Roots Organics Dry Amendments Bat Guano / Phos Rock

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GlueSniffer

Active Member
Is anybody familiar with these Roots Organics Products from Aurora Innovations. I ordered a product called Super Phos Bat Guano. It said the NPK was 1-14-0. A distributor sent me a product called Super Phos Rock with NPK 0-9-0. This product says it is derived from Phosphate Rock, not bat guano, but still has pictures of bats on the bag and on the back of the bag - it talks about not disturbing the bats colonies while extracting the raw material. Probably hard to disturb the bats when there is no guano in the product. I don't understand why they are trying to give a rock phosphate product a guano twist? Anyway they told me the Super Phos Bat Guano doesn't exist anymore. But I do see a product that says Super Phos Rock that is 1-14-0.

So I am wondering if anybody has any info about the differences between the various Super Phos Rock, Super Phos Bat Guano, and Phos Bat Guano procuts. The distributor that sent me the 0-9-0 product also sent me a 2018 catalog that lists the Super Phos Bat Guano (1-14-0). The same distributor told me the 1-14-0 product (rock phosphate or bat guano) doesn't exist anymore.

I ordered a 1-14-0 guano product and got a 0-9-0 rock phosphate product. I was cheated out of 1/3 of my phosphate and the phosphate isn't even from the correct source. I already had a soft rock phosphate product. I wanted guano. So can somebody tell me anything about this product line. What was discontinued? What is the current product? Why are their bats on the rock phosphate bag?
 
N

Northwood

Well-Known Member
GlueSniffer said:
Is anybody familiar with these Roots Organics Products from Aurora Innovations. I ordered a product called Super Phos Bat Guano. It said the NPK was 1-14-0. A distributor sent me a product called Super Phos Rock with NPK 0-9-0. This product says it is derived from Phosphate Rock, not bat guano, but still has pictures of bats on the bag and on the back of the bag - it talks about not disturbing the bats colonies while extracting the raw material. Probably hard to disturb the bats when there is no guano in the product. I don't understand why they are trying to give a rock phosphate product a guano twist? Anyway they told me the Super Phos Bat Guano doesn't exist anymore. But I do see a product that says Super Phos Rock that is 1-14-0.

So I am wondering if anybody has any info about the differences between the various Super Phos Rock, Super Phos Bat Guano, and Phos Bat Guano procuts. The distributor that sent me the 0-9-0 product also sent me a 2018 catalog that lists the Super Phos Bat Guano (1-14-0). The same distributor told me the 1-14-0 product (rock phosphate or bat guano) doesn't exist anymore.

I ordered a 1-14-0 guano product and got a 0-9-0 rock phosphate product. I was cheated out of 1/3 of my phosphate and the phosphate isn't even from the correct source. I already had a soft rock phosphate product. I wanted guano. So can somebody tell me anything about this product line. What was discontinued? What is the current product? Why are their bats on the rock phosphate bag?
Click to expand...
What makes you think it's not guano? It doesn't sound like rock phosphate to me, considering there is no need to go into a South American cave to mine it. Instead they could visit Florida, or a dozen other states to dig it out of the ground.

Guano can gain phosphorus as it ages (well lots of calcium too) because it gains acidity as it loses its organic matter (and nitrogen) through decay, while also lacking potassium due to leaching. The high acidity reacts with natural forms of calcium phosphate making up the rocks in many caves which changes the guano's composition over time. This guano becomes high in available forms of P. Unfortunately it's pretty darn hard not to disturb bats in caves while mining it and these extraction operations cause severe environmental damage and contribute to the decline of bat populations. If I needed P for field soil as indicated by soil tests, likely inorganic triple superphosphate derived from Bone Valley is a more environmental friendly option.

TBH, I'd be scared to death of using something that high in P in my grow, but then again I'm doing no-till and reusing my soil grow-after-grow. For many years (maybe decades) I've made it my ambition to avoid anything relatively high in P.
 
N

Ns950641

Active Member
I recently ran into the same thing from what I understand the soft rock phosphate is from the bat cave floor and is a mixture of fossilized guano and rock the reason they changed the name and wording was I believe because they did not use fresh guano (big no no pathogens disease etc) either way I wanted to be sure I had real guano so I ordered some sunleaf Madagascan guano and love it however it also mentions soft rock phosphate if you look a archipelago guanos site they have a page about it best I remember
 
green_machine_two9er

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
Ns950641 said:
I recently ran into the same thing from what I understand the soft rock phosphate is from the bat cave floor and is a mixture of fossilized guano and rock the reason they changed the name and wording was I believe because they did not use fresh guano (big no no pathogens disease etc) either way I wanted to be sure I had real guano so I ordered some sunleaf Madagascan guano and love it however it also mentions soft rock phosphate if you look a archipelago guanos site they have a page about it best I remember
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Yup same story I got when I ordered the super guano and got rock phos instead.
Although I’m curious where you can get sun leaves products still i haven’t seen that in years??
 
