Rooted clones in peat pellet kept dying after transplanted to solo cups

U

unfiltered

Well-Known Member
I got a few rooted clones that are very young and small (around two to three inches tall) in peat pellet that kept dying after a week once they were transplanted into solo cups. I transplanted them after several roots poked through the peat pellet netting. After I transplanted them in solo cups with HP Promix with some EWC and kelp meal, the remaining leaves would start yellowing, dry out, and then the whole clone died. I kept the solo cups in the clone tray and dome a few days before I move them outside the dome. I water these clones a bit after they were put in the solo cups. This happened 3 times already. I can't figure this out.

How do you guys do it if you use peat pellet? Should you leave the transplanted clones in the dome for another week so the root system would get bigger? Maybe the lighting is too strong?

However, I have successfully transplanted bigger clones (5 to 6 inches tall) into solo cups and they grew normally. So, there's something I must be missing when transplanting these smaller clones into solo cup.

The only things I can think of are:

1) They need to stay in low light for another week?
2) They need to stay in the dome for another week?
3) I might have over or under water them?
 
70's natureboy

70's natureboy

Well-Known Member
I do it al the time with Pro mix only. I don't know anything about the other stuff your using. Solo cups are pretty tricky, you have to get the watering just right. Sometime I poke a hole 1/2 3/4" high in case I do give them too much water. I don't worry about feeding them until I see they are actually growing.
 
myke

myke

Well-Known Member
I’ll guess the dome. Ween them from the dome before transplant. You can put some perlite in your tray let the roots grow into that. Once going then transplant.
 
mustbetribbin

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
unfiltered said:
I got a few rooted clones that are very young and small (around two to three inches tall) in peat pellet that kept dying after a week once they were transplanted into solo cups. I transplanted them after several roots poked through the peat pellet netting. After I transplanted them in solo cups with HP Promix with some EWC and kelp meal, the remaining leaves would start yellowing, dry out, and then the whole clone died. I kept the solo cups in the clone tray and dome a few days before I move them outside the dome. I water these clones a bit after they were put in the solo cups. This happened 3 times already. I can't figure this out.

How do you guys do it if you use peat pellet? Should you leave the transplanted clones in the dome for another week so the root system would get bigger? Maybe the lighting is too strong?

However, I have successfully transplanted bigger clones (5 to 6 inches tall) into solo cups and they grew normally. So, there's something I must be missing when transplanting these smaller clones into solo cup.

The only things I can think of are:

1) They need to stay in low light for another week?
2) They need to stay in the dome for another week?
3) I might have over or under water them?
Click to expand...
Hey @unfiltered how goes it?

When you cut your clones, are you completely saturating the soil in the cups after they are transplanted? They don't just get watered at my house, I wait til they are dripping wet and have an area where I let them sit at after I water them after they are taken to allow cups to have some run off for a few mins before they are placed in a metal grow cabinet where my seedlings and clones stay at.

I take my cuts in the dark 1hr after lights out like a tweaker, lol, they seem to really benefit from this and at least 4 1/2hrs darkness afterwards, the plants don't slouch over like the ones I've taken during lights On, they stand taller from day one with this method.

In the solo cup I found I would need to rehydrate the cup on about 4th-5th day mark after being cut and watered, I found its best to simply water the container until moderate saturation is achieved, but I will advise it's best not water until water comes out the bottom on the 4th-5th day, you just want to maintain the moisture content to a healthy level, but not drenched, otherwise it could cause the clone to drown, which is easy when the roots are still trying to come out and beginning to develop. It's more about maintaining a constant moisture level with clones, for about the first 10 days, after then it can be allowed to start to dry more between waterings afterwards.

I didn't do anything special to my clone cups, I just had one 1/4 hole in the bottom right in the center of them, this allowed for a tiny reservoir on water to exist on the sides on the bottom, not sure if that made a difference or not. Might just water on the 4th day if it's a warmer environment, water on the 5th day if is cooler, might have to make your own call as to when is best in that aspect.

