sitting HPS on floor vertically?

FlightSchool · Dec 26, 2012

Whats up guys,

I have one of those Floralux mini 150W HPS all in one setups that look like this

and I'm wondering if I could sit it up on the floor (just like the photo shows above) pointed at my flowering girls.

Right now I have a 400W CMH over them that I replaced the 150W with, But now the 150W is sitting in a box and I was trying to think of a way that I could incorporate it into my flowering room even if it's only on for a few hours each day. I have no more overhead room due to my air cooled hood (it's only a 2x3 space)

I would of course have to keep the ballast cool since ventilation will not be as ideal with it sitting on the floor, I also have the duct attachment for the hood so I could run a 4" duct from my ac to cool it

But will there be any issues running it vertically like that?

Thanks guys

ASMALLVOICE · Dec 26, 2012

As long as the ballast doesn't get overheated and it is setting on non-flammable material. Make sure that for some reason if it was to fall over, it won't start a fire. Light give off an epic amount of heat.

Peace and Safe Grows

Asmallvoice

delvite · Dec 26, 2012

shouldnt have any issues but as stated put the ballast on a slab

justanotherbozo · Dec 26, 2012

...if you just sit the fixture on the floor it will only direct light in one direction, why not disassemble it and remote the ballast outside the growspace and either hang the bulb and socket or fashion a mount to stand it up so you get a true vertical dispersal of your available light?

...if you have even a little mechanical aptitude and a basic understanding of electricity, ...and your not color blind, this project should be fairly straightforward and if you run into any difficulties i can either help you or, if things get too technical, i can direct you to the threads responsible for teaching me what i know.

btw, i have actually done this to that fixture and the key to getting it right is to clearly label each wire and connection before you disconnect them so you will be able to reconnect them in the same configuration, otherwise you could fry something.

here is a link to a thread i think any grower would benefit from reading.

Growroom Electricity and Wiring

peace, bozo

SativaMe@420 · Dec 26, 2012

Yea if you can keep the temps in check then Id say definitely use it, CMH + HPS produces EXCELLENT RESULTS!!! I know a guy who's been growing for 25+ years and he said the best results he's ever got or even seen for that matter was from CMH + HPS, that said once a plant has been growing with CMH for more that a couple weeks don't switch to just HPS, you can supplement the CMH with HPS but don't cut out the CMH completely, CMH produces a much different spectrum than MH/HPS and with a lot more UVB as well, there's a more scientific explanation to it but basically when a plant gets used to growing under CMH and is suddenly switched to HPS/MH it really stuns it and stresses it, this has been noticed and mentioned a few times by growers and this actually happened to SCOTTYBALLS during his first CMH grow, its in his (-->Pineapple Express G13 Lab's Seed To Harvest<--) thread, a guy responded in the thread explaining why switching to HPS from CMH is a bad thing, check it out if you so desire.

FlightSchool · Dec 26, 2012

Thank you all for the awesome replies and information

The floor of my grow room is all tile, Nothing flammable at that level except for the plants themselves of course

I'm wondering if I should wait until I'm further along in flowering (just flipped to 12/12 yesterday) or go ahead and start using it now

I don't think temps will be an issue right now, But I don't see myself being able to do this in the summer and keep the temps down without adding more duct work or running my ac full blast

FlightSchool · Dec 26, 2012

justanotherbozo said:
...if you just sit the fixture on the floor it will only direct light in one direction, why not disassemble it and remote the ballast outside the growspace and either hang the bulb and socket or fashion a mount to stand it up so you get a true vertical dispersal of your available light?

...if you have even a little mechanical aptitude and a basic understanding of electricity, ...and your not color blind, this project should be fairly straightforward and if you run into any difficulties i can either help you or, if things get too technical, i can direct you to the threads responsible for teaching me what i know.

btw, i have actually done this to that fixture and the key to getting it right is to clearly label each wire and connection before you disconnect them so you will be able to reconnect them in the same configuration, otherwise you could fry something.

here is a link to a thread i think any grower would benefit from reading.

Growroom Electricity and Wiring

peace, bozo

because if I hang it vertically it will still be on one side/corner of the room and not in the middle as that is where my 400W CMH is. No matter what way I do it, it will still only be on one side of the plants and so disassembling it and wiring it up remotely would be kind of pointless when it will have one side of wasted light vs it being reflected back in the hood.

