Sannies versus Attitude

i wasnt born when any of those strains were around but im sure they were sick. was able to try some really good panama red from some *cough* older people and it was very nice. if we're talking mainstream though i like dinafem for sativa strains.

the thing about sativas back then was that you felt like getting up and doing something, throw a football, frisbees were made for that stuff. Panama red, guerrero (sp) gold, thai, lambs bread, all kinds. its nice that one of us old farts turned you on to pan red, you should have listened to Cheech and Chongs big bamboo album afterwards and ate a big bowl of Crunchberries.

i have ordered 2 times from the tude and 4 times from Sannie...i live not far from the east coast and none of these orders took longer than 8 days to show up. except for the first order from Sannie which was caught by customs and Sannie reshipped the order and it was then recieved in 8 days or less. I honestly would order from either of these seed banks again. My only complaint with Sannie is that 90% of his strains are indoor only strains and i don't have room to grow indoors right now. So i only have 1 or 2 choices if i order from Sannie for outdoor strains.

many people grow "indoor" strains outside. i understand some strains don't do as well but, just check the outdoor section of opengrow you'll find all kinds of strains in the shop grown outdoors.

wil2279 said:

My only complaint with Sannie is that 90% of his strains are indoor only strains and i don't have room to grow indoors right now. So i only have 1 or 2 choices if i order from Sannie for outdoor strains.

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While not about indoor or outdoor strains the point I was making was basically the same, a very small very limited number of strains and strain types from a breeder direct sales business versus an actual seedbank that sells the seeds of many different breeders giving a customer a vast selection of most any strain type they could ever hope to find.

My point was not at all about Sannie's being low quality, because that is NOT the case. It is only one of an extremely limited selection versus an extremely vast selection. Some people will be able to find what they like at Sannie's and never need to purchase from any other source. But for some Sannie's just does not offer anything they they want, like or need so unless they can find it from another breeder direct sales site they need to deal with an actual seedbank that offers a very wide selection from many different breeders.

^^^^ you know that's exactly how i feel about attitude. i don't want anything from them. most of the breeders are lame, they've been caught selling knockoff seeds. they have a very bad reputation outside of the customers on riu and one other board i've seen. alot of the breeders they stock have low quality genetics(that's why you see so, many people with low germination rates). i can source the same breeders seeds that i do like else where @ a much cheaper price. also, what i've learned over the years is that most of attitudes clientele is young inexperienced growers or wannabe growers with very little knowledge of the breeders or elite strains. most connoiseurs across many herb boards turn their noses up @ attitude because, word travels fast in this industry about bad experiences and overall fuckery to those in the know. i don't wanna pay for another order in order to get my first order that didn't come. you can't even talk to them about your purchase because, it's supposed to be a souvenir and if, your seeds don't come they reserve the right to not be responsible, that's also very lame. they spam you. i hate spam email! no, i don't want your lame ass dinafem freebies.

in reference to the strain selection you have over 40+ strains in the shop that all come from elite genetics with all of them being of high quality. name any breeder with as long a line up taking all three sections into consideration. i think there is a miscommunication of the geneology of his genetics to those who don't know what is considered to be "elite." sannie is dutch and doesn't name his strains kush this or kush that so, someone new will be a little thrown off but, look @ the P1's and you know you've got some serious firepower. furthermore, you don't find all breeders strain descriptions true to life. sannie crosses breed true which is a great indication of his selections and technique.

i think we need to sit back and think about what exactly we're comparing. a connoisseur breeder bringing elite clone only genetics to the market @ wholesale prices with unparalelled customer service(yet to see an unhappy one) vs. a commercial seed distributor hell bent on profits with great marketing limited top tier breeders a long list of poor customer service mixed in with a respectable amount of good customer service and zero accountability for your order per their disclaimer.

what breeder on attitude realistically stacks up. of course, there's some breeders with fine genetics on there but, honestly some have questionable breeding skillz. which is why alot of those in the know stay away from attitude. the older breeders are basically living off the reputation of years past and with the u.s. medical scene pushing the quality of fine cannabis light speed ahead those breeders are no longer relative. dj short not being one of them and we all know why he said not to buy from the attitude.

why not????????????

dirtyshawa said:

^^^^ you know that's exactly how i feel about attitude. i don't want anything from them. most of the breeders are lame, they've been caught selling knockoff seeds. they have a very bad reputation outside of the customers on riu and one other board i've seen.

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If you are talking percentages of high quality breeders to mid quality breeders to pure pollen chuckers to Sannie alone then what you said about lame breeders is correct.But some of their products come from some of the very best breeders in the world, ones with long histories of creating some of the very best strains ever and it is the buyers job to pick them rather than the work of some pollen chucker if they want top quality. Because Attitude offers a vast range of genetics that does include some pollen chuckers does not make the lines that are from some of the best breeders in the world lower quality than they actually are.

And yes they did sell some DJ Short seeds that were fakes, fakes that were sold to them by a wholesaler and that were in packaging that was a copy of DJ Shorts and when they found out they made things right for the customers who got the fakes that they were first sold as being the real deal.

