Seedlings shriveled up after removing plastic/humidity cover?

bonytang

Active Member
What kind of temperatures are the seedlings experiencing within your setup? Maybe get a thermometer reading for us? If the temps are too cold w/ included dampness then that can definitely add extra odds against the survival of a seedling, maybe check there for underlying issues.

Are you planning on running a light timer after the seedlings grow for a day or 2, or are you planning on running them for 24/7 continually?
Thermometer placed on top of reservoir it reads at 79 but that's pretty much reading it when it's placed directly at the light (24hr a day and about 75-76 at night when the room is cooler). DWC temp though is at 75 now (daytime) and 68 (at night) under the same 24hr light - just 200watt total LED in here. Last grow I did 2 plants in here and kept them a bit bigger before movong them. Now with 4 trying to duplicate same outcome but in different time of year/etc..

Planning on getting them in 19/5hr cycle within a week or so since the clone in the left corner is in the same tent and she was transplanted a few days ago with no darknes still so she is stressing. Tried to time all the seeds same time with the clone transplant but since the memberberry died lastnight i'm being as careful as i can with these left, alaskan thunder, hawaiian ice, and sour strawberry diesel x doho. Sunset sherb clone is what i worked with just recently and she turned out pretty nice.

photos from last run // all sunset sherb except seed pic ARC + ARC middle plant.
 

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bonytang

Active Member
This is why you should root cuttings in water/DWC bucket. It's to much work and unstable method using rockwool cubes or whatever under a dome.
I tried the dome w/ DWC so humidity in here was just a shock to the cutting. The 2 that are left will only really make it if the humidity is stable which now it's not. Next cutting attempt i'll just try to fix that environment w/no other plants in there.
 

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
Hey thank you for the info @bonytang I appreciate your elaborate replies.

So you are planting the seeds directly into a peat pod/pellet? or is that some type of seed starting cube of some sort?

I'm wondering if the substrate that you are starting your seeds out in is too hot or maybe should be rinsed lightly before use, just to kind of add some sterilization to the substrate and maybe remove some of the residual tannins that have been left the from the factory an so forth.

Also are you running bubbling water directly under the seedling or are you just spray/hand watering until they germinate?

If you've got water running already while the seedling is popping from its shell, you may be incidentally providing an overly active climate for the seedling to germinate from, and if too much moisture is applied too soon the then the seedling will simply drown/suffocate from simply too much hydration, and inability to up keep with the elemental forces being applied to it.

I'm wondering myself if an ultrasonic mister would provide some benefit to this type of setup personally, as the earliest stages of root development can be greatly effected by outward forces applied, maybe a misting type of setup like this could help you while germinating then once the seedling take off a show some growth then gently place them into the larger grow containers as they developed into small plants?

I'm mostly a soil grow person myself, but I try and help out where I'm able, even with hydro he he he :leaf:.
 

bonytang

Active Member
Hey thank you for the info @bonytang I appreciate your elaborate replies.

So you are planting the seeds directly into a peat pod/pellet? or is that some type of seed starting cube of some sort?

I'm wondering if the substrate that you are starting your seeds out in is too hot or maybe should be rinsed lightly before use, just to kind of add some sterilization to the substrate and maybe remove some of the residual tannins that have been left the from the factory an so forth.

Also are you running bubbling water directly under the seedling or are you just spray/hand watering until they germinate?

If you've got water running already while the seedling is popping from its shell, you may be incidentally providing an overly active climate for the seedling to germinate from, and if too much moisture is applied too soon the then the seedling will simply drown/suffocate from simply too much hydration, and inability to up keep with the elemental forces being applied to it.

I'm wondering myself if an ultrasonic mister would provide some benefit to this type of setup personally, as the earliest stages of root development can be greatly effected by outward forces applied, maybe a misting type of setup like this could help you while germinating then once the seedling take off a show some growth then gently place them into the larger grow containers as they developed into small plants?

I'm mostly a soil grow person myself, but I try and help out where I'm able, even with hydro he he he :leaf:.
Thanks @mustbetribbin i've been doing hydro now for only a little over a year / half and my biggest frustration is keeping temps stable in both reservoir + tent throughout the year. What I've learned so far is that w/o water chiller or basement, DWC is difficult in the spring/summer months for personal home indoor grow. In fall winter i've had success which keeps me positive less today's seedling mishap.

