Sea Soil and Gaia Green Living Soil?

Any one use these? I'm bringing in some organic lines Earth Juice/Gia Green/Welcome Harvest/Dominion Organics but there's not much of a selection for organic soil/blend mixes around. Fox Farm can't be bothered to get their certified for Canada (use to sell it about 8 years ago) and only ones I found are Sea Soil and Gaia Green Living Soil Blend.

Id love to try it, bought a book recently "living organics" something i flip through the odd time. Id definately do it in a greenhouse but ive been warned about bugs with this type of soil.

bigmanc said:

Id love to try it, bought a book recently "living organics" something i flip through the odd time. Id definately do it in a greenhouse but ive been warned about bugs with this type of soil.

Click to expand...

Yes bugs are really bad. I tried the true living organics and had fungus gnats like crazy

How did you find the feeding? no nutes necessary? optional flush? yield vs salts?

The bugs will be an issue. I know when I use to carry the soil from Micro Maxx http://micromaxx.ca/specialtysoil/ they would add BTI to their soil. Never really took off on the coast but was a popular soil around Kelowna where its made.

bigmanc said:

How did you find the feeding? no nutes necessary? optional flush? yield vs salts?

Click to expand...

I have that book like u have. I made the teas. Then watered them with it. Also sprayed with it as well my friend would cook the soil and we would trade off. I find organics don't yield as much as synthetic nutes. You never know unless u try for yourself though. That's how I think. Mind you was a lot cheaper to buy all the ingredients for the teas. But was also a lot of work

a solid way to grow if you nail the recipe properly.
subcools works ok, I do it similar, if you add the heat you make a 16 week soil. cut it 50% with reg soiless (sunshine4 ect) for sativas, 10 gal and watch it work like a dream.
molasses and water biweekly and Epsom salt foiler every 4w no teas required, not for small plants, 2month & older
and I don't use any animal shat all organic/veganic
I posted a list of basic mixes for none exp growers. real easy, no ph tests or ppm
its organic.
ohhh yea, don't throw soil out, just re add all amendments and cycle through again,

Canada has a azomite dealer in b.c now also to buy it. 50lb bags or smaller 1 gal. go the larger route, way cheaper, rock dust is 25$-50lb, worm casting is $40-60 30lb, alfalfa is 20-50lbs, and on and on
Thank to w0nk0thesane of Breedbay for making this list

LC's method:

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Canadian Spaghnam Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
...Check the link in my sig line below for cheap earthworm castings. Free shipping to the eastern USA.

Or, if you use Pro Mix or Sunshine Mix...
LC's Soiless Mix #2:
6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix (any flavor from #1 up)
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
If you use a 3 qt. saucepan as “parts” in the amounts given above, it equals about 1 cu. ft. of soiless mix and you can just dump in a cup of powdered dolomite lime.

Now for the plants organic food source

RECIPE #1
If you want to use organic nutes like blood, bone and kelp...
Dry Ferts:
1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.
Mix all the dry ferts into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it with Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the bone meal and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed. It'll also have time to get the humic acids in the Liquid Karma going and the dolomite lime will be better able to adjust the pH of a peat based mixture too.


RECIPE #2
If you want to use guano in your soil mix...

Bongaloids guano mix
1/3C hi N guano per gallon
1/2C hi Phos guano per gallon
1TBS Jersey greensand per gallon
1TBS Kelp meal per gallon


RECIPE #3 (My favorite)
If you want to use guano tea and kelp...

Guano Tea and Kelp:

Seedlings less than 1 month old nute tea mix-
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
1-cup earthworm castings/5 gallons of water every 3rd watering

Veg mix-
1/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
@ 1-cup mix/5 gallons of water every 3rd watering.