People like you attempt to make it sound like Attitude sold a bunch of unmarked beans and only claimed them to be DJ Short's or that Attitude paid to have fake identical breeder packs manufactured and filled with fake's and intentionally sold them as something they knew they were not and that when they learned they were fakes just told their customers tough luck or screw off rather than do what they did and make things right for them.

As for Attitude's reputation:

Last Updated: Feb/14/11



Greetings growers this is for medical marijuana users and those who can use the information legally. Seedbank ratings are farther down and the links to growing information are near the end.

The seedbank update has now racked up over 13 continuous years of service to growers and seed buyers. Many people count on it to avoid the many many ripoffs who are out there. It would not be possible without you, the buyer who sends in your report.



Feb 14 being valentine's day and the day to celebrate love is appropriate for the latest update. You outdoor growers want to get your plants started so that you can put them outside after the last frost. Indoor growers take advantage of the cool weather to crank up the light power.



The post office in the USA often gets funny about delivering letters. People many times use a fake name to get orders sent to them. The trouble is that the letter carrier may not deliver it if they do not recognize the name. Before you send your order, send a letter to yourself using the name and see if it arrives. Then make your order. Ask the company first if they send to your country. If no reply, do not order.



If you have bought from a seedbank send in your report so that other people will know how good or bad it was. No seeds are sold from this site. This center is only for information. You may also send in a grow report on a variety you grew out.



To reach me write to [email protected] remove the ZZZ. Please do not write me at 37.com, only at the email address listed without the ZZZ.



This group I've heard good things about. Those with four stars or more are the most reliable. They will send to most countries. I've tried to list those that ship worldwide. Those with a relatively low rating may just be new to the ratings. It takes a while to earn a good rating. A 1/2 means they are half way to the next star.



I keep getting bad reports on bc bud depot. Non delivery or poor quality seeds if they do arrive.



Attitude 4 star 1/2 (F****1/2)
Bluenose 3 star (***) (2)
Dr. Greenthumbs 4 star (F****) (1,2,3)
Hemp Depot 4 star and 1/2 (F****1/2) (1,2,4,)
Hemcy 4 and 1/2 star (F****1/2) (1,4)
Highland 2 star and 1/2 (**1/2)
Joey Weed 4 star and a half (F****1/2) (1,2)
Klozit King 3 star and 1/2 (***1/2) (1,2)
Natural Mystic 3 star and 1/2 (***1/2)
Peakseeds BC 4 star and 1/2 (****1/2)F
Seedboutique 3 stars and 1/2 (F***1/2) (1)
Seedbank.co.uk 2 star and 1/2 (**1/2)
Tambu 3 star (S***) (1,3)


The limited area seedbanks and a list of bad ones to avoid will be found farther down.


Check out the new and unrated seedbanks at the New page. These are seedbanks I've heard good things about but haven't had enough reports on to make a rating.



I don't have time to answer individual questions so I usually just tell people to do some reading. I have information on my site and links to other sites with even more info.



Would you like to see your grow report in the SU? Please include the name of the strain, where obtained, how it grew, potency and yield. Tell us the names of other strains you grew or smoked for comparison. Cultivation tips and news items are also welcome. You can get credit under any name you prefer or stay anonymous. If you like I will rewrite it for you.


To reach me write to [email protected] (remove ZZZ)



This is a report on which seedbanks are reliable and give good service. I also list some bad ones to stay away from (crooks). Reports from people who have ordered from cannabis seedbanks are welcome. That's what this is based on, reports from people like you. You can send your report to me at [email protected] (remove ZZZ) If you send a report please state what bank you ordered from, how long it took and roughly how far away you are from them. I'd like to know if the packaging was stealty (well hidden) and what method used and if any seeds were crushed. Any other info you think is important will be appreciated. Reports on how the crop turned out are good too. I don't rate companies on price, that's up to you to compare.
The more stars, the more reliable. F = faster than average, no letter = average, S = slow.



I have a system of additional ratings. They are a one (1) for accepting payment by money order or certified check without charging extra for it. A two (2) will be given for free stealth shipping. A three (3) will be given for accepting credit cards. This leaves a paper trail but is quick and easy. (4) indicates that they use PGP code for privacy on request. A five (5) means Western Union is accepted. A six (6) indicates customer complaints about seed quality. An example of the new rating might be Ed's seeds (***) (1,2) which means three stars and he gives free shipping and takes money orders with no extra charge.




These seedbanks send to certain countries only.



Dr Chronic 3 star and 1/2 (F***1/2)
Pukka 2 star (**) (1)
Sensi Seed 4 star and 1/2 (****1/2)
Nirvana Shop3 star and 1/2 (***1/2)
Seeds of Passion2 star (**)


These are seed breeders and wholesalers primarily. While they have a good reputation, I don't have enough information about their mail order seed business to make a rating.



BCGA
Bros Grimm
Dutch Passion
Fantaseeds
Greenhouse
Homegrown Fantaseed
KC Brains
Serious
(and many others)



This is the rip-off section. The following seedbanks I've heard many bad things about. They are NOT recommended. aka means also known as. X means they seldom or never send the product. N means sending non viable seeds (non sprouting seeds) M indicates they send very inferior seeds or nothing at all.



