Shootings this past week

lol if yall think thats alot of shootings u should watch the 9 o clock fox chicago news lol... everything from baby found dead in dumpster.. gang wars, 100 gang members areested by dea on south or west side.. blah blah blah.... and then they bust out the local weather.. which at times is even worse then all the killing.. lol

And yes i know my previous post was poorly written. I am upset by some of the stupid things being said, and of the simple minded people saying them. while I do agree that it was a terrible tragedy, banning guns is NOT the answer. It will only replace one problem with another. Gun management and keeping them out of the hands of minors and the mentally ill is the correct action to better our society. While gun issues are a problem, they are a small one compared to alcohol and prescription drugs deaths. So instead of blaming the firearms themselves please try to focus on the real problem at hand. Poor parenting combined with lack of education and common sense is the real problem before us all. I do not personally own a firearm but if I do I will take measures to ensure that my teenage children do not have access to them. I do realize some measures such as gun safes are expensive(and very effective), but there are also many inexpensive options such as trigger locks (also very effective) that will render the weapon useless to anyone who shouldnt have access to it. I can buy trigger locks locally for 8 dollars and i would not purchase a firearm without a way to secure it, so that it coulnt be used by anyone who shouldnt have access to it. Make no mistake, I am upset about this as anyone is. But I am not upset that she purcased a firearm to protect herself and her family. I am upset that she purchased a 1000 dollar fire arm and didnt purchase an 8 dollar lock that could have prevented all this. Everyone needs to stop pointing fingers and blaming guns and everything else, and focus on the real issues at hand. We can change our future without being defenseless, with responsible parenting, firearm education and good old fashioned common sense.

Lets pretend for a momment you could ban guns, reduce guns, or make gun laws that actually work, even though there is still more guns than people in America, lets just take this a step further and pretend that all the guns would just go away no matter how utterly ridiculous that is, let just pretend that the government is so powerfull it can bend reality, that it gives a fuck about us, etc....even in this fantasy....people are still going to kill people if they intend to do so..end of story....so what the fuck are you people even arguing about? Such a stupid asinine argument, its time you guys wake up and realize you have been brainwashed by the media.

Further in this fantasy world how would we now defend ourselves from people with guns? Whats to stop corrupt police officers from just going around doing home invasions or another country from invading from within?

FlyLikeAnEagle said:

It appears you would like a forum that no one posts anything except you and your right wing buddies otherwise you're offended.

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Can you prove that? I am always open to reasoned argument. But guns = bad! is emotion. cn

cannabineer said:

...the ratio of deaths or injuries prevented by gun owners very probably is a multiple of the deaths you've listed ...

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you're more likely to shoot a family member or loved one than an intruder, that ratio exists. not sure how many multiples it is.

FlyLikeAnEagle said:

It appears you would like a forum that no one posts anything except you and your right wing buddies otherwise you're offended.

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cannabineer is a centrist. radically so, he's in the center. although he is a huge defender of gun rights, much like a "right winger" might be. just more articulate.

cannabineer said:

Emphatically no. You are not "merely introducing facts". You are presenting only one side without annotation, allowing you to blandly present the fiction of "merely introducing facts". You are concealing powerful judgment in that apparent "mere introduction".

You confirmed it by calling those who believe in their right to armed defense the Wrong Side. There is your moral judgment made plain, and I reject it. cn

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you clearly believe in more than simply "the right to armed defense". you seem to include in your definition of gun rights the right to overthrow a "rogue government", which would seem to exclude simple self defense.

armed defense is not Wrong, weapons of war for civilians without limits or guidelines is Wrong. no amendment is unabridged, no right is absolute or unchanging over time.

there needs to be certain limits, and your "more, more, MOOOAAAARRRRR" argument does not apply when discussing the reasonable controls we put on "weapons of war" versus weapons of "armed defense" and other legitimate purposes of gun ownership and usage.