Flowering nute tea mix:
2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)
5 tbs. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
@ 2 cups/5 gallons of water EVERY watering.
You can use queen size knee high nylon stockings for tea bags. 3 pair for a dollar at the dollar store. Tell 'em you use them for paint strainers. Put the recommended tea in the stocking, tie a loop knot in it and hang it in your tea bucket. The tea should look like a mud puddle. Agitate the bag in the water vigorously. An aquarium pump and air stone will dissolve oxygen into the solution and keep the good bacteria (microherd) alive and thriving. Let it bubble a day or two before you use it. If you find you are making too much tea and having to throw it out, use 2 1/2 gallons of water and cut the nute amount by half.


RECIPE #4
Fish and Seaweed

For veg growth…
1 capful 5-1-1 Fish Emulsion
1 capful 0-0-1 Maxicrop liquid
1 gallon H2O

For flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-3-1 Fish/Seaweed
1 gallon H2O


RECIPE #5
And finally Pure Blend Pro...
Pure Blend Pro veg formula for hydro/soil and Pure Blend Pro flower formula for Soil. Simply use as directed on the label. It's a stand-alone fertilizer. That means, everything you need is already in there so don't let the guy at the hydro store try to sell you something more.


Growdoc’s Method:

Soil bed, bottom fed, no drainage, top dressed around light switchover

Soil:

100L compost- Plagron Royalty Mix
5L perlite
3L worm castings
120g dried blood meal
80g guano Peru
60g bone meal
40g lime
20g trace element
1 pinch beneficial bacteria

Feed:

7L warm water plus 500ml guano Peru plus 2 pinch beneficial bacteria, mature @ 25C for 2 months

Top dressing:

100L compost
5L worm castings
120g guano Peru
100g seaweed meal
100g bone meal
80g lime
30g trace element
1 pinch beneficial bacteria


Sicco’s Method:

20 plants in 5L pots, trimmed all through life to 1 cola, fed DEGRO in veg (Aldi, cheap, 7,5,5), riverclay available as geranium compost in spring, recommends Jorgkind Grond #6 from Aalsmeer, NL

Soil:

50L compost, inc 10% river clay (acts as a buffer)
25L perlite
20L worm castings
700g Dolokal
40g potassium phosphate

Feed:

20 times, 250ml per plant per watering, start feeding mix just before bloom
over 1st 4 weeks give 2/3 of total feed mix
5th and 6th weeks fed twice per week
last 4 weeks 2 feeds total

fed 20 times in total so 100L feed used

5L water
5g potassium nitrate
5g potassium phosphate
10g guano


shabang’s Method:

Homemade worm castings, avoid feeding worms high N and any strong flavours-garlic, onion, chilli, citrus. Worms will take on what fed so high P and K feeds are possible.

“Classic” mix:

40% worm castings
30% perlite
30% vermiculite

“Soil-less” mix:

3 part coco peat
1 part expanded clay/perlite
1-2 parts worm castings
2% alfalfa meal pellets
1 tablespoon domolic lime per litre

Casting tea:

A large spoon of castings in a nylon stocking in water with a dab of mollases/pinch sugar/spoon of yoghurt for microbes, aerate for 48-72 hrs then feed.

He admits to being lazy himself and just chucking the stocking in his reservoir once a week for auto-feed.

Another in his own words..
Hey man, I've gotten the mix down to the height of simplicity. Put on a good dust mask.

1 bag of fine dry castings, 25 pounds.
1 bag, 8 dry quarts, Scott's perlite
1 bag, 8 dry quarts, Scott's vermiculite
add in a liter to a liter and a half of dolomitic or agri lime and two to three liters of hydrated polymer crystals
Water and plant.