A-1 Seedbank (X,N)
BC Seeds (X,M)
Beeoo (X)
Fairlight (X,N)
Greenmanspage (X,M)
marijuanaseed.us (X) Software Services aka Cannabis4u aka Medical hemp aka [email protected] [L.Pafort] (X)
Richies Seedshack (X)
Stinkey's (X)
Weedseed (X)
Pot a Gold (X)


These seedbanks are not recommended due to excessive complaints. This is a judgement call and some customers have said they were satisfied. The nature of the complaints are as follows: 10 = non delivery, 11 = very poor customer service, 12 = inferior quality or misrepresented seeds, 13 = unethical conduct by seedbank owner.


BCbuddepot (11, 10)
Bullmall aka Bull-electrical.com (10, 11)
Cannabisseeds.com (10) Ganjaland (10)
Greater Harmony (10)
Kindseed (10)
Laughing Moon (10, 11)
Seedbank Co uk (11)
Seedbank.com (10)
Topseeds (10)




I have relied on Greenman's ratings site for about 11 years now and I have always purchased from the highest rated sites and I have never been ripped off once. His ratings are complied from reports from growers all around the world and are not just the opinions of a small handful of growers on one site or another where there, for some inexplicable reason, always seems to be one or two seedbanks who on that site are considered to be the very best and all the rest are considered to be crap.

Enough reports from growers all around the world seem to have been enough for Attitude to be as highly rated as any on Greenman's rating page. Attitude did not start out highly rated just as no newly added seedbank starts out highly rated when first added. That was not because they sucked at the time but instead because a high rating has to be earned, it has to come from a high enough number and high enough percentage of satisfied customers. It took about a year and a half before Attitude matched the highest rating of any seedbank on the sites, but it got there. More and more people began using it and more and more said they were pleased with their purchase.

Earning a rating like that on the oldest, longest running seedbank rating site online says a heck of a lot more than the opinions of the majority of any grow site membership which in any case is only a small handful, a tiny percentage of the total number of growers in the world who rely seedbanks for their seeds.

let's start with dj short. dj short said, buyer beware don't buy his seeds from any company in europe other than seedboutique or seedbay, they are either fakes or knockoffs. people were on icmag like how are these clowns claiming to have dj shorts gear when his seed was sold out and dj called them out. just telling it as it is. he said, they're fakes and knockoffs if, they don't come from the boo or bay. don't get mad @ me get made @ the company selling fakes. dj short doesn't give them seeds to sell. simple! who knows where they got the replacement seeds to give out.

moving on, what is a pollen chucker and what is a breeder? sannie is no pollen chucker, all you have to do is look @ his diary and you'll see his selection process is extremely picky. i think in a progressive manner and i know we all like to live in the nostalgia of back in the day, but, that is just it. those times were back in the day. it is a fact that cannabis seized by police in the 60's had extremely low levels of thc(single digits). Today police routinely seize herb with levels in the high teens to 20's and even low 30's. I don't doubt there was fine herb back in the day but, through improved breeding techniques those strains you elude to of yesterday have been improved upon through cross breeding.

The impression I get from some who get fucked over by them is weird to me. It's puzzling in fact. I think if, you still do business with any seedbank/company who gives you immature seeds, failed deliveries, fake seeds, or bad customer service then the person @ fault is you. To each his own, spend your money as you please. I sleep well knowing I don't have to worry about any of that and I'd bet my herb is more dank! That's all that matters to me anyway. The genetics I have everyone who's had experience with them beit smoking or growing them is in agreement that we have top tier dank.

The ratings site you reference is a good indicator of what's what and who's who to you but, I'm from the show me state(not really). I want to see concrete evidence. I want to see my seeds bred, I want to see test grows, I want smoke reports, real time ordering, the whole gambit. Especially, if I'm gonna send my hard earned money across seas. All I'm saying is you will not find a dissatisfied customer who dealt with sannie

dirtyshawa said:

let's start with dj short. dj short said, buyer beware don't buy his seeds from any company in europe other than seedboutique or seedbay, they are either fakes or knockoffs. people were on icmag like how are these clowns claiming to have dj shorts gear when his seed was sold out and dj called them out. just telling it as it is. he said, they're fakes and knockoffs if, they don't come from the boo or bay. don't get mad @ me get made @ the company selling fakes. dj short doesn't give them seeds to sell. simple! who knows where they got the replacement seeds to give out.

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If you followed the actual events rather that parrot what others who did not know what they were talking about, and only sticking with one thing said by DJ Shorts at the time, you would not have said the above.

Attitude purchased beans from a wholesaler who ripped off Attitude by selling them fake DJ Shorts beans in counterfeit DJ Shorts breeder packs. When it was found out Attitude made it right. They got real DJ Shorts beans, as they now have, and they took care of the customers who ended up with the fakes that Attitude got when they were ripped off.

You attempt to make it sound as if Attitude intentionally sold fake DJ Short beans, that they were behind it when instead they were a victim of a dishonest wholesaler and then bit the financial bullet for their customers.

moving on, what is a pollen chucker and what is a breeder? sannie is no pollen chucker, all you have to do is look @ his diary and you'll see his selection process is extremely picky.

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Either you do not read what I write or else you have severely low skills of reading comprehension or short term memory problems. REPEATEDLY I have clearly stated that Sannie's gear is quality gear. REPEATEDLY I have said that. How in the wide, wide world of sports did you miss that?

