silicate???

zem

Well-Known Member
there is something missing with this info. i still don't understand why commercial farms don't include silicon in their formulas, i can't just assume that all these scientists and botanists have missed such a vital element. there has to be something that we missed, but still can't find what it is. it is not about my personal opinion, because in science, opinions don't change a thing, fact are facts. actually, i will be very very happy if a silicon additive in feeding of hydro plants is beneficial, but if it is not, then i cannot change this. i also can't just drop the question and not research it, because i really need an answer, will keep trying to know the truth
 

famine

Well-Known Member
IME spider mites cant really be controlled, they have to be eliminated completely. i doubt that they are not appearing only because you are feeding with potassium silicate additive. i am interested to know about the perlite medium in flood and drain, how often do you flood and doesn't it hold excessive water? is it reusable? i use it for keeping mother plants mainly because it holds moisture for a long time and i don't have to water often, but for my flood and drain i use growrocks and flood like 8 times per day
I use perlite in 1 gal pots with 3/4" of rockwool croutons in the bottom to stop the perlite from escaping. I flood every 3 hrs during lights on. But I have flooded as little as once a day. Plants have gone a couple of days with out wilting depending on size.
My moms are in 3 gal pots and are flooded every 6 hrs under 24/0 lighting.

As for reuse I haven't really tried. I harvest a 2x4 table every 2 weeks so I am not sure its worth all the work.
I make an EWC tea every week using MycoGro Soluble so I am wondering if that would "inoccullate" the perlite making it safer to reuse with just a good rinse with tap water.

My root balls look pearly white by the end of 10 weeks so I am pretty happy. I am going to reuse a bunch in the spring outside in new raised beds.

Cheers
Famine
 
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Hydroburn

Well-Known Member
there is something missing with this info. i still don't understand why commercial farms don't include silicon in their formulas, i can't just assume that all these scientists and botanists have missed such a vital element.
probably because there's already tons of silica in the earth. it also can't be mixed and stored in the same bottle with hydro nutes or it turns to some kind of plastic sludge.
 

Scroga

Well-Known Member
Whats the go with house and gardens ' ammino treatment'? There adds claim its the smallest grade silica available plus packed with other goodies? Is this a gimmick?
 

Nitegazer

Well-Known Member
Enjoying the conversation here. Good to see folks looking for genuine information.

Here's an article I found. Though only the abstract, some of the questions being asked here are clearly addressed. Though the article does not address cannabis specifically, 'commercial crops' would generally include it.

Got silicon? The non-essential beneficial plant nutrient
Kathryn E Richmond, Michael Sussman
425 Henry Mall, Room 1250, Biotechnology Center, University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, Wisconsin 53706, USA

Abstract
Research on a possible nutritional role for the element silicon has been hampered by the diverse beneficial effects that it has on monocots and dicots, and the subsequent difficulties in focusing studies on a single genetic model system. Although deemed a non-essential nutrient for the majority of plants, the benefits of silicon include increasing pest and pathogen resistance, drought and heavy metal tolerance, and the quality and yield of agricultural crops. Although the pathways and molecular mechanisms by which silicon is absorbed and deposited in plants are still unclear, recent progress has been achieved through the use of rice mutants that are deficient in silicon uptake. Additionally, the application of electron-energy-loss spectroscopy (EELS) allows one to determine the composition of silica deposits conclusively. Thereby shedding light upon the role of silicon in heavy metal tolerance. With the complete sequence of the genomes for a dicot (Arabidopsis) and a monocot (rice) available for large-scale genetic analysis, the future bodes well for a more complete understanding of the biological role of silicon and its mode of transport into and through plants.

If anyone wants to get the full article ($31.50), here's the link:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369526603000414
 
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Milovan

Well-Known Member
Silicon not only helps with resistances but also builds a stronger cell wall structure and
helps deliver neuts more efficiently. I used Silicon every feeding on my last
outdoor soil grow with no ill effects at all. Visually, I can't tell if silicon did anything but it sure
didn't hurt using it.
 