i've gradually changed my media too; no castings in my cloning mix, for better nutrient control and lower N levels. i now use a packaged "seed starting" mix (gen'ly just milled verm and peat) + perlite, watering and misting with a very mild fish emulsion(s)/ molasses/ EJcatalyst/ superthrive solution. i still use plenty of castings in my grow/flower pots, but <50%. base of pro-mix+castings, add organics and minerals. seems like where you've gone for less ingredients, i've gone for more. my dry mix has pro-mix, castings, perl & verm, pelletized fish, bat guanos, PSG, chicken manure, trace minerals, kelp, etc, plus the watered-in component, which includes numerous additional ferts and supplements (not using the mycorhizae, though). i've simplified my procedures but gone toward "diversity" in my mix. the caveat is, ideally this mix needs time to activate, though it works well enough "fresh". castings have the advantage of being already activated, which is why i keep them in there... did you see my description of the new Alaska product below? no mention of chlorine anywhere on the label plus humic acids from leonardite ore, woohoo. the kelp is the usual ascophylum nodosum.


Soma’s Method:

50/50 old/new soil, new soil only for little ones
Canna terra organic soil, adds coco peat, perlite and nutrients (unspecified)

Feed:

AN Iguana juice apparrently although sourced from soft secrets so handfull of salt with this one
Flowering boost with bat guano and wood ash, recommends adding trace elements with guano as high P uses them up
pH balances water to 7

Recommends Preventief for pest control, an enzyme preparation that kills small bugs but not ladybirds.


Bio Henkie’s Method:

Soil beds, 9 plants per sq m, 5% old soil re-used to carry over bacteria, soil matured for at least 3 months before planting- the longer the better, lets worms loose to aerate and fertilise

Soil:

10 ingredients, very vague
Phosphate-“living phosphate”, a granulate from Italy from fermented grape pulp, fast acting plus bone meal, slow acting
Potassium- vinasse, sugar beet remains plus others not specified
Worm castings
Bacterial strains
Compost

Comments from Bio Henkie:

Just-fertilised soil burns plants
Natural (rock?) phosphate does not dissolve readily in soils unless they are too acidic and contains a lot of cadmium which is poisonous and undesirable.
Recommends foliar feeding (carcinogens?) or root feeding with sea weed extract or guano over acidifying water for deficiencies and long flowering varieties
A&B fertilisers disturb biological life and do more harm than good

Red Lake Earth is similar to azomite, mined just north of kamloops, $13-20/50 lb bag. food grade. available from most feed stores in western Canada

worm castings are usually around $1/litre last time I looked, there's a place in Langley and also ogopogo worm farm near kelowna.

I ordered some azomite but only 2KG containers. There's no organic market here but its not that expensive to bring in 2KG boxes/bags from Welcome Harvest and Gaia Green. Decided to bring in both Sea Soil Original and Gaia Green soil although its kinda expensive. A 30L bag of worm casting I sell for $22.

"Red Lake Earth is similar to azomite"
no its not, azomite and rock dust are similar.
RLE is Diatomaceous, is a fossilized shell
azomite is trace minerals
broad spectrum of over 70 minerals and trace elements, distinct from any mineral deposit in the world. AZOMITE®
Rock dust, also known as rock powders, rock minerals, rock flour, soil remineralization, and mineral fines, consists of finely crushed rock, processed by natural or mechanical means, containing minerals and trace elements widely used in organic farming practices.

Azomite is actaully pretty expensive from what I saw. Diatomaceous is pretty cheap through. I'm trying to find some liquid hydro organics ferts but all that is available locally is Earth Juice which is not bad and GO Organics but it never really taken off here.

DT is more for top dressing for gnats and cleaning pools or personal use with the food grade type.
RE DT is clay based witch is none food grade and is only used for top dressing. human consumption DT has a bit of calcium in it and that's about all.
white beige food grade, brown clay is none food grade.
you cant compare DT with azomite, they are not the same

ok let's compare them then lol.

Red Lake Earth is indeed a broad spectrum mineral source. azomite is actually a clay based mineral. here's an analysis of both for proof.

RLE is actually 2/3 DE and 1/3 calcium bentonite clay.

http://www.redlakeearth.com/faq.html

Is Red Lake Earth Food Grade?

Red Lake Diatomaceous Earth products meet both food grade and feed grade specifications.

What does this mean?

Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth meets Food Chemical Codex Grade specifications and can be used as a filtering aid or processing aid in food, but cannot be in the end product for human consumption.

Currently Red Lake Diatomaceous Earth is registered only as a feed additive for the purpose of an anti-caking agent or pelleting aid in feed, not to exceed 2% an animal’s total diet.

Click to expand...

here's an azomite analysis for comparison

http://www.azomite.com/resources/coa.pdf

ya oh well, don't use none food grade DT! it is clay based! food grade is calcium based with no clay, I eat DT daily and studied it for 2 yrs I know wtf im talking about, ive also grown with it for 6 yrs,,,,,,
I DONT TOUCH RLE DT, not for human consumption. wtf would I put that on my plants?

Origin: USA
We carry Perma-Guard Diatomaceous Earth (aka Fossil shell flour) which comes from an extremely pure fresh water deposit of the diatom Aulacoseira from a deposit created in the Miocene epoch.Why is this diatom so special? Its shell is made of amorphous silica. Its shape and hardness are important to how it works. Its hardness keeps it from dissolving in liquid. The holes along the diatom's wall allow it to absorb moisture, hence its commonly use as an anti-caking agent.
The color of this DE is almost pure white and consists of 89% (and sometimes more) Silicon Dioxide plus 28 trace minerals which means more diatom surface area is available. More diatom area means greater absorptive capacity and more improvement in the mixability and flowability when used in animal feed. It does not swell nor absorb nutrients and thus poses no long term hazard when used as an anti-caking agent in animal's feed. Darker colored DE often contains an excess of a particular mineral such as iron or a high percentage of clay.
Fresh water versus salt water DE?
Fresh water deposits like in this DE, have a consistent diatom presence. Their fossilized shells have maintained their tubular shape. This shape and strength of the fossil shell is critical to its effectiveness. This deposit has 89 - 95% amorphous silica content and is also more consistent in its purity of other elements that have settled in it. A fresh water deposit is confined to the run off water of its surrounding environment. A fresh water deposit in the mountains, such as in this DE, formed when snow was pure and its run off provided the water source these diatoms lived in.
Salt water deposits contain a mix of types of diatoms of different shapes. Their fossilized shells are fragile and break easily. This renders them ineffective for our purposes. The salt water deposits are less predictable in their sediments.
What's the difference between amorphous and crystalline silica?
Amorphous silica is silica in its natural occurring state. It is a trace mineral every mammal on the planet needs to live. It becomes crystalline when it is exposed to extreme heat through volcanic activity or commercial manufacturing means. The type of DE used in swimming pool, and other, filtration systems is crystalline silica. Crystalline silica is extremely dangerous when inhaled or ingested. It is not biodegradable. Perma-Guard's DE contains less than one half of 1% of crystalline silica and is considered GRAS (generally regarded as safe).
DE for animal feed use:
Bird and animal feed may contain substances such as molasses that cause the particles to become "sticky" and clump. This can not only make the feed hard to pour but also promote mold. When DE is mixed in the feed (not to exceed 2% of the dry weight), it coats each particle, making it difficult for the particles to stick together. This allows the feed to "flow" better and its absorption ability protects it from mold. No mold means less wasted feed.
By separating the particles of feed, the animal's digestive enzymes are able to completely surround each particle. This may also allow for a more complete digestion.
DE for human consumption:
Perma-Guard's DE is listed by the Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI) which supports organic integrity by providing organic certifiers, growers, manufacturers, and suppliers an independent review of products intended for use in certified organic production, handling, and processing. It is also a product labeled Food Chemical Codex Grade (FCC) which refers to a compendium of standards used internationally to ensure the quality and purity of food ingredients.
Even though this suggests high quality standards and that DE is GRAS (generally regarded as safe), these terms do not guarantee that this product is safe or registered for human consumption.

rnr said:

wtf would I put that on my plants?