Helps to provide some bottom warmth for the first few days, if the soil is around 75-80 degrees they can root faster this way, however I'm starting to wonder if a 3-6hr period of gestation should be allowed before bottom heat is applied... something I'm not absolute sure on yet.... room temp soil is typically around 60 degrees, just a bit too cold for optimal rooting growth, so I'd probably look into that also.

If you don't want to use a dome, just find a way to add extra moisture to the environment, in my metal cabinet, I just add a few extra cups of water to the area to increase the moisture levels in the whole cabinet just a bit, and I like this way better became I don't have to fiddle around with domes and what not, works alright.

I don't have much experience with peat pellets, but I really don't like any pre-made substrates personally, I use real dirt and 2 types of promix combined (distilled dirt from winter harvest 1ft below surface is where I dug from) and I allow it to simmer for about 1month before use. Wish I could be more helpful to beginners in this aspect, but I'm mostly old fashioned when it comes to growing, main reason I enjoy growing in soil so much, so I can only advise where I'm able in this regard, I have heard good things about rapid rooter plugs, but I have not tried a pre-made cloning plug myself, always just made my own blend and it worked out good, if you wonder if it's good soil to clone with, germinate some other seeds like peppers or tomatoes first and see how things grow in it first, if plants thrive in it with no issues, the clones shouldn't have any issues either, least that's been my experience so far.

Let me know if you've got any extra questions, and I'll try and help out further if I'm able. Cheers.
 
U

unfiltered

Well-Known Member
Thanks guys for chiming in. Please read the OP again.

I DO NOT have any issue getting the cuts to root in the peat pellet. In fact, most of my cuttings root in the peat pellet just fine and I find that these peat pellets are the best for me to get them to root.

The ONLY issue I have is after the roots poked out of the peat pellet, I transplant the whole peat pellet into a solo cup with HP Promix (basically peat moss) and some ewc and kelp meal. After a few days, the leaves of the clone in the solo cup start to turn yellow, dry out, and eventually die.

Of course, I try my best not to over or under water these rooted young plants as I am very aware of root rot and also not to let them dry out.

Again, in the OP, I DO NOT have any issue at all if the cuttings are bigger or taller.
 
mustbetribbin

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
unfiltered said:
Thanks guys for chiming in. Please read the OP again.

I DO NOT have any issue getting the cuts to root in the peat pellet. In fact, most of my cuttings root in the peat pellet just fine and I find that these peat pellets are the best for me to get them to root.

The ONLY issue I have is after the roots poked out of the peat pellet, I transplant the whole peat pellet into a solo cup with HP Promix (basically peat moss) and some ewc and kelp meal. After a few days, the leaves of the clone in the solo cup start to turn yellow, dry out, and eventually die.

Of course, I try my best not to over or under water these rooted young plants as I am very aware of root rot and also not to let them dry out.

Again, in the OP, I DO NOT have any issue at all if the cuttings are bigger or taller.
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Oh I see, sorry I was and am still a bit up there earlier when I replied, sometimes I can go a bit deep into the subject at times, ha ha.

But man it sounds like the peat pellets, do these have the screen material attached around them, maybe the roots are getting trapped inside the peat material itself?

Or it could be that the soil that you are transferring the cuttings into is too rich/hot for the younger clones that you are trying to take?

Could be something as simple buffering the water before you add it into the soil, I just take some dirt from one of my sterile containers of soil, add it to a gallon jug of water, let the water sit for 1-6hrs before use, it naturalizes the water and buffers any chemical additives that may be left in the water, shaken vigorously helps to aerate the water plus emulsify the soil particles into tiny molecules that can be absorbed with the water molecules already attached, instead of clear water filtering through without any nutrients, you then have nutrients shuttled in, this is how I water, one of my plants is now 2ft diameter 7ft tall indoor 27gal, never ph'd healthy clone mother, just to give you an idea that I don't have issues this method, and very economical way to grow as well.

I never ph'd anything I grew before that was intended for outdoor before I began growing indoors, 20 year old non existent habits don't die hard if you know what I mean.