Nitegazer

Well-Known Member
One other section from a study I found on-line:
http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/7/1383.full


Silica in Plants: Biological, Biochemical and Chemical Studies
Heather A. Currie and Carole C. Perry*
[h=2]ROLE OF SILICA IN STRESS RELIEF[/h]The presence of Si in plants has been found to alleviate many abiotic and biotic stresses, leading to the incorporation of silicates into many fertilizers. How Si is able to exert such a protective effect has yet to be fully elucidated although roles including providing a physical and/or biochemical defence system have been proposed... An alternative explanation for silicon's protective role is as a biologically active element capable of triggering a broad range of natural defences. This was first demonstrated in cucumbers: Si-treated plants demonstrated enhanced activity of chitinases, peroxidases, polyphenol oxidases and flavonoid phytoalexins, all of which may protect against fungal pathogens (Chérif et al., 1994; Fawe et al., 1998). Further investigation of these defence mechanisms by Bélanger et al. (2003) andRodrigues et al. (2003), studying wheat and rice blast, respectively, indicated that these species were also capable of inducing similar biologically active defence agents, including increased production of glycosylated phenolics and antimicrobial products such as diterpenoid phytoalexins in the presence of silica. Experiments performed on cucumber leaves following fungal infection showed that further resistance to infection is acquired by expression of a proline-rich protein together with the presence of silica at the site of attempted penetration (Kauss et al., 2003)...
In addition, metal toxicity, salinity, drought and temperature stresses can be alleviated by Si application (Liang et al., 2007) and the means by which Si exerts these protective effects is still under investigation. Metal toxicities including Mn, Cd, Al and Zn have been studied and the proposed mechanisms for the action of Si include the accumulation of Zn as a silicate (Neuman and zur Nieden, 2001); reduction of lipid peroxidation and increased enzymatic (e.g. superoxide dismutase; SOD) and non-enzymatic antioxidants (e.g. ascorbate) against Mn toxicity (Shi et al., 2005); and increased release of phenolics with strong chelating ability for Al tolerance (Kidd et al., 2001). Drought tolerance brought about by the application of ‘Si’ may result from decreased transpiration (Epstein, 1999) and the presence of silicified structures in plants suggested a reduction of leaf heat-load, providing an effective cooling mechanism and thereby improving plant tolerance to high temperatures (Wang et al., 2005). The resistance to salt stress has been found to be due to the enhancement of enzymes such as SOD and catalase, preventing membrane oxidative damage (Zhu et al., 2004; Moussa, 2006).
 

urban1026835

Well-Known Member
my bottles are GH armor Si 0-0-4 and mad farmer is 0-0-3.

I can say from personal experience my plants stems are much sturdier with si then without.
 
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Scroga

Well-Known Member
@budman
My question about h&g ammino treatment is not about ph it is with regards to silica not being stable when mixed with other nutrient.. How is it that h&g are the only ones able to mix Si with other components?....regardless of particle size..
 

budman111

Well-Known Member
@budman
My question about h&g ammino treatment is not about ph it is with regards to silica not being stable when mixed with other nutrient..
Not being stable as in what then? PPM dropping/increasing?

How is it that h&g are the only ones able to mix Si with other components?....regardless of particle size..
No idea TBH, others maybe could but choose not to
 

Scroga

Well-Known Member
No need to be a dick...
What I meant was..it doesn't make sense that only one company would ' mix' and all the others ' choose' not to? Something smells fishy...please smoke a bowl before answering...
 
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budman111

Well-Known Member
No need to be a dick...
What I meant was..it doesn't make sense that only one company would ' mix' and all the others ' choose' not to? Something smells fishy...please smoke a bowl before answering...
Not had mt incredibowl this morning lol
 

zem

Well-Known Member
cool... this is beginning to add up to something useful, the readings seem to support the use of silicon as being beneficial, still i am trying to figure why the hell are big hydro farms not mentioning any use of silica in their formulas?... could it be like a well kept secret ingredient or do they have any further info that leads them not to use it?
 

urban1026835

Well-Known Member
http://tnfarchives.nofa.org/?q=article/introduction-silicon-nutrition-soils-and-crops-focus-cucurbits

Silicon (Si) has recently been recognized as a quasiessential element in plant nutrition. Some plant species, such as diatoms and equisetum, can not grow without silicon. Other plants benefit from silicon nutrition to various degrees depending on the environmental conditions. Rice, wheat, cucurbits, and sugarcane are examples of crops that often benefit from enhanced levels of silicon nutrition. In crop production the benefits from silicon may include increased yield, disease and insect resistance, and tolerance to stresses such as cold, drought, and toxic metals. In addition to plants, the value of silicon is gaining attention in animal nutrition where silicon has been shown to play a role in the health of bone, joints, skin, hair, and other connective tissues.