Total Head said:

what's interesting to me is that according to this table, roughly HALF of "gun deaths" are self inflicted. furthermore, using the age range of 25-34, yes, you can see that there were 3,331 gun homicides and 2,594 gun suicides. for that same age group there were a whopping 6,767 accidental poisoning deaths. this means that more people in that age group were poisoned to death than murdered by gun and committed suicide by gun COMBINED.

the end.

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accidental poisoning versus intentional poisoning. compare that to accidental gun deaths and intentional gun deaths. do so ver the entire population and tell me what you get.

if you're worried about people committing too much suicide rather than offing 20 kindergarteners, then limit people to one bullet at a time.

problem solved.

cannabineer said:

Can you prove that? I am always open to reasoned argument. But guns = bad! is emotion. cn

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you don't have much room to speak, you're actually in the opposite camp for a change. goddamn centrist.

corvetteguy,

What makes you "mentally ill?" Who decides? How do you make it fair? How do you suggest we make the mental illness test?

Canna Sylvan said:

corvetteguy,

What makes you "mentally ill?" Who decides? How do you make it fair? How do you suggest we make the mental illness test?

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oh, and the mental illness blame game in this case is utter bullshit. my wife informed me of this today at length while on the road.

aspberger's won't even be recognized in the next release of the DSM (DSM-V). it will be ranked somewhere in the autism spectrum. there is nothing about that spectrum, or autism in general, that makes one likely to be a mass murderer.

although i wouldn't be opposed to mandating a mental health evaluation from a competent individual as a barrier to owning a firearm. hell, more business for my wife's profession.

Canna Sylvan said:

corvetteguy,

What makes you "mentally ill?" Who decides? How do you make it fair? How do you suggest we make the mental illness test?

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the "mental illness test" already exists.

in the US (all of it, all 50 states, the district of columbia, puerto rico and all other territories and protectorates, including uninhabited guano islands) if you have EVER been adjudicated insane or committed to a mental health facility BY THE COURTS you are prohibited from owning, possessing using or buying any gun.

thaty's one of the "common sense reasonable measures" established in 1968. gun owners and 2nd amendment defenders arent worried about that one, cuz it in fat DOES make sense, and is quite reasonable. nobody but crazy people want crazy people to have guns.

if you have never been sent to the looney bin by a judge you aint crazy. even if your doctors all say you are, and the voices in your head agree.

UncleBuck said:

accidental poisoning versus intentional poisoning. compare that to accidental gun deaths and intentional gun deaths. do so ver the entire population and tell me what you get.

if you're worried about people committing too much suicide rather than offing 20 kindergarteners, then limit people to one bullet at a time.

problem solved.

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from the same chart/ALL ages:

accidental firearm deaths: 606

intentional firearm deaths (homicide):11,078

intentional firearm deaths (suicide): 19,392

intentional poisoning deaths (homicide) 79

accidental poisoning deaths: 33,041


what's important to notice is that in order for me to even find these stats i had to expand the table to the top 16 causes of death because homicide is the 16th most common cause of death when you look at all age groups. the bulk of homicide deaths (by any method) come from males in the age range of 15-34, which also happens to be the same age range that a young man is most likely to be involved in gang activity, crime, and black market drugs. it gets even murkier when you divide the homicides by race and geography (i'll leave that to someone else. i'm not going down that road here).

the point is that we need to interpret the data meaningfully, not cherry pick random stats to prop up the agenda du jour. if the problem is greater in a certain age group, geographic location, etc., we need to sort that stuff out before we go willy-nilly making laws that don't address the actual problems we're seeing. a knee-jerk reaction to a few spree killers is not going to address the real issues with our crime stats. our gun stats aren't high because of a handful of loony spree killers, our gun stats are high because we don't address the shitstorm of social problems we have in this country until something heinous happens to give the media a boner. if you only listened to the media, you'd never think poison killed even half as many people as guns, intentional or otherwise. where are the news stories? why isn't clorox being sued?

getting people riled is what the media does best. well rounded analysis isn't really their thing.