In differing variations I have said the following, which was C&P'd from message number 25; "My point was not at all about Sannie's being low quality, because that is NOT the case. It is only one of an extremely limited selection versus an extremely vast selection."


You are evidently just another Sannie's cheerleader and an Attitude hater. No one else could totally ignore where I have clearly stated that Sannie's gear is quality and that my only problem with his line is how it is extremely limited and how it does not offer one single 100% sativa, which is what I love the most. so it offers me nothing of what I love the most.

i think in a progressive manner and i know we all like to live in the nostalgia of back in the day, but, that is just it. those times were back in the day. it is a fact that cannabis seized by police in the 60's had extremely low levels of thc(single digits). Today police routinely seize herb with levels in the high teens to 20's and even low 30's. I don't doubt there was fine herb back in the day but, through improved breeding techniques those strains you elude to of yesterday have been improved upon through cross breeding.

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No, you are just another puppy who does not know the facts, who does not know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and who wants and needs to believe the very opposite.

I have told the complete version here far too many times to type it all out again but the way THC levels were tested in the 60's and the 70's was later changed and that is what resulted in much higher levels of THC than what was claimed to exist in the past. In the past they did not only test glandular trichome heads and in the past every single bit of matter and element within a trichome head was factored into the equation and that watered down the THC percentage. Later, around the time of true professional breeders, as in breeding businesses, started to pop up the way THC levels were tested was changed, it was altered, it was performed in a different manner where ONLY cannabinods from glandular trichome heads were gathered and tested. At that point THC became only a percentage of cannabinoids found in glandular trichome heads rather than a percentage of everything found within any type of trichome.


Here is an example of one breeder who advertises one of it's strains where the THC level was tested using the old testing method and the new testing method. Be sure to notice the BIG difference in the percentage of THC in the exact same strain from the exact same breeder.

World of Seeds Bank - Afgan Kush


Strain: Afgan Kush
Breeder: World of Seeds
Location: indoor, outdoor
Type: indica
Flowering: ~50 days
Normal or female seeds.
Way of cropping: Mainly indoor/very good yield outdoor
Race: Pure race obtained from the Afgani Kush zone
Genotype: Almost 100% Indica
High: Less than 1.5 m indoor/ until 2 meters outdoor
Wide: Depending on prune. Some branched without prune
Growing time: Three weeks
Harvest time: 45-55 days indoor/average October outdoor/pollitano
Resistance to mushrooms: Average
Resistance to plague: Depends on the plague
Irrigation tolerance: High tolerance to frequent irrigation and fertilization
Yield: Over 400 gr per m2 indoor/ 500 - 600 gr per plant outdoor
Medicinal value: High (for its high content in CBD).Excellent like anti-emetic and antispasmodic
Smell: Hashish.
Flavor: Fruity-sweet.
Effects: Very narcotic, almost devastating

THC Level: 21.6% measured upon the rest of cannabinoids. 7.4% measured upon the rest of organic substances belonging to buds like: amino-acids, sugars, terpenoids, vegetal hormones, and cannabinoids (determined by gas chromatography coupled with mass spectrometry)


Did you happen to notice how the THC level DROPPED from 21.6% all the way down to a single digit number, that being 7.4%?
Puppies like you fail to know that the way THC levels were tested was changed and the change of testing procedure way the MAIN reason why it suddenly seemed as if super-potent strains had been created.


What puppies like you also fail to know is that there still exists two different modern testing procedures that result in massively different THC levels being found and that 'The Dutch Masters' of course only use the procedure that shows a higher percentage, since only that would make them appear to be creating strains that are far more potent than ever before. There is what is called a calculated active cannabinoid test and a relative ratio cannabinoid test. Below are the results from an independent test on Green House Seeds Super Lemon Haze using both testing procedures. Be sure to pay close attention to the MASSIVE difference in the percentage of THC.

Calculated Active Cannabinoids

CBD:
0.63%

CBN:
0.27%

THC:
23.98%

CBC:
0%

THCV:
0%






Relative Ratio Cannabinoids

CBD:
0.25

CBN:
0.11

THC:
9.64

CBC:
0

THCV:
0



Did you by chance notice how a THC level of 23.98% DROPPED all the way down into single digits, that being 9.64%?



Something else puppies like you do not know is in the 60's and 70's many of the samples that were used for testing were from large busts of low grade seedy commercial pot was found in something like a tractor trailer or in a warehouse or something and that many times it would be stored, for as much as a year or more before testing, in government warehouses or sometimes under open sided sheds or left in the confiscated tractor trailer or even in the open under tarps and in that amount of time due to exposure to heat and sometimes sunlight much THC degraded before testing was performed.

If someone were to grow the strain that today has the highest tested level of THC, which would of course mean they relied on the calculated active cannabinoid testing method, and allowed it to be pollinated, grew it with seeds, stored it for as long as pot in the past was stored before testing and stored under the same conditions as pot was stored at the time and then tested it using the old testing procedure I would bet my left nut that it would not test any higher than any strain of the 60's or 70's and might even end up testing lower. In fact I would guarantee that it would test lower than some strains of that era.