Monocot plant species generally take up more silicon than dicots. Crops may be roughly classified as accumulators, intermediate, or non-accumulators with respect to their tendency to take up silicon. Rice, wheat, and sugarcane are examples of silicon accumulators; cucurbits are intermediate; tomato is a non-accumulator. In accumulators the amount of silicon up take is large and can easily exceed the levels of up take for other major plant nutrients such as nitrogen or potassium.

Because silicon is the second most abundant element in mineral soils it may come as a surprise that silicon can be a limiting nutrient. Most of the silicon is held in the crystalline structure of sand, silt and clay size particles. Silicon can be taken up by plants from the soil solution as silicic acid (H4SiO4) as soil particles weather and release silicon into the solution. Thus, while the total soil An Introduction to Silicon Nutrition of Soils and Crops with a Focus on Cucurbits silicon content may be very large, the amount of soluble Si available for plant up take is limited. Plant residues, depending on the original species and composition, can be an agronomicly useful source of silicon that is cycled in the soil crop system. Soils vary significantly in their ability to supply available silicon for plant uptake. In general, less weathered, geologically younger soils have a better supply of silicon than highly weathered or older soils. Ultisols and Spodosols are soil orders that are common in the Eastern USA, that have been extensively weathered and tend to be somewhat silicon depleted. Oxisols that are common in the tropics are the most highly weathered soils and they are the most silicon depleted. In contrast, Mollisols, common to the USA Great Plains, are less weathered, and contain more silicon. Histosols, also known as peat or muck soils, contain little mineral material and are often Si deficient.

Soil and plant testing can be performed to determine the silicon status but so far there has been too little research to support interpretations for most soils and crops grown in temperate regions. Most of the soil fertility research in relation to silicon has focused on soils and crops of tropical regions where large responses to silicon fertilization are common in rice and sugarcane.

About five years ago I began to focus some of my soil fertility research and Extension efforts on silicon because it appeared that this nutrient had not received much attention for crops grown on temperate region soils. My first experiment was conducted on pumpkin because cucurbits are know to take up significant amounts of silicon and because the scientific literature suggested that silicon nutrition could suppress powdery mildew disease on cucumber and other crops.

The field experiment with pumpkin was conducted on a Quakertown silt loam soil that had an initial soil pH of 5.7. Plots were established in 2000 by amending the soil with either CaCO3 (calcium carbonate or co
mmon agricultural limestone) or CaSiO3 (calcium silicate, an alternative liming material) at the rate of 3.5 tons/acre of calcium carbonate equivalent (CCE). Tillage was performed to incorporate the liming materials with soil. Half of the pumpkin plots received an application of fungicide weekly throughout the summer as is the typical practice for powdery mildew control. In late September, the pumpkin foliage was visually rated for percent of leaf surface area covered with powdery mildew. Marketable pumpkins were harvested, counted, and weighed from each plot. This experiment showed that the silicon amendment significantly increased pumpkin yield in the first season but not in the second (Table 1). In both years the pumpkin grown on the silicon amended soil exhibited a delayed on-set of powdery mildew disease and better late season leaf retention (Figure 1). The silicon treatment also enhanced the effectiveness of fungicides for powdery mildew control.

In a subsequent experiment with field corn grown in 2002 and 2003 on the previously established plots we observed a decrease in European Corn Borer tunneling in the corn stalks (unpublished data). There was, however, no significant difference in corn yield between silicon amended and nonamended soil. Plant tissue analysis revealed that in samples of pumpkin and corn plant tissues, the silicon concentrations were approximately doubled by the silicon amendment. This indicated that a single application of silicon to soil can have potentially long-term benefits.

In recent greenhouse experiments using 3 different soils from New Jersey, amending soil with silicon was found to suppress powdery mildew on Kentucky bluegrass (Table 2). Thus, although research in our region is limited to a few crops and soils it appears that silicon fertilization of soils has the potential to benefit crops both in terms of yield and resistance to pests.

Soil fertility research with silicon is needed on a wider range of soils and crops. Plant and soil test calibration research needs to be done so that plant and soil test reports can be interpreted as a basis for silicon fertility recommendations. The potential dietary influence on animals from increased silicon in plants also needs to be examined.