I know the benefit would be keeping the heat of the ballast out of the room, But then I have to design something to house the bulb safely and also spend $$ on parts. Kind of looking for the most hassle free way to use the light instead of letting it sit in a box. I was going to put it in my mini tent to flower clones but it's proving to let off too much heat for that

Thank you for the link, It was very helpful.

SativaMe@420 · Dec 26, 2012

If for whatever reason you can't hang it or make it remote then just stand it up like you suggested in your first post, raise it off the floor with something just in case of water spills. Keep in mind that whenever using side lighting from only one side you'll want to either move the light to the other side of the room once a day or turn your plants half a turn once a day, obviously the former would be less work but either way you want the plants to get even exposure on all sides whenever possible. Like I said, if you have the means to keep temps in check then through that HPS in there ASAP!!!
MORE LIGHT= MORE BUD!!!
Just FYI: You might already know this but just in case don't look at your CMH bulb directly when its on and if your going to be in the grow room with it on for more than 20min I highly suggest you use some sunglasses with UV protection, they actually sell sunglasses for grow rooms now but I imagine they aren't cheap, any sunglasses with UV protection will do, the UV that CMH produces is very bad for your eyes and Ive even heard of people getting slight sun burns from it. Anyway, keep up the good work and keep us posted.

polyarcturus · Dec 26, 2012

got any factual info on that claim there sativa?

i mean as far as the CMH producing UVB? and uh of course switching the light can cause some shock, but it wont fuck up the grow if you know what your doing. shit some mother fuckers can pull as good of a yield with MH as HPS.
i think your feeding him too much info, he didnt ask for all that and besides that i want some real proof, not a thread of someones fuck up, swinging in and out of spectrums can be done with out harm, nature is constantly shifting spectrum.

FlightSchool · Dec 27, 2012

I have started wearing sunglasses in the grow room a few weeks ago, I noticed a strain happening with my eyes that I didn't have before. Due to having a lot of reptiles my eyes are constantly strained by sun like lights and I think having the grow lights as well is taking it's toll. After I installed the CMH I didn't think I needed them as much because I could see "Better" with the white light it let off but I will definitely start wearing them again.

I don't remember my MH light ever giving me eye issues a few years back, but my HPS always did.

I'm very impressed with the 400W CMH so far, It runs a lot cooler than then 150W HPS did and my plants seem to be loving it. I only wish they had a 600W version but maybe one day

I turn my plants every day, Out of OCD habit. So that won't be an issue, I wish I could find something to sit the HPS on that had holes in it. Like a metal box but with vents so I could position a fan in it pointing up at the ballast

I thought about a milk crate but that might melt if it gets too hot

Sunbiz1 · Dec 27, 2012

SativaMe@420 said:
Yea if you can keep the temps in check then Id say definitely use it, CMH + HPS produces EXCELLENT RESULTS!!! I know a guy who's been growing for 25+ years and he said the best results he's ever got or even seen for that matter was from CMH + HPS, that said once a plant has been growing with CMH for more that a couple weeks don't switch to just HPS, you can supplement the CMH with HPS but don't cut out the CMH completely, CMH produces a much different spectrum than MH/HPS and with a lot more UVB as well, there's a more scientific explanation to it but basically when a plant gets used to growing under CMH and is suddenly switched to HPS/MH it really stuns it and stresses it, this has been noticed and mentioned a few times by growers and this actually happened to SCOTTYBALLS during his first CMH grow, its in his (-->Pineapple Express G13 Lab's Seed To Harvest<--) thread, a guy responded in the thread explaining why switching to HPS from CMH is a bad thing, check it out if you so desire.

That thread is a 50 page dinosaur, lol. The reason MH works well in combo with HPS is probably due to UVB/UVA spectrums. HPS bulbs give off none, while MH give off a ton.

Edit: That is if the MH bulb has no coating on it.

Edit #2, forgot to add the light link:

http://www.anaheim.net/utilities/ea/PA_4.html

polyarcturus · Dec 27, 2012

Sunbiz1 said:
That thread is a 50 page dinosaur, lol. The reason MH works well in combo with HPS is probably due to UVB/UVA spectrums. HPS bulbs give off none, while MH give off a ton.

Edit: That is if the MH bulb has no coating on it.

Edit #2, forgot to add the light link:

http://www.anaheim.net/utilities/ea/PA_4.html

you are correct to an extent, but just drop the info about UVB, MH cMH and HPS all dont give off any or very little and at levels that are not really relevant.

UVA is a wide spectrum in compassion to what UVB is, and yes this is the spectrum(UVA to deep blue) that HPS misses out on, but also 420nm and it adds a lot more 460nm.

