Red and White Lights? opnions

midgetaus

midgetaus

Member
Is there a definitive consensus on whether or not supplemental red light is needed.

I hear that there is enough red in white lights and others say red needs to be added in the flowering stage...


Just wondering what the general consensus is for the majority of LED growers out there.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
I think all 2700k and 3000k can produce enough red. But more efficient would be imo 4000k, 660
let supra , flux, guod, and sailor ring in. They are the only one constantly experimenting with various spectrums.

my IG is 4850k plus 660 leds. In a few months I will be experimenting too. So will see. My experiments will be with 1 or 2 plants at a time.
 
BeastGrow

BeastGrow

Well-Known Member
the White LED panel i viewed was 3500k.. believe it was area 51. in my opinion HPS supplemented with white LEDs works very well, probably better than just hps or just LED.. The hps will have all the reds you need and the white LEDS should have a little of everything
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
HPS has huge peaks in the green, yellow and orange and in some cases it basically misses red and deep red, yet we still get huge decent nugs. On the other hand, the nugs I get from red/white/blue LED panels tend to be frostier, denser and finish faster. Then of course there is the obvious improvement in electrical efficiency.

So I suspect that red is not necessary to get the job done but if you can get reds I would consider them an improvement.

3000K has some red but low on deep red. 2700K has good red and decent deep red with a slight efficiency penalty and low on blue. High CRI has probably a perfect spectrum but a significant efficiency penalty.
 
gk skunky

gk skunky

Well-Known Member
BeastGrow said:
the White LED panel i viewed was 3500k.. believe it was area 51. in my opinion HPS supplemented with white LEDs works very well, probably better than just hps or just LED.. The hps will have all the reds you need and the white LEDS should have a little of everything
Click to expand...
Not true that A51 probably makes about the same if not more more reds than most HPS bulbs.

Just as an example. Taken directly for Eye's website for the hortilux super HPS.


One thing a lot of people have their facts wrong on. HPS does NOT produce much reds at all. One reason CMH outperforms HPS. Do we absolutely need red supplementation? I would think that depends on the color temp of a white lamp. Some would need it more than others. 3000K LEDs are pretty well balanced, kinda wish that's what was used in the XGS, but so far the 3750Ks are having no issue. But I have some 2700Ks on hand for supplementation if I feel it's needed. I want to see how things stack up by the 4th week to make that decision. Because I would like to use just the XGS all the way through, but if I think it needs some help I'm going to help it because I don't want to waste time.
 
gk skunky

gk skunky

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
HPS has huge peaks in the green, yellow and orange and in some cases it basically misses red and deep red, yet we still get huge decent nugs. On the other hand, the nugs I get from red/white/blue LED panels tend to be frostier, denser and finish faster. Then of course there is the obvious improvement in electrical efficiency.

So I suspect that red is not necessary to get the job done but if you can get reds I would consider them an improvement.

3000K has some red but low on deep red. 2700K has good red and decent deep red with a slight efficiency penalty and low on blue. High CRI has probably a perfect spectrum but a significant efficiency penalty.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I so far view it the same way. Kind of like CO2 supplementation. Does it help? Yup! Is it required? In most situations nope.
 
kinddiesel

kinddiesel

Well-Known Member
it does not matter the color of the led. it matters the spectrum. just because it white purple blue pink. does not mean that is what the plant is seeing . you need to look at the data of the led light. the bar graph above. and good led company should have this .
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
GK you are right on, although the graph A51 cites has the colors slightly shifted to the blue side

This one has got the reds correctly


Growershouse test:
 
gk skunky

gk skunky

Well-Known Member

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SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Yeah that is a pretty sweet curve for flowering, just keep in mind that those graphs are not relative to each other. Here is what it looks like when it is (Thank you Mr Flux!)

 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
Yeah that is a pretty sweet curve for flowering, just keep in mind that those graphs are not relative to each other. Here is what it looks like when it is (Thank you Mr Flux!)

Click to expand...
I still like the 93 cri. Less green /yellow. I like a more even distribution. May not apply here...
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Perfect place for a 'LIKE' button

Helped me understand high CRI benefits

Is it more important than binning, or one in the same?

SupraSPL said:
Yeah that is a pretty sweet curve for flowering, just keep in mind that those graphs are not relative to each other. Here is what it looks like when it is (Thank you Mr Flux!)

Click to expand...
 
gk skunky

gk skunky

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
Perfect place for a 'LIKE' button

Helped me understand high CRI benefits

Is it more important than binning, or one in the same?
Click to expand...
Looks like it's just more of another subset to me. Unless I misread some things looking through the data sheets. They had different bins even for the different CRIs. Seemed like the more blue leaning the diode they had 70 and 80 CRI with different bin offerings, then as you get around 4-5000K there were 70/80/90, 3500K and below had 80/93. Like the graph supra showed points, the 80s produce more lumens/watt than the 93s, but the 93s spread the spectrum better.
 
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