Research is also needed on different types and sources of silicon for use as soil amendments (i.e. silicon fertilizers). This is a particularly important research question for organic farming. In
my research trials I have been using a calcium silicate material, which is a by-product of the stainless steel industry (sold as Reclime, Recmix Inc, Pa), as the source of silicon. When calcium silicate is applied to soil it has an ability to neutralize soil acidity that is similar to calcium carbonate. Thus, both calcium silicate and calcium carbonate are liming materials and they are marketed as such. But I do not know if calcium silicate is an approved material for use in organic farming. The answer to this question may depend on the source of the material. In organic farming, use of industrial by-products typically throws up a red flag. There is, however, a naturally occurring mineral source of calcium silicate know as Wollastonite. It might be satisfactory for organic production but be sure to check this out with your organic farm certifier.

Another option for the organic grower wanting to improve the availability of silicon in soil is the use of certain composts, plant residues, or crop rotations. Wheat and rice are crops that take up considerable amounts of silicon from soil that can become available to subsequent crops. Composts made from rice straw or rice hulls have been shown to be effective sources of plant available silicon. This might also be true for composted wheat straw. The incorporation of chopped wheat straw into soil has been shown to also improve silicon availability to subsequent crops. Burning of wheat straw, however, decreases the plant availability of the silicon. Using wheat straw as a silicon source may have possibilities for benefiting organic production of cucurbits but be prepared for counteracting nitrogen deficiency that it associated with this high carbon to nitrogen ratio material.

References:
Belanger, R.R., P.A. Bowen, D.L. Ehret, and J.G.
Menzies. 1995. Soluble silicon. Its role in crop
and disease management of greenhouse crops.
Plant Disease. 79(4):329-335.
Calomme, M.R. 2003. Silicon, An Overlooked
Trace Mineral.. Life Extension. April. p 58-62.
Datnoff, L.E., G.H. Snyder, and G.H. Korndorfer.
2001. Silicon in Agriculture. Elsevier.
Elliott, C.L. and G.H. Snyder. 1991. Autoclaveinduced
digestion for the colorimetric determination
of silicon in rice straw. J. Agric.
Food Chem. 39:1118-1119.
Epstein, E. 1994. The anomaly of silicon in plant
biology. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. 91:11-17
Epstein, E. 1999. Silicon. Annu. Rev. Plant
Physiol. Plant Mol. Biol. 50:641-659.
Epstein, E. and A.J. Bloom. 2004. Mineral Nutrition
of Plants: Principles and Perspectives. Sinauer
Associates, Inc. Sunderland, Massachusetts.
Hamel, S.C. and J.R. Heckman. 1999. Impact of
mineral silicon products on powdery mildew
in greenhouse grown turf. Rutgers Turfgrass
Proceedings. 31:215-219.
Heckman, J.R., S. Johnston, and W. Cowgill.
2003. Pumpkin yield and disease response to
amending soil with silicon. HortScience.
38:552-554.
Jian Feng Ma and Eiichi Takahashi. 2002. Soil,
Fertilizer, and Plant Silicon Research in Japan.
Elsevier.
Korndorfer, G.H., G.H. Snyder, M. Ulloa, G.
Powell, and L.E. Datnoff. 2001. Calibration
of soil and plant silicon analysis for rice
production. J. Plant Nutrition. 24:1071-
1084.
Menzies, J., P. Bowen, D. Ehret, and D.M. Glass.
1992. Foliar applications of potassium
silicate reduce severity of powdery mildew on
cucumber, muskmelon, and zucchini squash.
J. Am. Soc. Hortic. Sci. 117(6):902-905.
Rodgers-Gray, B.S. and M.W. Shaw. 2000. Substantial
reductions in winter wheat disease caused
by addition of straw but not manure to soil.
Plant Pathology. 49: 590-599.
Rodgers-Gray, B.S. and M.W. Shaw. 2004. Effects
of straw and silicon soil amendments on some
foliar and stem-base diseases in pot-grown
winter wheat. Plant Pathology. 53: 1-8.
Savant, N.K., L.E. Datnoff, and G.H. Snyder.
1997. Depletion of plant-available silicon in
soils: a possible cause of declining rice yields.
Commun. Soil Sci. Plant Anal.
28(13&14):1245-1252.
Joseph Heckman is a Specialist in Soil Fertility at
Rutgers
 

Silky Shagsalot

Well-Known Member
i started using pro-tekt about ten years ago. my grow shop guy turned me onto it. told me how beneficial it was to the girls. gave it a try, and have used it ever since. my plants have always been very healthy, and strong. i use it sparingly. i use it for only one thing, ph up. i always dilute it first, 2 parts water, 1 part pro-tekt. it binds very easily with the nutrients in your rez. i add it slowly while stirring.
 
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