Puppies like you do not know the true history of pot. Puppies like you never experienced the real true honest to goodness pure famous strains of the past. Puppies like you totally lack an equal frame of reference of potency and quality that those of us of 'The Woodstock Generation' possess.



Puppies like you talk of things you know nothing about and talk about things you have never experienced in your entire life as if you are experts on them when in fact you do not possess the slightest clue of the real true facts, you have no grasp of the true reality of which you speak.

The impression I get from some who get fucked over by them is weird to me. It's puzzling in fact. I think if, you still do business with any seedbank/company who gives you immature seeds, failed deliveries, fake seeds, or bad customer service then the person @ fault is you.

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And of course you know for a fact that not so much as one single customer of Sannies never received a single immature seed or failed to receive delivery or was not totally satisfied in any way for any reason, right? You can of course support that position, can't you? If not you should not be using such claims of experiences with Attitude or any other seedbank as an indictment or condemnation or denunciation or judgment.

I have owned three successful businesses in my life and if there is one single thing I have learned from it is it is utterly impossible to never make an error or never upset a customer at some time or another. It is impossible to run a flawless business and anyone who believes otherwise has never owned and run a business and has virtually no grasp of reality when it comes to business operation .... none ... none at all.

The ratings site you reference is a good indicator of what's what and who's who to you but, I'm from the show me state(not really). I want to see concrete evidence. I want to see my seeds bred, I want to see test grows, I want smoke reports, real time ordering, the whole gambit. Especially, if I'm gonna send my hard earned money across seas. All I'm saying is you will not find a dissatisfied customer who dealt with sannie.

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I have read messages where people said they were disappointed or dissatisfied with what they purchased from Sannie's or that their order was never received so how can you believe that you can honestly say; "All I'm saying is you will not find a dissatisfied customer who dealt with sannie?" How can you support your statement, only because you have never been let down by Sannie's and that it is a rare thing to happen so people do not read about it often?

As I have REPEATEDLY said, if Sannie's offers someone a strain or strains they like, and enough of them that they need not look to any other breeder to find what they like, then by all means purchase from Sannie's and Sannie's alone. Sannie's gear is NOT low quality by any means. It is only, like many breeder lines, highly limited in numbers of strains and in variety of strains and in the case of a 100% sativa not so much as one single one can be found at Sannies.

As for the seedbank rating site I posted, as I pointed out, the ratings are based on reports from growers all over the world and are not based on the highly limited opinion of any growing site and most definitely not based on your opinion or on my opinion. The ratings come from the results of a vastly larger number of growers so that in and of itself give credibility to them.

Also, as I clearly stated, I have relied on Greenman's ratings site for about 11 years now. I have always only purchased from the seeedbanks that at the time had the highest ratings and I have never once been ripped off, I have never once not had so much as a single order not arrive or not arrive in full or arrive incorrectly.

The only way I could say I have experienced any level or degree of disappointment was when rather than like usual purchasing from one or more of the very best of the very best breeders in the world I would experiment to see if some 'flavor of the month' strain that people on this site or on some other similar site were going all Lady Gaga over so I could see for myself if it was in fact as good as so many were claiming or nearly as good as so many were claiming or if it was average or if it sucked big time. Far more times than not the strains that most people were raving over were at best just a bit better than average and most times they were of average quality or lower.

But just because a seedbank offers strains for sale that are not all the best of the best is in no way proof of the business itself not being good or honest or reliable. It only means they offer a wide selection so there will be something there for everyone. Even as reasonably priced as most Sannie's strains are there are some people who do not have the funds to purchase them, there are people whose budgets are so tight that even Sannie's mostly reasonable prices are beyond. Seedbanks that have a vastly wider selection of breeder lines and strains provide a service to people like that. They offer them seeds they can afford. Yes the quality will not be up there with something from Shantibaba or Serious Seeds or Sensi Seeds or Reeferman or Sannie's or others, but if it is all someone can afford and they want to grow those low priced lower quality breeder lines are all they can afford, all they can choose from, so no seedbank that offers them should be considered to be of low quality and instead applauded for tying up their operating capital so they can offer strains of all price ranges.

As I said, not everyone can afford the very best and not everyone can even afford fairly high quality to high quality if reasonably priced and can only purchase what they can afford. At my old Lincoln-Mercury dealership we sold a Hell of a lot more new Tracers than we sold Lincoln Town Cars or Lincoln Continentals or Lincoln Mark VIII's. The Lincoln's were vastly higher in quality but there were far fewer people who could afford one. If we did not stock the Tracer and the Topaz and the Sable and even the Grand Marquis we would have excluded most of our customer base from being able to purchase from us.

Unless I am out to satisfy my curiosity by testing one of the 'flavor of the month' strains that so many people rave about that almost always comes from a breeder that is not a true high quality breeder I only purchase from the lines of several absolutely top line breeders because I know I can always rely on receiving quality and consistency, and that not only goes for Attitude because Attitude it not the only seedbank I use. But most breeders that Attitude, and every other seedbanks I used, are not ones I would purchase from unless it is a matter of curiosity about what so many people are going all Lady Gaga over.