N

Ns950641

Active Member
i searched for a couple days until i found a hydro store in tulsa with a bunch of old stock on amazon(cult hydro i think if anyone wants to seek em out) so i bought 2 40lb buckets after hearing about sunleaves being bought out hopefully ill be set on guano for a couple years
:mrgreen:
 
Medskunk

Medskunk

Well-Known Member
Hey @Northwood whats your phosphorus source? Im sure i read it at some point, please share If you dont mind. Was it crab meal??

I tried to avoid gk guano in this grow but couldnt resist it eventually. My herb mix proved to not be enough. Not giving up though!
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
There are many sources of P. Some are more readily available to the plant but the plant doesn't care if it comes from guano, rock phosphate, or bone meal.

Phosphorus Fertilizers for Organic Farming Systems - 0.569

Adequate soil phosphorus (P) is essential for optimal crop yields. Phosphorus (P) enables a plant to store and transfer energy, promotes root, flower and fruit development, and allows early maturity. Agricultural soils in Colorado generally contain from 800 to 2,000 pounds of total P per acre in...
extension.colostate.edu extension.colostate.edu
 
N

Northwood

Well-Known Member
Medskunk said:
Hey @Northwood whats your phosphorus source? Im sure i read it at some point, please share If you dont mind. Was it crab meal??

I tried to avoid gk guano in this grow but couldnt resist it eventually. My herb mix proved to not be enough. Not giving up though!
Click to expand...
My source of P includes hay mulch, alfalfa pellets, organic hen manure (applied once in the mix before first cycle), and recycled cannabis plants I grew the previous cycles. I'm never really worried about having too little P - just too much of it. It can even lead to excess if you use too much compost. So I also avoid the use of compost and worm castings as an amendment now, but did use some when mixing my original soil before the very first grow cycle. The first cycle is the hardest.

Since all my nutrients come from organic materials not yet broken down, I just ensure that what I add is just a bit more vegetative material than what I remove in the form of bud and trichomes. That way I'm covered for any loses, yet won't end up with a big imbalance of built up nutrients over many cycles in the same undisturbed soil. Doing that I really don't worry about nutrients for my plants at all. I just have to remember to water them. And in my advancing age and range of other hobbies, it's all I have time and patience for.
 
Medskunk

Medskunk

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
There are many sources of P. Some are more readily available to the plant but the plant doesn't care if it comes from guano, rock phosphate, or bone meal.

Phosphorus Fertilizers for Organic Farming Systems - 0.569

Adequate soil phosphorus (P) is essential for optimal crop yields. Phosphorus (P) enables a plant to store and transfer energy, promotes root, flower and fruit development, and allows early maturity. Agricultural soils in Colorado generally contain from 800 to 2,000 pounds of total P per acre in...
extension.colostate.edu extension.colostate.edu
Click to expand...

Nice read. Rock phosphate is out the window for me then.

The only hold back i have for guano is that the company states that the soil mix shouldnt be used more than twice if its applied. But then again, how do the field growers handle this when they apply it? Maybe overthinking it but why would they state something like this?..
Preparing some knowledge for a no till bed at some point so i wouldnt use it, if in a couple of years i get phosphorus excess and issues.

Thx for the input @Northwood
 
G

GlueSniffer

Active Member
Thank you for the replies. Very helpful. I will have to take it up with the distributor why they are advertising 1-14-0 product and shipping a 0-9-0 product. Sounds like the ole "bait and switch" to me.
 
GrownAtHighAltitude

GrownAtHighAltitude

Well-Known Member
I use Aurora's standard veg (green bag) and bloom (red bag) dry fert mixes. They've worked well for me for the past 5 years. I do add neem meal, insect frass, ground malted barley, diatomaceous earth, bokashi bran, and a little pelleted sulfur to a base mix of sphagnum peat, perlite, EWC, and Bu's compost.

I haven't messed with any of their other stuff.

The roots stuff works great indoors and out.
 
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