Anyways I do hope you find some success with your growing techniques, I think you'll figure it out from here on out, take care buddy and thanks for the comment.
 
U

unfiltered

Well-Known Member
myke said:
The EWC that your adding could be it,a litttle to muddy choking the roots.
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Yeh, I am thinking this could be an issue. In the past, I only use HP Promix for seedlings and clones. Since adding EWC and Kelp during this recent run, I have managed to kill 6 seedlings and 3 clones. I thought it was due to the Quantum Boards burning them but after I dumped the soil from the solo cup of some dead seedlings and clones, I can smell that nasty aroma from anaerobic bacteria. I will go back to just using HP Promix.

Great suggestion!
 
U

unfiltered

Well-Known Member
myke said:
The EWC that your adding could be it,a litttle to muddy choking the roots.
Click to expand...
But I want to know why is the EWC choking the roots? Is it because EWC is too dense and thus robbing the soil of oxygen? The ratio I'm using is 5:1:1 of Promix:EWC:Kelp Meal.
 
U

unfiltered

Well-Known Member
mustbetribbin said:
Oh I see, sorry I was and am still a bit up there earlier when I replied, sometimes I can go a bit deep into the subject at times, ha ha.

But man it sounds like the peat pellets, do these have the screen material attached around them, maybe the roots are getting trapped inside the peat material itself?

Or it could be that the soil that you are transferring the cuttings into is too rich/hot for the younger clones that you are trying to take?

Could be something as simple buffering the water before you add it into the soil, I just take some dirt from one of my sterile containers of soil, add it to a gallon jug of water, let the water sit for 1-6hrs before use, it naturalizes the water and buffers any chemical additives that may be left in the water, shaken vigorously helps to aerate the water plus emulsify the soil particles into tiny molecules that can be absorbed with the water molecules already attached, instead of clear water filtering through without any nutrients, you then have nutrients shuttled in, this is how I water, one of my plants is now 2ft diameter 7ft tall indoor 27gal, never ph'd healthy clone mother, just to give you an idea that I don't have issues this method, and very economical way to grow as well.

I never ph'd anything I grew before that was intended for outdoor before I began growing indoors, 20 year old non existent habits don't die hard if you know what I mean.

Anyways I do hope you find some success with your growing techniques, I think you'll figure it out from here on out, take care buddy and thanks for the comment.
Click to expand...
I cut out the netting before transplanting. But yeh, I think because I started adding EWC and Kelp to the soil and things started going south. I've just lost 6 seedlings out of 7 using this new mix. I was thinking the issue was the Quantum Board that burned the plants because that's another issue I was having in my flowering tent. I'm going to go back to just using HP Promix ONLY for seedlings and clones where I had no problems in the past.
 
U

unfiltered

Well-Known Member
mustbetribbin said:
Oh I see, sorry I was and am still a bit up there earlier when I replied, sometimes I can go a bit deep into the subject at times, ha ha.

But man it sounds like the peat pellets, do these have the screen material attached around them, maybe the roots are getting trapped inside the peat material itself?

Or it could be that the soil that you are transferring the cuttings into is too rich/hot for the younger clones that you are trying to take?

Could be something as simple buffering the water before you add it into the soil, I just take some dirt from one of my sterile containers of soil, add it to a gallon jug of water, let the water sit for 1-6hrs before use, it naturalizes the water and buffers any chemical additives that may be left in the water, shaken vigorously helps to aerate the water plus emulsify the soil particles into tiny molecules that can be absorbed with the water molecules already attached, instead of clear water filtering through without any nutrients, you then have nutrients shuttled in, this is how I water, one of my plants is now 2ft diameter 7ft tall indoor 27gal, never ph'd healthy clone mother, just to give you an idea that I don't have issues this method, and very economical way to grow as well.

I never ph'd anything I grew before that was intended for outdoor before I began growing indoors, 20 year old non existent habits don't die hard if you know what I mean.

Anyways I do hope you find some success with your growing techniques, I think you'll figure it out from here on out, take care buddy and thanks for the comment.
[/QUOTE.