SativaMe@420 · Dec 27, 2012

polyarcturus said:
got any factual info on that claim there sativa?

i mean as far as the CMH producing UVB? and uh of course switching the light can cause some shock, but it wont fuck up the grow if you know what your doing. shit some mother fuckers can pull as good of a yield with MH as HPS.
i think your feeding him too much info, he didnt ask for all that and besides that i want some real proof, not a thread of someones fuck up, swinging in and out of spectrums can be done with out harm, nature is constantly shifting spectrum.

polyarcturus said:
you are correct to an extent, but just drop the info about UVB, MH cMH and HPS all dont give off any or very little and at levels that are not really relevant.

UVA is a wide spectrum in compassion to what UVB is, and yes this is the spectrum(UVA to deep blue) that HPS misses out on, but also 420nm and it adds a lot more 460nm.

OK, first off I don't mean to hijack the thread, polyarcturus obviously wasn't properly informed on CMH so I have to take the time to set him straight:

Well your right about HPS & MH producing very little UVB, however you are VERY WRONG about CMH not producing any, in fact it produces more UVB that any other HID lamp, this is FACT whether you believe it or not, if it wasn't then why do so many CMH growers report there eyes hurting (even FlightSchool mentioned it) and even slight sun burns after extended periods of exposure?????
BECAUSE OF THE UVB!!!!!!! (Just like the SUN!) Why do you think so many growers report such better results when using CMH over HPS or MH? Because CMH produces more red that HPS, more blue than MH and has the extra UVB, just do a search for CMH & UVB and you'll see post after post of people talking not only about the added benefits of UVB but the dangers as well, here's a thread right here on RIU about it: (-->CLICK HERE<--) And as for your comment about wanting some "real proof" and not "someones fuck up", well you were referring to SCOTTYBALLS Pineapple Express G13 Lab's Seed To Harvest thread and apparently you need to take another look because that grow was FAR FROM A FUCK UP!!!!!! Other than some slight shock from switching from CMH to HPS (which was corrected by switching back to CMH) that grow was a COMPLETE SUCCESS!! He even commented that the CMH made the plants look more healthy than any other light he had ever used and that it produced the best quality bud he'd ever grown (at least at the time), I mean look at the results, they speak for themselves (1 plant grown in a GH Waterfarm under 1 x 400W Philips MasterColor CMH):
View attachment 2457364 View attachment 2457365

SativaMe@420 · Dec 27, 2012

FlightSchool said:
I'm very impressed with the 400W CMH so far, It runs a lot cooler than then 150W HPS did and my plants seem to be loving it. I only wish they had a 600W version but maybe one day

Philips recently released a new line of CDM lamps (Ceramic Discharge Metal Halide, basically the same as CMH) that range from 145W to 860W, the 830W & 860W run on 1000W magnetic MH ballasts and are vertical burn only (the OG Vertical Hood is the best hood on the market anyway), Grow Light Express (an online grow light & hydro supply retailer) commented in their description of the 830W CDM Lamp that, and I quote: "its going change everything", a Lamp MUST produce some pretty amazing results for a retailer to make a bold claim like that, here's the link for the GLE AD/Description: (-->CLICK HERE<--) If your interested in the Lamps check em out: (-->CLICK HERE<--)

polyarcturus · Dec 27, 2012

SativaMe@420 said:
OK, first off I don't mean to hijack the thread, polyarcturus obviously wasn't properly informed on CMH so I have to take the time to set him straight:

Well your right about HPS & MH producing very little UVB, however you are VERY WRONG about CMH not producing any, in fact it produces more UVB that any other HID lamp, this is FACT whether you believe it or not, if it wasn't then why do so many CMH growers report there eyes hurting (even FlightSchool mentioned it) and even slight sun burns after extended periods of exposure?????
BECAUSE OF THE UVB!!!!!!! (Just like the SUN!) Why do you think so many growers report such better results when using CMH over HPS or MH? Because CMH produces more red that HPS, more blue than MH and has the extra UVB, just do a search for CMH & UVB and you'll see post after post of people talking not only about the added benefits of UVB but the dangers as well, here's a thread right here on RIU about it: (-->CLICK HERE<--) And as for your comment about wanting some "real proof" and not "someones fuck up", well you were referring to SCOTTYBALLS Pineapple Express G13 Lab's Seed To Harvest thread and apparently you need to take another look because that grow was FAR FROM A FUCK UP!!!!!! Other than some slight shock from switching from CMH to HPS (which was corrected by switching back to CMH) that grow was a COMPLETE SUCCESS!! He even commented that the CMH made the plants look more healthy than any other light he had ever used and that it produced the best quality bud he'd ever grown (at least at the time), I mean look at the results, they speak for themselves (1 plant grown in a GH Waterfarm under 1 x 400W Philips MasterColor CMH):
View attachment 2457364 View attachment 2457365

all i see is jibber jabber here, and some wonderful plants grown under a full spectrum your offering no evidence, i although on the other hand can offer evidence that they DO NOT produce UVB. the glass used stops UV from escaping, email phillips if you dont believe me.

