Run Off Numbers

Amateur-Grower

Amateur-Grower

Well-Known Member
So I’ve been testing my ppms before adding my Jacks 321 mix into my plants. They are in late veg about to flip to flower soon. Ive been doing 1000-1100 ppm, but noticed some type of deficiency (possibly potassium) so today I put in 1180-1200 ppms. When I went to test my runoff my meter shows a sign I’ve never seen before. I’m assuming the ppms are way too high to register. I’m growing in 5 gallon fabric pots and using fox farm bush doctor coco loco potting mix. I watered with 96 ounces of water and ended up with a cup of run off. I plan on using plain ph’d water next time to see if I can get an actual reading next time. Should I wait before flipping them now?
 

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Turpman

Turpman

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Or=over range. I’m surprised they look as good as they do. My grow would be crispy criders.
General runoff shouldn’t be higher than 300ppm above what you’re adding.
You have lockout where one nutrient locks out another when toooo high.
 
Amateur-Grower

Amateur-Grower

Well-Known Member
Turpman said:
Or=over range. I’m surprised they look as good as they do. My grow would be crispy criders.
General runoff shouldn’t be higher than 300ppm above what you’re adding.
You have lockout where one nutrient locks out another when toooo high.
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Could my run off have anything to do with using Fox Farm Soil or would run off numbers be the same if using organic coco? I'm only using Jacks 321 Part A - 3.6g Epsom 1.2g Part B 2.4g all per gallon
 
HydroKid239

HydroKid239

Well-Known Member
It's pointless to mix coco loco with another regular soil. I think it only defeats the purpose. All coco loco does differently is hold water better. I've used it. It's really nothing special. If mixing with another soil, you now have less of that.
I also think this was nute burn turned to a possible lockout by adding higher ppm. Unless you are hitting those plants with good PPFD I would think you are also overfeeding in general. They may need a little flush to get your ppm back on the radar. If the PH of the water is in the 7's I wouldn't even bother ph'ing it, but I would PH the feed. (You're not looking for the plant to take up any water you're flushing with is my logic there.)
 
Amateur-Grower

Amateur-Grower

Well-Known Member
HydroKid239 said:
It's pointless to mix coco loco with another regular soil. I think it only defeats the purpose. All coco loco does differently is hold water better. I've used it. It's really nothing special. If mixing with another soil, you now have less of that.
I also think this was nute burn turned to a possible lockout by adding higher ppm. Unless you are hitting those plants with good PPFD I would think you are also overfeeding in general. They may need a little flush to get your ppm back on the radar. If the PH of the water is in the 7's I wouldn't even bother ph'ing it, but I would PH the feed. (You're not looking for the plant to take up any water you're flushing with is my logic there.)
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Next watering I'll just got with plain ph'd water (6.4-6.5) to see if I can get a better reading. I don't mix coco loco with another soil. I posted a picture of what I use. I'm thinking of switching to Fox Farm Ocean Forest next grow.
 

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Turpman

Turpman

Well-Known Member
Amateur-Grower said:
Could my run off have anything to do with using Fox Farm Soil or would run off numbers be the same if using organic coco? I'm only using Jacks 321 Part A - 3.6g Epsom 1.2g Part B 2.4g all per gallon
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Yes everything you add can affect the ppm of your media even straight coco has salts in it.
You can’t force feed a plant it will only use what it wants. If your feeding to high ppm the plant will use some nutes and leave the rest. You add more high ppm and it just keeps building in your media till your way over. I try to keep my runoff within 100 to 200 ppm of what I’m adding. If it gets too high straight water for a feed or 2.
I’m not a big believer of the feed heavy with heavy runoff. Waste of nutes. I feed jacks 400-600 ppm pending what’s going on. Very little runoff.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
From the look of those leaves in the last pic those plants have been chronically overfed and have stored excess salts in the leaves. Gonna look like they've been hit with a flame thrower half way thru flower.

When it comes to feeding pot plants less = more. So much easier to fix a low nutrient problem than what you have going on.

I'd listen to @HydoDan up there but in your case I would saturate the pot with RO water. Let it sit for an hour at least then pour a whole pot volume of 50% or lower nute water at pH 6 to reset the root zone. Full dose of Calmag with that nute mix as it's coco.

What water do you use? If tap what is it's ppm?