For the water reservoirs i'm using BOTANICARE Silica Blast w/my nutrients: General Hydro + Advanced Nutrients supplements: ancient earth, microbial munch, wet betty, b52, + Cal-Mag + Humboldts Secret humic acid + golden tree. In flower stage it's a few more from advanced nutrients + some resin/terp nutes.

Reservoir levels are just below seed planted straight in rockwool, in the reservoir. For now they all have domes, and now since this AM the domes are vented. 2 of 3 are sprouting and memberberry replacement was germing as plan B for any mistakes so she was transplanted 1st thing i woke up. Now if these seedlings don't dry out after i remove the dome (with new vents) i'll be in good shape!

In a different time of year dome wouldn't be necessary but w/o humidifier or gibberellic acid in dryer months germing seeds have just been stagnant, from about 6 or so other tries in last 3 weeks w/no dome zero made it.

In photos below i use small clip on fans that helps dwc temps in hotter months, only 2 of the banana kush are what's left, the middle plant (Memberberry) was the one i took the cuts from & she just didn't mke it. I think it was nutrient lock so i tried CYCO UPTAKE to try and force feed but it didn't work. The CYCO REPAIR worked great though it totally saved the Banana Kush which is thriving 100% now.
 

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bonytang

Active Member
You really don't need a dome for seedlings. As long as the root is in a damp plug there's no reason for it to wilt. You're likely causing it to rot and wilt from being to wet and minimal air exchange.
100% @KryptoBud in the Spring or Summer I agree.. the next couple days i'm guessing to keep the dome and slowly introduce the seedling to relative humidity/tent environment but will probably try the VitaGrow Antiwilt from @Renfro
 

bonytang

Active Member
Had this dome of death situation with a transplanted clone. You remove the dome the shock of humidity change wilts,, you leave the dome on, the medium never dries out, dropping, wilting.

You have to slowly condition to lower humidity. Bigger dome, no misting let evaperation, transpiration add the humidity. and or add a little air hole to the dome will reduce the humidity slightly. Don't give them toomuch light or wind when out of the dome. Only for a few minutes at a time at first if the leaves go a bit limp replace dome fast.
Trying this, thanks everyone! I'll post pics + updates this week.
 

Wastei

Well-Known Member
I tried the dome w/ DWC so humidity in here was just a shock to the cutting. The 2 that are left will only really make it if the humidity is stable which now it's not. Next cutting attempt i'll just try to fix that environment w/no other plants in there.
Just use a DWC bucket without the dome next time. Mix some bloom plant food, a few drops a gallon is literally enough. A few drops of Clorox, I usually pour some bleach into the cup and put my fingertip and measure two drops, dipping the finger two times lol :eyesmoke: I used to root 16 cuttings a time under a 26w cfl, they need very little light to root.
 

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
Bravo Bravo @bonytang

I can only applaud you with this well thought out combination of nutrients and setup you are running, it all looks great to me so far.

Hey if it's not too much trouble, I was wondering if you could tell me where you got your lighting setup, or if you can tell me the brand and possibly be able to look at the exact spectrum you are utilising with this setup? we would be better able to figure out what part of the spectrum is still missing from the lighting that you are running, and if we figure this part out then we will be able to allow your plants to harvest more photons than they currently are, gauranteed, which means faster growing faster ripening plants also. The ends of the spectrum are linked together like a chain, when you leave integral links of that linked chain out, then your usable length of chain becomes shorter and your workload increases, while simultaneously increasing the resistance that is felt, all this can relate to the way a plant is effected by the lighting environment that we provide for it.

Nature provides us with the hidden guidance that we seek, if we keep a keen eye out for what ends of the spectrum a plant receives and at what stage it is received at, then we can begin to understand and utilize this in our grows, I can't say I've had any indication that this is the wrong way to go about growing in my own setup, I'd say lighting is just as equally important as all the other essential nutrients and elements that work in harmony to make plant life possible, by widening the spectrum I've only noticed improved results personally.