This water buffering method is quite interesting as this seems like a light compost tea.
Click to expand...
 
myke

myke

Well-Known Member
I know the HP has per light. Do u add more to your mix?
Again let roots grow out of peat pellet so when transplanted they have some legs to stand on. I bubble clone so before they go into anything there 12” long.
 
U

unfiltered

Well-Known Member
myke said:
I know the HP has per light. Do u add more to your mix?
Again let roots grow out of peat pellet so when transplanted they have some legs to stand on. I bubble clone so before they go into anything there 12” long.
Click to expand...
No, usually I just use straight up HP Promix and had past success. I can add some rice hulls which I should for a bit more aeration.

Now, if you let the roots grow out of the peat pellet, wouldn't they die as they are exposed to light and air? I have had clones with many roots poking out and hanging off of the peat pellet and they seemed to be OK.
 
myke

myke

Well-Known Member
Well it helps with the overwatering thing. When say I start a seed in rockwool once the roots come out the bottom I put in a small net pot then into bubble bucket. Let roots grow say 12” or so then transplant into coco/ dirt. I just hang the seedling above and back fill around. This way you have some legs so to speak.
I think your problem was just not enough air ewc is just mud when you water it. Add some aeration and I think your good.
 
U

unfiltered

Well-Known Member
myke said:
Well it helps with the overwatering thing. When say I start a seed in rockwool once the roots come out the bottom I put in a small net pot then into bubble bucket. Let roots grow say 12” or so then transplant into coco/ dirt. I just hang the seedling above and back fill around. This way you have some legs so to speak.
I think your problem was just not enough air ewc is just mud when you water it. Add some aeration and I think your good.
Click to expand...
Yeh, and I kept them in the dome with super high humidity so the soil never had a chance to dry out thus creating anaerobic soil and that seemed to slowly kill the seedlings/young clones. I kept them in the dome for a few days thinking that would give the root more time to grow as the leaves are in high humidity environment.

Anyway, I will be popping another batch of seeds and transplanting some more clones so we'll see how it goes using only Pro Mix.
 
mustbetribbin

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
Yeah man I learned the whole tap water, throw a few chunks of dirt in to dissolve and neutralize chlorine and other contaminates idea from some old school growers on another forum about a decade ago, these guys had pictures of healthy plants, lots of info, so I tried it out one day few years ago and it really made a difference, and I haven't looked back since, plants really seem to like emulsified soil molecules micronized into their water before they are watered, the science behind it is when outdoors, rainfall creates runoff, when this rainfall mixes with dirt particles the nutrients in the water become more readily absorbable to the root base, because in this way the plant doesn't have to expend as much energy to reach the nutrients, at least that's my current understanding of it.

When I combine a bit of soil to add to my water, I have real dirt on hand (distilled basically) and then I have some clean reused soil that I add also to the mix, so this way actual under the top level soil is already in the mix, and this helps to decompose some of those toxins or chemicals in the water, soaking them in the swamp like water mixture breaks these chemicals down and basically neutralizes them before before they come into contact with the soil. It's good to have a bit of sediment in each bottle and some floating bark and organic material in the top portion of the water, this way both lighter and heavier molecules can be broken down simultaneously, and neutralized.

I've kept water like this for up to 24hrs with no issue, after that point they can begin to become a bit anaerobic and start to develop an odor, so i typically try to use the mixture before that point, but I've had no issues growing this way, and my plants seem very happy being watered this way, so I'm glad to share this to others as a easy method to follow.

I mean basically after soaking the dirt in the water for a bit, doesn't it become bottled nutes kind of in a way? LoL.

Also is you'd like you can add like half teaspoon of raw sugar to the gallon to help activate the decomposition process in the water, speeds up that breakdown a bit and gets those microbes activated as well, it's what I'd recommend, I've got charcoal in my soil already, so molasses(sugar+carbon) is kind of a bit overboard in my setup, although that's what some people use.