:peace:
 
Amateur-Grower

Amateur-Grower

Well-Known Member
Did a watering with just ph and my ppm meter gave me a reading on the runoff. Seems my ppm levels are high. Around 1800. Gonna keep giving my plants straight ph’d water till I’m around 1100-1200 ppm then add nutrients back in at 50%
 

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B

boostedhonda

Well-Known Member
I’m in straight coco, and I have been feeding a 3 ec ( ~2000ppms). I was using full strength 321 for a while, but the clones I’m running are heavy feeders. Kept getting different deficiencies until I upped my nute strength. Jacks website recommends a 2.4 ec for veg. Mixing 3.78/2.52/.99 per gallon only gives you an ec around 1.8
 

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Amateur-Grower

Amateur-Grower

Well-Known Member
After a week of plain ph'd water this is my run off today. I watered with 160 ounces of water, Got about 32 ounces run off. PPM was around 1150 and a EC of 2.4. Should I start going back to using nutrients? I am almost a week into flower and starting to see some yellowing leaves at the bottom.
 
Hollatchaboy

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
Coco Loco, has organic matter in it, i.e. bat guano, ewc, kelp meal, etc..... It probably would've gotten you through veg, without additional nutes. Your nutrient strength, seems a lil high to me. I don't really go over 1.2 ec, less chance of salt buildup.
You don't wanna use plain water in coco. It doesn't get out all the salt buildup, and if it did, there wouldn't be enough nutrition, at the right ratios, to nourish the plant. A milder nutrient solution, will help remove residual salts, and replenish the medium, with correct ratio nutrients, so when the lockout ceases, there will be some nutrition for the plant.
 
Amateur-Grower

Amateur-Grower

Well-Known Member
Hollatchaboy said:
Coco Loco, has organic matter in it, i.e. bat guano, ewc, kelp meal, etc..... It probably would've gotten you through veg, without additional nutes. Your nutrient strength, seems a lil high to me. I don't really go over 1.2 ec, less chance of salt buildup.
You don't wanna use plain water in coco. It doesn't get out all the salt buildup, and if it did, there wouldn't be enough nutrition, at the right ratios, to nourish the plant. A milder nutrient solution, will help remove residual salts, and replenish the medium, with correct ratio nutrients, so when the lockout ceases, there will be some nutrition for the plant.
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I'm using Jacks 321 nutrients. Part A 3.6g Epsom 1.2g Part B 2.4g all per gallon. Should I go back to using nutrients, but at a lower dosage? I found a feeding chart where I can bring it down to 80% or 50% strength.
 
Hollatchaboy

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
Amateur-Grower said:
I'm using Jacks 321 nutrients. Part A 3.6g Epsom 1.2g Part B 2.4g all per gallon. Should I go back to using nutrients, but at a lower dosage? I found a feeding chart where I can bring it down to 80% or 50% strength.
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It's up to you. Some plants can handle increased nutrients, others, not so much. It's good to grow a pheno of a particular strain a few times, learn what it likes and doesn't like. Personally, I start off low, and work my way up. It's easier to fix a deficiency, than toxicity, and, or lockout.
 
Amateur-Grower

Amateur-Grower

Well-Known Member
I have a question about how much run off I'm supposed to get. A lot of people say 25% of what you put into the pot. But when I water with 1 gallon of water I get about 16 ounces of run off. So do I just keep adding water/feed until I reach that 25% which would be 32 ounces or is it gonna be 25% of what gets added extra?
 
Billy the Mountain

Billy the Mountain

Well-Known Member
Amateur-Grower said:
I have a question about how much run off I'm supposed to get. A lot of people say 25% of what you put into the pot. But when I water with 1 gallon of water I get about 16 ounces of run off. So do I just keep adding water/feed until I reach that 25% which would be 32 ounces or is it gonna be 25% of what gets added extra?
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Add another 16 oz and call it a day.

22% vs 25% is meaningless.

calculation-math.gif
 
Turpman

Turpman

Well-Known Member
Just some thoughts.
You may have damaged roots, in flower the root recovery is almost 0.
Rule of thumb is 300ppm over what's going in for runoff.
Things really depend on your vpd. Dry side plants have to pull lots of moisture in if they can't use the nutes in it builds up and if gets too high will burn the roots.
I like coco but to me drain to waste is just that, a lot of waste. So I feed on the conservative side with little runoff. I'll give plants a good rinse every so often. Monitor runoff. If it gets above the 300 above feed. Cut back.
 
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