Most are average at best when it comes to talent, their stable of breeding strains is highly limited and largely relies on the work of others or reusing previous strains they have made crossing them with other previous strains they have made, they tend to be very heavy into predominantly indica crosses which are not my thing and if they are lucky enough to come up with something that is pretty darn good it is more a case of how even a blind squirrel will find a nut now and then rather than something they created through true skill.

More than just a few rely largely on what are little more than gimmicks. They offer pretty colors and exotic aromas and fruity Pebbles flavors or other things that are in fact gimmicks like auto-flowering strains and even feminized beans. Not so much as one of those things has ever added up to higher quality or increased potency. Those breeders are incapable of offering customers anything more so they have to heavily rely on gimmicks, on the new model with the go faster stripes.

Some of the better breeders in the last few years have stooped to offering feminized seeds and even auto-flowering strains because the some breeders have managed to propagandize buyers into believing they are the way to go, and the buyers have fallen for it hook line and sinker, so to attempt to regain market-share even some of the best breeders, who know damn well that those products are for the most part crap, have had to resort to offering them too just to retain sufficient numbers of sales.

But then it comes to actual true potency, to true levels of THC, there has never been the massive increase in levels that the puppies of today fully believe occurred. The only differences that had actually occurred since the advent of the professional breeding business is the early lower quality failure strains have more or less vanished and the average level of quality has increased, but the highest quality, the most potent strains of all has not increased as the puppies of today believe it has. The other difference is there is more variety but then things have long since surpassed the point of overkill when it comes to variety. So many of today's strains are so very close to being the same thing that if tomorrow one quarter to one third of all existing strains vanished no one would be unable to find what they like because there would still be so many left that are so close to being the very same thing that no one would lose anything. The only difference is they would be purchasing the same old, same old from a different breeder.

Regardless of if you, or anyone else, accepts so much as a single word above it is all fact and no amount of personal opinion or personal preference will ever be enough to alter facts.

From my experience with both sannie and attitude.Sannie has better genetics,better customer service(sannie always fixes what ever the problem)and all strands are true to breeder discription.In other words what you see on the site is what you get when grown out.Attitude has good genetics but stock old seeds that dont germ.When you contact them they will not fix the problem hide behind that souvenir purposes shit.Sannie strains are impressive even the freebies are top notch.I dont know what he's doing but other breeders need to take notes.I havent grown any seed from him that has not made me happy.So far as im concerned sannie hands down over freekin attitude aint even close.

Bt is correct my friend...it is the testing method....I used to hallucinate on the weed of the '70's.....that is a rare thing now because of the indicas watering down the thcv to nothing... and Sannies is awesome...but not for everyone...some of us like the wild ride...

Namaste'

SANNIES IS TOP NOTCH FOR SURE...AS ARE MANY OF THE BREEDERS AT ATTITUDE....ATTITUDE IS NOT A BREEDER BUT SOME ARE AS AWESOME AS SANNIE....UNDERSTAND NOW...IF NOT NEVERMIND AS YOU NEVER WILL

well this thread has not gone the way I meant it to go. First off here is the deal Myself and most everyone understands the Attitude is NOT a breeder, so stop going on and on about it.

Second, who cares who grows and packages what. I am talking about who is the better store.

Better prices, better customer service, better stealth, better ship/wait times. Thats what I am talking about non of this nonsense about who grows what who likes sativas versus indicas.

Just a plain old match versus stores nothing more nothing less.

reddog3000 said:

From my experience with both sannie and attitude.Sannie has better genetics,

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The last time I counted Attitude carried something like 90 different breeder lines and I know they have added some since and have more that will soon be added. How many strains of each of the 90-plus breeders have you personally grown to compare to Sannies small handful of strains?

Sannies is quality, there is NO questioning that, but there is no way anyone can honestly and accurately say that he is any better, or possibly even as good, as some of the breeders you find on Attitude's site.

So you're another Sannie's cheerleader ... well rah, rah sis boom bah for Sannie's ... but that does not diminish the quality of the number of absolutely top notch breeder lines that Attitude handles. Sannie's is just another GOOD choice of where to purchase beans, IF his highly limited line offers someone what they like and want the most. If not, unlike with Attitude, you cannot just click one of roughly 90+ a different breeder lines and find what you like and want. Your only option then is to leave Sannie's and look elsewhere.

Johnboh said:

well this thread has not gone the way I meant it to go. First off here is the deal Myself and most everyone understands the Attitude is NOT a breeder, so stop going on and on about it.

Second, who cares who grows and packages what. I am talking about who is the better store.

Better prices, better customer service, better stealth, better ship/wait times. Thats what I am talking about non of this nonsense about who grows what who likes sativas versus indicas.

Just a plain old match versus stores nothing more nothing less.

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Threads take twists and turns and swerves and only very, very seldom follow a straight course ........... learn it, live it, love it.