Hope this helps :weed:.
 
myke

myke

Well-Known Member
mustbetribbin said:
Yeah man I learned the whole tap water, throw a few chunks of dirt in to dissolve and neutralize chlorine and other contaminates idea from some old school growers on another forum about a decade ago, these guys had pictures of healthy plants, lots of info, so I tried it out one day few years ago and it really made a difference, and I haven't looked back since, plants really seem to like emulsified soil molecules micronized into their water before they are watered, the science behind it is when outdoors, rainfall creates runoff, when this rainfall mixes with dirt particles the nutrients in the water become more readily absorbable to the root base, because in this way the plant doesn't have to expend as much energy to reach the nutrients, at least that's my current understanding of it.

When I combine a bit of soil to add to my water, I have real dirt on hand (distilled basically) and then I have some clean reused soil that I add also to the mix, so this way actual under the top level soil is already in the mix, and this helps to decompose some of those toxins or chemicals in the water, soaking them in the swamp like water mixture breaks these chemicals down and basically neutralizes them before before they come into contact with the soil. It's good to have a bit of sediment in each bottle and some floating bark and organic material in the top portion of the water, this way both lighter and heavier molecules can be broken down simultaneously, and neutralized.

I've kept water like this for up to 24hrs with no issue, after that point they can begin to become a bit anaerobic and start to develop an odor, so i typically try to use the mixture before that point, but I've had no issues growing this way, and my plants seem very happy being watered this way, so I'm glad to share this to others as a easy method to follow.

I mean basically after soaking the dirt in the water for a bit, doesn't it become bottled nutes kind of in a way? LoL.

Also is you'd like you can add like half teaspoon of raw sugar to the gallon to help activate the decomposition process in the water, speeds up that breakdown a bit and gets those microbes activated as well, it's what I'd recommend, I've got charcoal in my soil already, so molasses(sugar+carbon) is kind of a bit overboard in my setup, although that's what some people use.

Hope this helps :weed:.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for sharing that,Iim going to try it .Black dirt you say?
 
U

unfiltered

Well-Known Member
mustbetribbin said:
Yeah man I learned the whole tap water, throw a few chunks of dirt in to dissolve and neutralize chlorine and other contaminates idea from some old school growers on another forum about a decade ago, these guys had pictures of healthy plants, lots of info, so I tried it out one day few years ago and it really made a difference, and I haven't looked back since, plants really seem to like emulsified soil molecules micronized into their water before they are watered, the science behind it is when outdoors, rainfall creates runoff, when this rainfall mixes with dirt particles the nutrients in the water become more readily absorbable to the root base, because in this way the plant doesn't have to expend as much energy to reach the nutrients, at least that's my current understanding of it.

When I combine a bit of soil to add to my water, I have real dirt on hand (distilled basically) and then I have some clean reused soil that I add also to the mix, so this way actual under the top level soil is already in the mix, and this helps to decompose some of those toxins or chemicals in the water, soaking them in the swamp like water mixture breaks these chemicals down and basically neutralizes them before before they come into contact with the soil. It's good to have a bit of sediment in each bottle and some floating bark and organic material in the top portion of the water, this way both lighter and heavier molecules can be broken down simultaneously, and neutralized.

I've kept water like this for up to 24hrs with no issue, after that point they can begin to become a bit anaerobic and start to develop an odor, so i typically try to use the mixture before that point, but I've had no issues growing this way, and my plants seem very happy being watered this way, so I'm glad to share this to others as a easy method to follow.

I mean basically after soaking the dirt in the water for a bit, doesn't it become bottled nutes kind of in a way? LoL.

Also is you'd like you can add like half teaspoon of raw sugar to the gallon to help activate the decomposition process in the water, speeds up that breakdown a bit and gets those microbes activated as well, it's what I'd recommend, I've got charcoal in my soil already, so molasses(sugar+carbon) is kind of a bit overboard in my setup, although that's what some people use.

Hope this helps :weed:.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing as this sounds really interesting.

Have you done a side by side study of a batch of plant using regular water vs the same batch (clones) watered with this method?