Anyways, good talking with you friend, I'll check back with you soon. Blazed:eyesmoke:
 

rob333

Well-Known Member
Hey guys long time no hello. Hoping someone can advise on how to prevent other seedlings from shriveling up. Planted directly in DWC reservoir, she sprouted a few days ago and have been keeping a plastic wrap over the net cup to keep humidity up during while germinating...she sprouted a few days ago and last night I removed the plastic and woke up to find her all shriveled up. The other seeds next to her are looking good with plastic covers still on them though how long do i need to keep them in high humidity or how do i prevent them from drying up after removing plastic? It's November & in a small grow tent with relative humidity about 35% ave.. seedlings kept under 24hr light + trying to keep up overall humidity so after i remove plastic covers they don't shrivel up..how long do i need to keep them in high humidity/under plastic and when i remove the plastic how can i prevent them from drying up?
why straight from seed into a dwc by week 2 -3 u are gunna have nothing but issues also i find a good 3 -4 weeks in a rock wool cube really gives them legs to grow
 

bonytang

Active Member
Bravo Bravo @bonytang

I can only applaud you with this well thought out combination of nutrients and setup you are running, it all looks great to me so far.

Hey if it's not too much trouble, I was wondering if you could tell me where you got your lighting setup, or if you can tell me the brand and possibly be able to look at the exact spectrum you are utilising with this setup? we would be better able to figure out what part of the spectrum is still missing from the lighting that you are running, and if we figure this part out then we will be able to allow your plants to harvest more photons than they currently are, gauranteed, which means faster growing faster ripening plants also. The ends of the spectrum are linked together like a chain, when you leave integral links of that linked chain out, then your usable length of chain becomes shorter and your workload increases, while simultaneously increasing the resistance that is felt, all this can relate to the way a plant is effected by the lighting environment that we provide for it.

Nature provides us with the hidden guidance that we seek, if we keep a keen eye out for what ends of the spectrum a plant receives and at what stage it is received at, then we can begin to understand and utilize this in our grows, I can't say I've had any indication that this is the wrong way to go about growing in my own setup, I'd say lighting is just as equally important as all the other essential nutrients and elements that work in harmony to make plant life possible, by widening the spectrum I've only noticed improved results personally.

Anyways, good talking with you friend, I'll check back with you soon. Blazed:eyesmoke:
I'm glad I came back on here + everyone's input means more than you guys know!

When I 1st came on this site I just moved to CO & tried DWC since I already had everything for the set-up as I'm in to aquarium keeping. All I needed was the genetics. For the past year I've been a budtender at a great place and have learned so much from my co-workers, customers, and especially trial + error including tips I got from here from my 1st run. Even before I came back here I've always recommended rollitup.org to all my customers that purcchase clones & seeds for help. Great info here no doubt! Being as spoiled as one could be on the front-line, I'm blessed to get beans from people that I respect and just want to be able to produce the best version I can from their cuts. Alien Genetics, Swamp Boys, local grow-ops & seed banks, and others have all been good friends + have been a great help for someone new as myself to both growing & just being in the "INDUSTRY??".

Regarding the nutes I've learned that different plants need different feeding schedules + feeding ratios. Generally my ARC's love to be starved and need to be brought to the brink of death every feed as she'll literally reject a normal week to week nutrient regimen. A lot of the cookie strains though are pretty standard and respond well to all nutrient schedules & dump crazy on hash/concentrate projects. I've tried introducing KUSHIE KUSH by advanced nutrients with a lot of different genetics and learned that this additive is incredibly powerful for OG strains, not to be used in terp strains like fruity genetics. NPK additive also helps when introducing plant from grow stage to flower stage, 1 week treatment allows plant to acclimate to new environment & feed.

For lighting I actually found a great source from IndoExpo and through that recommendation just use about 600w of // https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XZ29G31/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and the Roleadro 600w https://smile.amazon.com/Roleadro-Spectrum-Fixture-Hydroponics-Germination/dp/B00RWQ4B50/ref=sr_1_18?crid=1YA8EFK3EFEUI&keywords=roleadro+led+grow+light&qid=1573292220&s=lawn-garden&sprefix=roleadr,lawngarden,178&sr=1-18. During flower stage I introduce another 250w of red LED https://smile.amazon.com/HIGROW-Flowering-Fruiting-Spectrum-Enhancement/dp/B0744GY7TP?pf_rd_p=dd4f5b57-ba5b-418b-a348-64ec62df14cc&pd_rd_wg=hQMyS&pf_rd_r=MDGZFR2G7PZQAE01Q4A0&ref_=pd_gw_cr_simh&pd_rd_w=dsrOT&pd_rd_r=a5376089-84af-4c16-a411-b12fefb026d8. Seedlings use same brand just get 50w each, and in the small tent, 200w total is plenty no matter if there is 1 or little 4 plants.