Click to expand...

because, azomite and RLE are interchangeable as high silica clay based full spectrum mineral amendments, only RLE is a BC product, much cheaper and more widely available in Canada. kinda the point I was trying to make by posting up the data. all in the spirit of helping our fellow growers out.

RLE is actually amorphous silica based, from one of the 2 clean DE mines, the other being the permaguard mine. it would not be considered food grade if it was a crystalline silica.

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Home - Product Info
AZOMITE ® Ore Certificate of Typical Analysis
ICP and Spark Source Mass Spectrometry
ppm unless shown as %
Aluminum 6.57% Hafnium 0.62 Ruthenium 0.01
Antimony 0.16 Holmium 0.60 Samarium 4.98
Arsenic 1.10 Hydrogen 0.38% Scandium 1.16
Barium 0.14% Indium 0.02 Selenium 0.29
Beryllium 0.51 Iodine 2.20 Silicon 30.68%
Bismuth 0.30 Iron 1.16% Silver 0.97
Boron 29.00 Lanthanum 21.05 Sodium 1.31%
Bromine 6.60 Lead 9.96 Strontium 66.34
Cadmium 0.07 Lithium 18.23 Sulfur 0.02
Calcium 2.84% Lutetium 0.30 Tantalum 1.30
Carbon 0.61% Magnesium 0.59% Tellurium 0.01
Cerium 41.27 Manganese 0.01% Terbium 0.51
Cesium 0.88 Mercury 0.02 Thallium 0.16
Chlorine 0.22% Molybdenum 0.23 Thorium 7.51
Chromium 3.82 Neodymium 33.61 Thulium 0.28
Cobalt 1.54 Nickel 1.66 Tin 0.98
Copper 2.85 Niobium 0.18 Titanium 0.14%
Dysprosium 2.95 Nitrogen 0.15% Tungsten 0.30
Erbium 1.73 Palladium 0.01 Uranium 0.58
Europium 1.03 Phosphorus 0.02% Vanadium 14.12
Fluorine 900.00 Potassium 4.19% Ytterbium 1.86
Gadolinium 3.60 Praseodymium 10.31 Yttrium 6.23
Gallium 3.01 Rhenium 0.01 Zinc 12.71
Germanium 0.09 Rhodium 0.00 Zirconium 24.68
Gold <0.2 Rubidium 24.41 Loss on incineration 8.06%
Guaranteed Minimum Analysis
Soluble Potassium
Calcium
Sodium
Magnesium
Soluble Magnesium
Soil Application Guidelines
AZOMITE® will not harm or burn plants. Apply directly or with compost, humus, manures, fertilizers, beneficial soil microbials. May be used in compost tea productions.
Field Crops Apply 75 –150 lbs. per acre initially followed by annual maintenance of 50 –100 lbs. per acre or according to needs based on soil quality.
Citrus/Fruit/Vines Apply annually to all trees on ground surface under the drip line at the rate of 1 to 5 pounds, depending on the tree size. (Refer to table above for more guidelines.) Double the application for decline or blight stricken trees. For grapes, apply 1⁄2 lb. to 1 lb. to the soil around each plant and lightly till into soil.
Flowers/Plants/Vegetables When preparing the soil, use AZOMITE® at the rate of 1 lb. per 10 sq. ft. If in rows, mix into the soil along the rows at rate of 1 lb. per 25 ft. of row. If bed is established, sprinkle around each plant. For houseplants, mix 1 teaspoon per 2-inch pot diameter with potting soil before planting. Give 1 teaspoon quarterly thereafter. For roses, apply 1/2lb. to 1 lb. to the soil around each plant and lightly till into soil.
Lawn/Turf Care For existing lawns, a 44 pound bag will cover 12,000 to 15,000 square feet. Apply up to 4 times per year. For new lawns, apply at a heavier rate and till into soil before planting seed or laying sod.
Ornamentals/Shrubs/Trees Apply annually to all trees on ground surface under the drip line. Recommended application for trees:
Tree Base Diameter < 10” - Rate 1 –5 lbs. Diameter 10” –20” - Rate 5 –15 lbs. Diameter > 20” - Rate 15 –40 lbs. Apply light coating from trunk to drip line. For ornamentals and shrubs, apply 1⁄2 lb. to 1 lb. to the soil around each plant and lightly till into soil.
Primary Trace Minerals and Rare Earth Elements in AZOMITE®
Rare Earth Elements
Typical analysis reports the presence of Lanthanum (La), Cerium (Ce) and Praseodymium (Pr) in AZOMITE® at 644 ppm
1. Confirmed in greenhouse and field conditions to increase crop yields up to 15% in some plant species,
particularly if moisture was limiting.
2. Rare Earth Elements may enhance nitrogen fixation by Azotobacter species
3. Rare Earth Elements may enhance absorption of ions by root hairs
4. Rare Earth Elements may enhance manganese and iron absorption
5. Rare Earth Elements may enhance Photosystems I & II efficiencies
6. Rare Earth Elements have enhanced abscissic acid production
7. Rare Earth Elements have been shown to help plants contend with stress
8. Rare Earth Elements may stimulate Mg-ATPase in photosynthesis
9. Rare Earth Elements enhance the Hill Rxt of Photosynthesis
10. Rare Earth Elements have inhibited fungal growth (Cercospora nicotianae)
Zinc (Zn) A typical analysis reports 64.3 ppm. Zinc is essential for many different enzyme systems in plants. Zinc is important for synthesizing nucleic acids. Zinc is utilized in metabolizing the hormone Auxin.