Update: Reading your posts again regarding this "dirt in water" method, as mentioned, this is basically compost tea but in shorter period time so the microbes population is not as numerous as a regular compost tea where you brew it for 48 hours. Your method is brewed for a few hours. Of course your plants will like it because there's a new population of microbes being poured into the pots. However, like compost tea, you do not know what kind of microbes you are propagating. You might be propagating E.Coli and not know about it. Plus this creates more work every time you water as you have to brew your water every time.
Anyway, this method might be great for a quick "pick me up" sorta thing when the plants are stressed, nutrient lockouts, and or transplanting. However, you might be disturbing the balance in the soil by introducing new microbes. Side by side test need to be executed to see if this method works or not.
 
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mustbetribbin

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
myke said:
Thank you very much for sharing that,Iim going to try it .Black dirt you say?
Click to expand...
Hi myke!

Yeah, basically if you're able, after one of your plants finishes, take that soil and put it inside of a sealable container, just to keep it sterile and free of contaminants, and use that as part of your blend, the other portion (at least this is what I've been doing) is just raw dirt that I harvested from a pasture of farmland, plain and simple, I went out after a few hard freezes in late winter, dug down 1 foot deep in like a 10x10ft area, I shoveled and raked the entire top layer of soil away 1 foot deep, and from this point there were no large roots in the way and I was able to reach down into that decomposed rich layer of earth that was free of pests, and had high levels of nutrients that where naturally ph balanced from being untouched for probably centuries for all I know, not sure if anyone's dug down like 4ft in the spot I was or not, lol, but probably not, and so very old dirt can be harvested this way, nice rich living soil if taken from the right location I'd say (Call before you dig, if there's any wonder).

You can alternatively just use some composted or cooked soil blends that have been able to naturalize in a separate container that has been aged for about a month or so, I have 18gal tubs full and after im done combining my soil blend, I pour about a gallon and half of water inside to activate the soil as if I'm watering a plant, if you already knew this step, sorry, I just wanted to be clear that hydration is key, but not heavily saturated.

As far as black soil goes, well see there are 2 types of carbon that plants are able to utilise that exist within the soil, one is inactive carbon that is only absorbable if microbes are present to dissolve the organic matter in the soil into soluble active carbon that is easily absorbed by the roots after the hydrogen/nitrogen and other mineral compositions of each molecule is removed.

When active carbon is blended to the soil, it allows the microbes to create a underground web of micro communities that congregate around the pieces of carbon that are residing in the soil, then when roots locate these microbe communities within the soil, it actually allows them to complete photosynthesis conversions at a faster rate, because the microbes are able to allow the soil itself to exhale carbon dioxide at a faster rate, which also helps the plant breathe faster, because it's a synchronized process, feed the microbes, the microbes feed the plant this is 100% true, and the main component that keeps microbes thriving is a steadily supplied digestible fuel of Carbon, biochar, or natural lump charcoal found after forest fires and so forth, this is why green growth rebuilds the burn zone so quickly, the digestible elemental carbon that is left over feeds the heavy population of microbes below and they in turn feed the plants.

Here's an article I found on this subject if you'd like a bit more detailed information on the subject.

ohioline.osu.edu

Understanding Soil Microbes and Nutrient Recycling

Soil microorganisms exist in large numbers in the soil as long as there is a carbon source for energy. A large number of bacteria in the soil exists, but because of their small size, they have a smaller biomass. Actinomycetes are a factor of 10 times smaller in number but are larger in size so...
ohioline.osu.edu ohioline.osu.edu

But that is correct, I've kept it simple even watered my seeds/seedlings this way, have not ph'd a single thing, and I haven't watered without the dirt mixture but maybe once or twice this year, mostly because I was short on time, but only for the larger containers that can handle the chlorine better and what not, I try to make sure the younger plants receive the soil 'compost' tea each time, and they have grown well with this method so far, so I figure I won't fix what doesn't need fixin.

Yep, but fo sho man glad to help out and show others my methods that are producing some decent plants indoors so far.

Cheers everyone.
 
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