Everyone's support has been great + as long as I can produce quality flower for me & my friends, on a conservative scale, I'M STOKED!! :hug:


why straight from seed into a dwc by week 2 -3 u are gunna have nothing but issues also i find a good 3 -4 weeks in a rock wool cube really gives them legs to grow
Hi @rob333 I've been transplanting in DWC since day 1 grow and prefer this way as it takes out the acclimation process in transplanting from aeroponics than to reservoir...since aeropnic kit & reservoir the same thing, no need to transplant if i can get same results straight from reservoir. Only tricky thing is keeping close eye on water levels 1st few days.

The clones I get are rockwool'd and yep they transplant fairly ok most of the time, but if i'm growing myself from seed, it's just easier to do it straight from the res w/o any worry in transplant stress. Pls see photo here, this is a little baby net cup, sometimes I'll even put this baby net cup straight in the 5gallon net cup to give them even more room - it's like re-transplanting w/o the stress of actual transplanting since i never remove the rockwool cube from hydroton....just put the whole little thing in there and it just grows out like normal.

When I do plant from seed, usually just use regular pH'd rockwool though now use RapidRooter + Gibberillic Acid lucky charm.
 

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mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
Hey again @bonytang , thank you for your patience, I've had a rather busy last 24hrs but have been wanting to come answer this question for you as soon as I was able to sit down again.

Also thank you for that information and for letting us know a bit about your situation and letting us sense your excitement, and I am excited for you as well, I'd like to see what we are able to help you with in the near future and get this ball really rolling for you.

One quick question I have for you is, on the roleadro light or any light that that you are using with added UV diodes, did you remove the glass from the light fixture? If there is a way to, and if you havent, you'll want to figure out a way to get that removed from the light so that the UV light can penetrate into the leaf canopy, because glass blocks/shields UV light to a great extent, only a tiny percent is able to escape the glass and will probably cause the light fixture to run warmer than it should (I've got a uvb blurple light myself, and it def made a difference on mine).

So here recently in the last 2 years or so, the entire blurple light industry has been undergoing a transition/overhaul of what was once projected to be new plant lighting science and revolutionize the way we think plants absorb light, remember about a decade ago all that nonsense about plants only able to absorb and utilize certain parts of the spectrum most efficiently, and that blue and red light were like this newly found understanding of how plants grow and all that BS?

Well that turned out to be faulty scientific evidence that an entire industry backed up and then later reinforced with millions of light fixtures based on a misinterpreted understanding of the real science behind photosynthesis and how plants harvest the light that they are given.

What was lacking in the research that the scientists behind this put forth was the fact that photosynthesis isn't the only crucial portion of a plants growth in regards to lighting that was important, why? Because chlorophyll aren't the only cells found within a plants leaves that are able to harvest light, there are other synthesized proteins and molecules found within plant leaves/buds and stems that are able to harvest light, so you aren't only supporting the necessities of the plant itself, you are also supporting a network of cells and proteins that work in harmony to allow for the plant to harvest all forms of light more efficiently.

What myth was also included in this faulty science? The disproven notion that plants don't need green light and that plants reflect green light away because of the chlorophyll and the green in the leaves...... sounds pretty dumb doesn't it?

So what we are needing to help put into balance is how do we add lighting to your existing setup to help bring the spectrum back into a wide and robust range of the spectrum that is missing from the light fixtures that are currently being used.

When you look at any blurple light, you notice mostly pink: more reds than blue diodes typically being the reason, the problem is when the manufacturers mount all the diodes to the same fixture, they forget the age old rule of how light travels and how different wavelengths of light require different necessities to use them optimally, why? Because... well hey...plants say so, they can't just warp around how they are designed to absorb/harvest light just to accommodate to our liking, the processes that a plant changes through as it grows are set in stone, we accommodate to the plant and the supporting science behind it, not the other way around. (Blue and red diodes don't belong on the same fixture, unless blue can be dimmed separately, because it is one of the most reactive/radiant colors within the specrum, besides violet)

(Sorry I hope I don't sound like I'm ranting, I'm just trying to elaborate on my understanding of it and how I feel about it personally to some extent).