In that same week how many have died from starvation,auto accidents and many other hazzards in life?

Mindmelted said:

In that same week how many have died from starvation,auto accidents and many other hazzards in life?

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Many, but the psychology is different. Nobody but a few thousand stubborn bicyclists in the Northwest doubts the social utility, even necessity, of a car. Starvation and "other hazards" are generally considered in the "poo happens" category. In the case of violence involving guns however, the gun is a necessary component. "So remove the gun" is a very easy answer at which to arrive, and at first blush seems reasonable. Only by viewing the problem in its social, political and historic context can the oh-so reasonable conclusion be seen to be ... not simple at all, but remarkably complex.

But we who speak up for gun rights still have the basic PR problem. Vaguely half the voters see removing guns as, if not the answer, then something worth trying. It is them we need to try to convince. if we cannot do so, we will soon have lost our rights to own, operate and carry the sort of gun that is a defender's obvious choice ... very probably for keeps. The Ratchet has only been observed to tighten. And the fascination of the media with spree shooters tells you what opinion they prefer and are cultivating. cn

Dr Kynes said:

the "mental illness test" already exists.

in the US (all of it, all 50 states, the district of columbia, puerto rico and all other territories and protectorates, including uninhabited guano islands) if you have EVER been adjudicated insane or committed to a mental health facility BY THE COURTS you are prohibited from owning, possessing using or buying any gun.

thaty's one of the "common sense reasonable measures" established in 1968. gun owners and 2nd amendment defenders arent worried about that one, cuz it in fat DOES make sense, and is quite reasonable. nobody but crazy people want crazy people to have guns.

if you have never been sent to the looney bin by a judge you aint crazy. even if your doctors all say you are, and the voices in your head agree.

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I hope you're doing a bad troll.

Anyone can be declared insane. If it could be proven you're the one who wrote some of the crazy shit you write here, medicated, it'd be no contest.

A wife hates you. Wants to fuck you over. If you have kids together, she can, with enough money and a feminist lawyer (like Bucky), get you committed for the loco weed.

It's much harder to prove sanity, than to accuse you of insanity. Even if they find out your wife lied and was the insane one, you're fucked. You can't cure crazy, even accused kind.

BadDog40 said:

Wife, Teen, Himself… Man Shoots, Kills Own Son… Cops Shoot Teen Dead…Man Gunned Down In Parking Lot… 5 Dead In Spate Of Shootings… 2 Murdered In Philly… 2 Kansas Cops Shot Dead… Shooter Killed… 4 Die In Apparent Murder-Suicide… Ga. Cop Dies From Gunshot… Argument Leads Teen To Shoot Friend… Man Shot To Death… Teen Dies After Being Tied Up, Shot… Man Shot Dead In Street… Drug Deal Leads To Shooting Death… Mother Of 2 Killed In Road Rage Shooting… Man Shoots, Kills Intruder… 1 Killed In Coney Island…Man Dies From Gunshot Wounds… Cops Investigate Gun Death… Shooting Victim’s Body Found On Bike Trail… Man Charged With Shooting Own Brother Dead… Man Dies After Being Shot In Chest… Body Of Shooting Victim Found In Pickup… Teen Arrested For Robbery Shooting Death… Man Carrying 2-Year-Old Son Shot Dead… Man Fatally Shot Near Home… Parolee Dies In Shooting… 1 Killed In Buffalo Shooting… Man Shot Dead In Apartment Complex… Street Gun Battle Kills Grandma Bystander… Man, Woman Dead In Apparent Murder-Suicide… Woman Shot Dead By Intruder… 14-Year-Old Arrested Over Fatal Gun Attack… Man Found Shot Dead In Parking Lot… Woman Shot In Face By Ex-Boyfriend… 1 Woman, 3 Men Shot Dead… 2 Die In Attempted Robbery… Army Reservist Shot To Death In Alley… Man Shot To Death In Bodega… 2 Shot Dead In Burned House… Man Shot During Break-In… Man Fatally Shot… 20-Year-Old Gunned Down… Man Shoots Self During Police Pursuit… 1 Killed In Baltimore Shooting… Cops ID Shooting Victim… 60-Year-Old Man Shot Dead… Shot Man’s Body Found In Vacant House…. Woman Shot And Killed Outside Her Home…Shooting Victim Was ‘Trying To Turn Life Around’… Slain Shooting Victim Found In Street…. Driving Altercation Leads To Shooting, 1 Dies… 3-Year-Old Dies In Accidental Shooting… Man Turns Self In After Allegedly Shooting Wife… Man Shot Dead Outside Home… 3 Slain In Separate New Orleans Shootings… Cops Investigate Shooting Death… Man Shot Dead In Ohio… Teen Shot To Death… Man Dies After Being Shot Multiple Times… Man Charged Over Son’s Shooting Death… Cops Find 2 Men Shot Dead… 1 Dies In Shooting… Man Charged Over Gun Killing… 1 Shot Dead In Confrontation… Man Charged With Murder Over Shooting… Motel-Owner Shot And Killed… Husband Shoots Estranged Wife Dead… Suspect Arrested Over Deputy’s Shooting Death… Police Probe Fatal Shooting… Cops Kill 2 Suspects In 3 Shooting Deaths… Man Killed Fighting Back Against Robber… Man Killed In Home Invasion…. Nightclub Shooting Kills 1… Child Brain Dead After Drive By Shooting… Man Charged Over Shooting Of Ex-Wife… Body Found In Vacant House… Teen Fatally Shot…

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And then what happened?

BadDog40 said:

I am merely introducing facts, sorry if that somehow correlates to me insulting your morality. I realize it is much easier to stick ones head in the sand when one is on the wrong side of an issue that causes death to so many, maybe you would feel better with no media?

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Turkey banned guns for the Armenians. Slaughtered 10 million.

Mao banned guns for all. Slaughtered almost 80 million.

Stalin banned guns for all. Slaughtered over 20 million.

Should I go on? The Chinese, who according to your State Dept are your #1 military threat, are supporting the banning of weapons in the US as well. Doesn't that strike as an odd contradiction?

Governments were responsible for over 400 million murders last century, conservatively. So obviously the smart thing is to give government all the firepower. It always works out so well.

FlyLikeAnEagle said:

It appears you would like a forum that no one posts anything except you and your right wing buddies otherwise you're offended.

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It would seem you know little about history and what the real dangers in the world are. It's easy to get very emotional about this, lord knows I did. But if you let your emotion interfere with your ability to reason, you are taking a dangerous position (on all issues, not just this one).

It's not like the executive has claimed they can do anything they want to you at any time they please without any kind of due process after all. Oh wait, they did claim that. Best give them all the firepower, that's going to obviously create a safer environment for all because there is no history of authoritarian leaning governments slaughtering political enemies or groups they simply don't like.

Governments > People - only to keep the People safe though (and if you happen to get slaughtered it was for the greater good anyway).

Trolling said:

And then what happened?

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Obama gave out phones in place of guns and the world was at peace.

Canna Sylvan said:

I hope you're doing a bad troll.

Anyone can be declared insane. If it could be proven you're the one who wrote some of the crazy shit you write here, medicated, it'd be no contest.

A wife hates you. Wants to fuck you over. If you have kids together, she can, with enough money and a feminist lawyer (like Bucky), get you committed for the loco weed.

It's much harder to prove sanity, than to accuse you of insanity. Even if they find out your wife lied and was the insane one, you're fucked. You can't cure crazy, even accused kind.

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The latest DSM (which by the way is written by a small group of people in a room who are accountable to no one except possibly pharmaceutical companies) lists basically every human emotion as a mental illness worthy of treatment. So there's that too.