I think that comparing Sannie's to The Attitude is a total waste of time. Neither is the "Best" choice for everyone. It is like comparing some little country store to Walmart.... Sannie has amazing service and if you find something he has that you really want... you will not have a more plesant seed buying esperience. However you don't get the choices you get when you order from The Attitude. If I had room to grow inside all the time, I would hardly ever order from anyone but Sannie, but if you want something spacific... well maybe Sannie doesn't carry it. Let's say you want something with a nice sweet cherry flavor... you could order Soma Seeds Reclining Buddha from The Tude, but Sannie doesn't have a strain with that kinda flavor. or maybe you want to grow a wonderful Blueberry indica, well sannie has things that are close to that but not a pure blueberry indica so you either have to compromise what you want or go somewhere else to get your beans.

i love when we attitude and sanniez fans have this back and forth i dont think sanniez is bad per se but tude just gets to me faster, plus their specials win for the most part.

wil2279 said:

I think that comparing Sannie's to The Attitude is a total waste of time. Neither is the "Best" choice for everyone. It is like comparing some little country store to Walmart.... Sannie has amazing service and if you find something he has that you really want... you will not have a more plesant seed buying esperience. However you don't get the choices you get when you order from The Attitude. If I had room to grow inside all the time, I would hardly ever order from anyone but Sannie, but if you want something spacific... well maybe Sannie doesn't carry it. Let's say you want something with a nice sweet cherry flavor... you could order Soma Seeds Reclining Buddha from The Tude, but Sannie doesn't have a strain with that kinda flavor. or maybe you want to grow a wonderful Blueberry indica, well sannie has things that are close to that but not a pure blueberry indica so you either have to compromise what you want or go somewhere else to get your beans.

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It's just one more of the typical apples and oranges comparisons that are made here, and on other sites like this, on a fairly regular basis. Illogical and irrational arguments are presented for each point of view with little to no consideration of the true differences between the opposing positions being argued.

Attitude is likely the largest seedbank on the world, at least in numbers of breeder lines they carry. Sannie's is Sannie's, a breeder who sells direct. There is no way in the world anyone can compare selection. Sannie's line is a quality line, that is not being questioned. Attitude carries the lines of some of the best, most famous breeder lines ever with proven histories of creating strains that in some cases shook the entire pot growing/smoking world, that raised the quality bar so high that it can be rightfully argued that at least some have never to date been topped, so a comparison of quality offered cannot accurately be made unless someone only focuses on the mid and low grade breeders Attitude offers and ignores the top line breeders Attitude also offers. Actual shipping cannot ever be argued unless someone knows for a fact that a seedbank or breeder direct sales business will wait days or a week or maybe never ship rather than shipping by the next business day at the latest, that is of course assuming a strain or strains is in stock when an order is processed. Once an order leaves any seedbank or any breeder direct sales business it is then in the hands of one or more mail services and often times a Customs department. Any delays once an order has been shipped can in no way be blamed on whichever business was purchased from. People will attempt to argue methods of stealth shipping and claim one better than another but no seed vendor of any type who ships to countries where seeds are illegal has a 100% success rate for their stealth shipping making it through Customs. They have all had orders seized at some time or another. In some cases arguments about customer service can be made but then there are two things that have to be considered. One is that normally someone claiming good customer service is basing their opinion on their personal experiences and less, or not at all, on that of others and their complaints about another seed vendors customer service on what others have claimed, and it is a known fact that not all claims we see on sites like this are honest. Another thing to consider is what are the actual percentage of customers who have a valid, or valid enough sounding complaint about any seed vendors customer service and not the total number itself. If two seed vendors have just 1% of their customer base unhappy with their customer service than a seed vendor that sells to, say, 500,000 customers per year will have more complaints than another seed vendor who sells to 10,000 customers a year. Percentage-wise both could be equal in satisfied and dissatisfied customers but due to the large difference in numbers of sales one will have more complaints than the other. Complaints of non-viable seeds cannot logically be made between a seedbank and a breeder direct seed business. The seedbank does not produce the products they sell so they are not the ones who are responsible if non-viable seeds are packaged and sold to them for resale, the fault, the responsibility would be that of the breeder who made the seeds and who first sold them to the seedbank or to a seed wholesaler who then sold them to a seedbank, while a breeder direct sales business would be totally responsible for any non-viable seeds sold.

Now and then there is the fallacious argument presented about someone receiving an improper order or partially or fully non-viable seeds or had growing problems who then calls or emails a seedbank and they will not talk to them due to the laws of the nation they operate in making doing so a criminal act and something that could get them closed down. Most seed buyers are irrational and think the business should ignore such laws and risk their business and break their own company policy to talk with them about such things in plain language. That is absurd and anyone who complains about it is absurd. Any seed vendor in such a nation has it right on their website saying they cannot openly discuss such matters and if someone purchases from them and has a problem they have to accept that unless they are capable of talking about their problem in a round about way rather than a direct way they will not be spoken to, they will not be helped. But if you chose your words correctly you can say what is needed to be said in a way where you will be helped. Lack of cleverness of phraseology on the part of seed buyers is not the fault of any seed vendor.

Now and then someone will say this breeder's line or that breeder's line is the best they have ever found, the best they have ever grown, but they fail to mention that they are on their third or fifth grow, or just into their third or fourth year of growing and like so many started out purchasing low priced seeds that come from lower quality breeders and whatever breeder and their line they are proclaiming to be the very best is only the first skilled breeder whose gear they tried and likely they have only tried a small percentage of that breeder's line. They lack a broad comparative base on which to base their opinion. They stepped up from a K.C. Brains or Green House Seeds line to one single line of a truly skilled breeder with a quality line and because what they purchase will be so much better they will be impressed, but to say that breeder is the best is absurd unless they have also tried all others in the same class or who might actually be a class above them. With well over 100 breeders and over 3,000 known strains it takes years and years of trying every top notch breeder's line to build a comparative base that is even half accurate.

