrKnotty Well-Known Member

    There is a free pdf of chos Korean Natural Farming. A simple Google search will find you the pdf. @hyroot all this chatting of FPE'S made me get the itch to get busy. I have 3 jars of nettles nw fermenting in the cupboard. I forgot how much the nettles stink during this process.

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    bizfactory Well-Known Member

    A simple read through my post will see I'm looking for JADAM specific info, not chosnaturalfarming.pdf or whatever. Thanks though.

    @hyroot I found the JADAM book on the PFA files section. Gonna read through it in the next few days. What is the replacement for FPJ/FFJ...JMS perhaps?

    hyroot Well-Known Member

    I also bought the hard copy. Same price.

    I started following Gils recipes originally. Which are mainly jadam based. Then I followed Cho's knf recipes. Then because of cost I followed the the actual jadam recipes. 25 lbs. of organic brown sugar is pretty pricey to only end up with only 2 - 3 gallons of ffj. Where I can use only a pint of labs and 3 - 4 gallons of water to make 4 - 5 gallons of fpe that has a much larger microbial population.

    Around then I learned that knf and jadam are essentially the same. Jadam is just a revised version. If you go to the seminars in Hawaii. Both Son and Papa Cho teach their methods back to back.

    Yeah it takes 4 - 5 weeks to make activated labs from the start. I have 2 gallons of concentrate in the fridge and 10 gallons of activated labs under my sink. Once the labs gets going you're swimming in labs for a while. I even gave away a gallon of labs and a gallon of fpe yesterday to @SomeGuy

    Mainly a nutrient source or food stock for microbes.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017

    hyroot Well-Known Member

    You're just using activated labs instead of sugar, but in a smaller amounts and lots of water. Basically the recipe Roberto slapped his name on. The ffj or fpj becomes fpe. What acronym goes to what ferment is kind of funny
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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    MrKnotty Well-Known Member

    I do think it's important for everyone to know that you really dont even need the activated labs to create an fpe. Most plants and herbs can be fermented with just water. This is almost certainly not the case with fruits and such, but I have very limited experience with fruits. I have made the flower fpe from Gills site, but I really prefer a simpler fpe of comfrey over it. You can literally just use water and plant material for almost any herb/weed what have you. The activated labs definitely speed up the process,.and can help control the smell for sure. I suggest experimenting with all forms. My go to ferment process now is just water, and depending on my mood a dash of molasses. Less than a TBS for a half gallon of water. Also, there is a great thread on FPE'S on icmag. Guy that goes by jaykush really knows his shit. Happy playing!

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    bizfactory Well-Known Member

    Thanks guys! Funny that I actually started with the unconventional farmer as well. Seems like his site kinda shit the bed though lol. I'll give the fpe a try on my next ferment. I have never tried the activated LABs either, just the serum 1:1 with sugar/molasses so I'll try out Roberto's recipe as well.
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    Mazer Well-Known Member

    Dear Calliandra,
    Thank you for your reply! you are right the plants are doing well besides the Claw. I will try to have a closer look to see if the curled leaves are indeed form the same generation.
    I am keeping a close watch on my watering so I might have over-watered once or twice and that would explain this. and would corroborate you thesis.

    I will keep you posted.

    Uncurlingly yours,
    calliandra likes this.

    Mazer Well-Known Member

    Dear bizfactory,
    you can have a look at the following link for "Cho's Global Natural Farming" Interesting read and amusing grammar/syntax.

    KNFingly yours,

    hyroot Well-Known Member

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    Mazer Well-Known Member

    Dear hyroot and all,
    Sorry for the mistake. I was out of focus :shock:.
    Soberingly yours,

    keepsake Well-Known Member

    So, I have 4 plants in 5 gal hard pots that I will flower soon. I've been growing them with bottled nutes and happy frog soil. I've prepped some living soil with bokashi and EM1 water. I see bits of mycelium growing in the soil so I think that's a good sign of living soil.

    I want to flush them, transplant them into 7gal fabric pots with my prepped living soil, flip the lights, and finish the run organically. I've been doing a whole bunch of reading and I plan to do FFJ with fruits that are high in P&K to help them bloom. Do you think this is a good idea? I hope so, I don't want to finish the run with bottled nutes.

    I am currently making some Activated EM. I did a 1:1:20 mix with EM1, molasses, and water. It is fermenting in a 1gal jar with an air lock. From what I know that's considered LAB too, right?

    Can you give me some suggestions or recipes I can do to help my plant thru flower?
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    Fastslappy Well-Known Member


    10 yards of dairy,horse ,Green waste certified organic compost ,it's still hot lol
    My back hurts & I'm not anywhere done
    This will be base for Clackamas Coot's mix,
    The base for a worm compost pile
    Also base start two new ewc bins
    The rest will go into any container I got
    Then the rest goes to the comfrey patches
    Soooo this has been thermo composted
    And I'll dbl compost some into soil
    It's also prime base for worms I'd boost it with fig leaves & comfrey ,neem , grains,

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