So with this being said, when we do add extra lighting to your existing setup we will have to raise your blurple lights a bit further away from the leaves that they are currently because the light spectrum that they are receiving now is going to be overlayed with extra photons in certain areas of the spectrum with possible peak light points within spectrum that may overwhelm the leaves if too much immersion on one area of the spectrum is received in various levels/portions of the light that the leaves collect.

What is missing from almost any blurple type of light? well it's quite easy to see really, green/yellow/orange/far red/NIR, the ones with the white diodes do cover a small portion of the extra spectrum that the red/blue lights are emitting but it really isn't enough to really give the plants enough photons for it to really take off.

This is where fluorescent lighting like T5's can be of benefit, they do offer relatively wide amount of spectrum from the various phosphor dust coating that they add to the insides of the bulb, while not very intense light the spectrum is there, and some UV light is released, even if they aren't reptile or horticultural UV bulbs. (UVA & UVB both increase/enhance photosynthesis)

If you want to stick with LED technology, I'd would probably look at something from HLG in the 4000k range, it would add much of the spectrum that is missing from the blurple you are currently using, I've heard good things about 4000k spectrum temp LEDs for both flower and veg, for flower just add a bit of red light to the mixture, kind of like you already are with the deep red bulbs that you have listed above. One thing I will also include in speaking of this exact spectrum, it also seems to work well for the CMH guys and in fluorescent bulbs also, 4000k is like a really bright cloudy day type of light, seems indoor plants really dig this spectrum range... even in flower.

LED lights run a bit cool also, and you could run the room a bit warmer if you wanted to by adding a heater, but if you want to know what I'm currently using in my setup is I've got a 40watt incandescent bulb running on each end, on the sides of the room closest to the incandescent bulbs are I've got the largest leaves coming out, also a deep dark green color on the leaves closest to the incandescent, this is because I'm harvesting far red/NIR/ IR light from the incandescent, and it may sound silly, but incandescent bulbs are just about the #1 source for IR on the cheap without having to get fancy, and plants don't need heavy doses of IR light anyhow, I'm going to run mine on a 6hr timer come next flower time, about 2 weeks from now I'll be starting a new flip/flower period in my own setup.

If you want dense/thick leaves, large leaves, and increased photosynthesis then you will want NIR(near infrared) and IR, and not just on the top of the plant either, plants benefit from these types of additional lighting from more of a side angle that penetrates to the stem of the plant and interior/inner leaves, you'll get healthier side growth this way and thicker stems also, especially if you supercrop right as the new branches begin to extend, just be cautious if you supercrop too often the tip that has the new growth can begin to have more tendency to weaken or snap as time goes on, best to have patience if you supercrop often.

All these points hint to the reasons why HID light often grow nice healthy buds and dense canopy, but what we have to figure out is how to utilise this into our grow rooms with newer LED tech, and I've found that LED tech has not developed quick enough to even keep up with an incandescent bulb in the NIR/IR regions of the spectrum, so I don't really recommend these forms of technology right away, that is until I see hard evidence otherwise, LED tech is just too narrow to capture and satisfy every photon need that plants currently get from other wider spectrum bulbs types incandescent & HID, LED is catching up but so far where led shines is within the visible spectrum and even then it takes nice blend of diodes types to even come anywhere near to real daylight/sunlight full spectrum that proves itself on a spectrum graph.

So there is a lot to be said, no short answer on this one, but if I were you I'd maybe stick with the LED tech you already have, add some form of extra white LEDs to your setup in the 3500-5000k range that have a decent reading on a graph that shows higher levels of the Blue/green/yellow/orange that you aren't getting with the blurples in high enough levels, just remember too much blue like 6500k for example will need more clearance above the canopy than say the 4000k diodes would need, because of higher energy/photon output per second etc.

I'd add some fluorescent, and if you aren't going with any form of HID, go ahead and get a couple-few incandescent bulbs in there as well, it really won't hurt nothing and if you need a bit of extra warmth in the tent, incandescent handles that job nicely while lights are on.

Anyhow that's about all I can think to mention for now, and I do appreciate you for taking the time to read this message, thank you friend, and have a good one til next time around. Piece out yall:eyesmoke::cool:
 
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