and also i was trying to say it was a fuck up, just and accident that happened during a grow. doesnt mean the grow didnt turn out fine

FlightSchool · Dec 28, 2012

Interesting views here on the CMH,

My reason for buying the CMH was that it burns cooler, Offers more spectrum and well... I can't stand the orange light from the HPS. It can hide so much as well as make you think you have yellowing plants.

Maybe I will get a tan from my grow room? haha

I set the HPS up last night on the side of my grow room, It raised the temps about 2-3 degrees but nothing extreme. I will be running it 6 hours of the 12 hour light cycle. I'm not too comfortable yet having it run while I am asleep. But I'm pretty excited to have some under lighting that isn't CFL.

I stuck a box fan right behind it and kept the ballast nice and cool.

SativaMe@420 · Dec 28, 2012

FlightSchool said:
Interesting views here on the CMH,

My reason for buying the CMH was that it burns cooler, Offers more spectrum and well... I can't stand the orange light from the HPS. It can hide so much as well as make you think you have yellowing plants.

Maybe I will get a tan from my grow room? haha

I set the HPS up last night on the side of my grow room, It raised the temps about 2-3 degrees but nothing extreme. I will be running it 6 hours of the 12 hour light cycle. I'm not too comfortable yet having it run while I am asleep. But I'm pretty excited to have some under lighting that isn't CFL.

I stuck a box fan right behind it and kept the ballast nice and cool.

Why are you not comfortable running the 150W HPS while you sleep, are you worried that it will fall over and catch fire or something??? Just get a cinder block or metal box of some kind to put under it and leave it on the whole 12hrs, just make sure that its nice and secure, trust me running the 150W HPS with the CMH for the whole 12hrs is going to produce better results and higher yield than only running it for 6hrs, of course I'm sure you know this but the point is it would be worth doing. You could use one of the metal V hangers on the side of the 150W HPS opposite of the ballast and hang it from the sealing or something to operate vertically like you want, then you wouldn't need to set it on the floor/cinder block etc., just an idea.

SativaMe@420 · Dec 28, 2012

polyarcturus said:
all i see is jibber jabber here, your offering no evidence, i although on the other hand can offer evidence that they DO NOT produce UVB. the glass used stops UV from escaping, email phillips if you dont believe me.

I will in fact be contacting Philips regarding there CMH/CDM Lamps and when I get the proof that they do produce UV it will put this to rest once and for all, however I actually do have proof that they do produce "SOME" UV, its right in the spectrum distribution graph they (Philips) provide, UV light is in the wavelength range of 10-400nm, look at the graph and you can clearly see that the Philips CMH lamps do produce light in the 400nm range, the only light that's produced in that wavelength is UV light!!!, check it out for your self:

xmax · Dec 28, 2012

The Philips is rated 'open fixture' and does have a fairly high amount of UVB emitting from it, being it's primary function was to retrofit high ceiling industrial HPS fixtures, well above the height harmful to people. It is a much more intense light, and has proven to be a game changer for me. I'm on the third single plant grow, with one light for the whole thing. Only need to add more fixtures if the room commands it. Trichome production has been higher with this light, as well as yields. A few minutes in a small room with this thing on will give you a headache though, plus some other little surprises down the road I'm sure.

polyarcturus · Dec 29, 2012

xmax said:
The Philips is rated 'open fixture' and does have a fairly high amount of UVB emitting from it, being it's primary function was to retrofit high ceiling industrial HPS fixtures, well above the height harmful to people. It is a much more intense light, and has proven to be a game changer for me. I'm on the third single plant grow, with one light for the whole thing. Only need to add more fixtures if the room commands it. Trichome production has been higher with this light, as well as yields. A few minutes in a small room with this thing on will give you a headache though, plus some other little surprises down the road I'm sure.
View attachment 2458738

please dont jump in with opinions. headaches dont mean a damn thing go stare at an hps for a few minutes.

sitting HPS on floor vertically?

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