I have seen mid and low quality breeders and their lines, or at least some strain or strains from them, claimed to be the greatest. Normally that sort of claim will come from someone who until fairly recently has only purchased and smoked commercial, and not the highest grades of it, who then purchased some low to mid grade professional genetics, had a successful grow and it knocked their socks off, compared to what they were used to it was 'The Holy Grail' so they proclaim the breeder and the strain or strains too be the best ever. Again a lack of a broad comparative base to base their statement on. Other times it can be a breeder or an employee or friend of a breeder who is just trying to get some free advertising on sites like this and drum up business by making false claims. The same occurs with false complaints about breeders and seedbanks/seed vendors. Another case, though not exactly the same, is where a true problem did occur with some seedbank/seed vendor but the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is known by very few people and all the rest fill in the blanks with what they wrongly assume to have been the case and wrongly assume intentional misrepresentation or fraud existed, that it did in fact occur and one person says it and then one after another parrot it until the misinformation, the urban legend, takes on an air of fact and becomes believed to be true.

The comparing of breeder lines is seldom if ever accurately done. Not only are total numbers of strains often ignored but also the impact on the growing world, the broad worldwide success that some strains, or almost entire breeder lines have had on the growing/smoking world is ignored. Accurate comparisons of selections offered are seldom made because so many of today's puppies consider there to be only two types of strains, sativa and indica and to ehem every strain falls into one or the other category. They ignore the fact that there are sativa strains and there are indica strains and the rest or crosses of sativa and indica that are predominantly one or the other but regardless of how highly predominant in sativa or indica one might be it is still not one or the other and is instead a cross. When someone is looking for a 100% sativa or a 100% indica and a breeder does not offer any then it is irrelevant how skilled the breeder may be and how high of quality what they offer may be to that buyer because there is absolutely nothing in that breeder's line that will fully give them what they like, want and in some cases, if for medicinal reasons, actually need. That means that breeder's line is totally useless to them even if every stain in the line happened to be of the highest quality to someone else who is looking for such strains.

The argument of cost, or price for a given strain or strains often times comes up. Well if someone like, wants, possibly needs, or just flat out prefers some certain strain that costs twice as much as a quality strain or strains from some other breeder it is a better value for that customer to pay the additional amount than to pay less and grow and smoke something that might very well be very good but that is not and never will be what they like the most, want the most, possibly need the most, and prefer the most. So in many cases even a value for your dollar argument is a fallacious one and can only appear on the surface to be a valid argument by excluding what others see as the best value for their dollar.

There is no singular across the board best when it comes to seedbanks or breeder direct seed vendor or breeders or strains. There is only each individuals own perception and anyone who actually believes they can reduce any of those things down to one single actual best for all is irrational. They are only fooling themselves, or are absolutely and totally arrogant, if they actually believe that what they perceive as being the best or the best value can only be, should be or has to be seen by all others as also being the best.

PeteSwitch said:

Put in an order with Sannie's on Friday 02/18/11 & an order with Attitude on Saturday 02/19/11. So far I have gotten 2 e-mails from Attitude giving me a status that my order has dispatched (wtf that means I don't know) & nothing from Sannie's. I'm sure Sannie's takes the weekends o ff so I should be getting something as far as status goes on Monday. I can give an update on the status of my order if anyone is interested to find out who sends me my seeds faster etc?

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Sannie's Seeds arrived 02/28/2011! 5 free seeds of The Mask with my order of just 10 seeds of Sannie's Jack F6. The Tude sent me an e-mail that they shipped my beans on 02/21 and The Royal Postal Mail shows they handed it off to the USPS but USPS says they were notified & nothing past that... Still hoping the Tude comes through here but so far Sannie's is my #1 choice right now.

PeteSwitch said:

Sannie's Seeds arrived 02/28/2011! 5 free seeds of The Mask with my order of just 10 seeds of Sannie's Jack F6. The Tude sent me an e-mail that they shipped my beans on 02/21 and The Royal Postal Mail shows they handed it off to the USPS but USPS says they were notified & nothing past that... Still hoping the Tude comes through here but so far Sannie's is my #1 choice right now.

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Only put so much faith in the accuracy of and how up to date, up to the minute the USPS tracking system is. I have had beans popped that according to the tracking system were still in route to me. I once purchased a Dagga pipe from a small shop in the Vancouver area and was smoking from it while reading that it just cleared Custom and was on the way to it's first stop across country, and other times the information was perfect almost right down to the minute ... so I do not think you can really rely in it's accuracy. Sometimes is it spot on and other times the only way it could be any more inaccurate is if it could not bring up any information on a package at all.

Hopefully for you things will be fine but how ever things go you have to remember that once shipped any delays or problems are not the fault of any seedbank or breeder direct sales business. If you have two postal systems, a Customs department, a number of stops/transfers along the way and a whole lot of miles between you and where you purchased from things can happen and while in route a seedbank or dealer direct sales business has no control over anything that happens.