Boron (B) A typical analysis reports 29 ppm. Has a role in biosynthesis. Impacts metabolic pathways. Improves plasma membrane integrity. Impacts the uptake of sugar.
Copper (Cu) A typical analysis reports 13.5 ppm. Enzyme activator, notably nitrogen reductase, and for certain protein forming and Vitamin A forming enzymes; an essential part of photosynthesis.
Cobalt (Co) A typical analysis reports 22.3 ppm. Root nodule bacteria is required to fix nitrogen and therefore the presence or absence of Co has a direct bearing on legume plants. Enzyme activator, helps form vitamin B12; improves growth, water movement and photosynthesis; boll production in cotton.
Iodine (I) A typical analysis reports 3.2 ppm. Some chemical forms of iodine appear to stimulate various plants. For example iodate, not iodide, stimulates the growth of a wide range of plants.

Manganese (Mn) A typical analysis reports 200 ppm. Manganese is involved in activating several enzyme systems, photosynthesis and protein synthesis

Molybdenum (Mo) A typical analysis reports12.6 ppm. Necessary for nitrogen fixation. Used by the enzyme systems nitrogenase and nitrate reductase. Involved in nitrogen metabolism; similarly stimulates plant vigor. An important part of chlorophyll. Essential for iron and phosphate metabolism

Nickel (Ni) A typical analysis reports 2.6 ppm. The most recent element added to the essential trace element list. Pecans are among plants known to require Ni for fruit production.

Arsenic (As) A typical analysis reports 1.1 ppm. At very low concentrations, it has has been known to stimulate plant growth. At high concentrations it is toxic to plants.

Selenium (Se) A typical analysis reports 0.79 ppm. Selenium is essential for animals and for bacteria, including the nitrogen-fixing bacteria. Essentiality in higher plants is controversial.

Tin (Sn) A typical analysis reports 2.9 ppm. Inorganic tin is generally unavailable to plants, absorbed by root hairs and generally not redistributed elsewhere in the plant. Conclusive studies have not been made.

Vanadium (V) A typical analysis reports 7.8 ppm. Essential for the formation of chlorophyll in several forms of algae (lower plants). Its role in higher plants is not yet clear.

Tungsten (W) A typical analysis reports 26 ppm. Tungsten interacts with molybedum and at < 5 ppm W has been reported to have a positive impact on a variety of higher plants.[/URL]