Stelthy's 600W Hps Project! (New-Cab)

stelthy

stelthy

Well-Known Member



I am Vegging with a 250W Metal Halide but am toying with the idea of flowering with my 400W HPS instead of the 250W HPS lamp I had originally planned to use since my Great White Shark is only getting fed on one side and I have noticed the left side drooping a bit.. Also the fan leaves are huge and are curved in places, so I will slow my CPU fans and out-take to raise the temp a bit higher, Also I though about the idea of redirecting my intake under the growshelf (centralised) so the cool intake doesn't flow over my left DWC pot 1st and the cool air should then be more evenly spread before being pushed up towards my reflector. Its just an idea at the mo but I'll look into it another day and just slow the fans for today.

Oh I also topped the Great White Shark today, So I hope that goes well :) - STELTHY :leaf:
 
stelthy

stelthy

Well-Known Member



My LST'd Strawberry Thai is looking better now she's being fed on full strength nuits, I still water with plain water every 2nd/3rd watering just to make sure salt and old nuits don't build up. Also I removed 98% of the yellow dry crispy leaves and now she is looking quite pretty, The Great White Shark is now also on full strength nuits and the growth rate has improved radically, I am hoping the canopy will be even soon :) - STELTHY :leaf:
 
littlegrower2004

littlegrower2004

Well-Known Member
yes i like the sounds of going into the 400watt for flower! you should look into defoliation and see if you want to trim back a few of those leaves and allow more bud sites to develop. enjoying this weeks update!
 
stelthy

stelthy

Well-Known Member
littlegrower2004 said:
yes i like the sounds of going into the 400watt for flower! you should look into defoliation and see if you want to trim back a few of those leaves and allow more bud sites to develop. enjoying this weeks update!
Click to expand...
I think whilst the cold weather and cool temps are in my favour I will defo be using the 400 for flowering :) Do you mean trim back the Strawberry Thai or the Great White Shark? Glad you like the update, a week is enough time for some good growth to report back on :) - STELTHY :leaf:
 
stelthy

stelthy

Well-Known Member
SCCA

SCCA

Active Member
hey stelthy! nice update! your strawb thai may be starting to get a bit root bound. did you weave it through the screen or spread it under? you are definitely going to need to repot before you flower, especially if you use the 400w. im really serious about toping them 'maters they will over power your other plants and inhibit their growth. let them flower now too, other than what you cut off. they will appreciate a more balance nute mix right now.
 
stelthy

stelthy

Well-Known Member
SCCA said:
hey stelthy! nice update! your strawb thai may be starting to get a bit root bound. did you weave it through the screen or spread it under? you are definitely going to need to repot before you flower, especially if you use the 400w. im really serious about toping them 'maters they will over power your other plants and inhibit their growth. let them flower now too, other than what you cut off. they will appreciate a more balance nute mix right now.
Click to expand...
Hi SCCA, Cheers! I cable tied the stems loosly to the top of the screen. How much bigger pot do you think I'll need + What would happen if I just left the S.T. in the same pot she's in now?

The Tomatoes have had all growth up to the level of the screen removed (lolly popped)! How much trimming would you recommend? I've not Grown Tomatoes before and have only briefly researched them on You-Tube etc. I have already decided to let the flowers stay as of last trim. Will the photo-period effect them when I change from 18/6 to 12/12 when my Ladies need to make the change? Do you think I should change the Tomatoes feed from Canna Vega + Canna Rhyzotonic to Canna's flowering nuits and feeding schedule?.. Or wait until the lighting times change.

Thanks for the tips etc mate, good info is always received well REP for your efforts - STELTHY :leaf:
 
CSI Stickyicky

CSI Stickyicky

Well-Known Member
stelthy said:
Hi CSI Stickyicky :) Glad me and my Cab. have inspired you! I looked on your thread all seems to be going well I'll make an appearence every now n then to see how your getting on if you need any help etc.. you know where to find me :) - STELTHY :leaf:
Click to expand...
Hey, thanks! I think i got it under control, (for now :) )but then again, i'm not done yet. I still need to light proof my doors.

Your GWS is looking great, but the strawberry thai is looking a little yellow. SCCA's idea of root bound sounds like it might be the case. Using square pots, you can increase amount of soil, without increasing height or width.
 
stelthy

stelthy

Well-Known Member
CSI Stickyicky said:
Hey, thanks! I think i got it under control, (for now :) )but then again, i'm not done yet. I still need to light proof my doors.

Your GWS is looking great, but the strawberry thai is looking a little yellow. SCCA's idea of root bound sounds like it might be the case. Using square pots, you can increase amount of soil, without increasing height or width.
Click to expand...
Excellent news... I was planning on getting a square or rectangle pot, Gotta find some yet!

Also what what do you make of these?


7.5 Litres - Air-Pot KITS - 10 pack

The 7.5 litre Air-Pot is fantastic for growing on plants, started in the smaller Air-Pots, to larger sizes.

After one year it offers instant impact when planted into any garden and would be a fantastic gift to your gardening friends at that size.

With proper care you will be delighted that even slow growing plants potted from a 1 litre Air-Pot into the 7.5 litre Air-Pot will put amazing growth in the first season.

Litres - 7.5
Diameter (mm) - 223
wall Length (mm) - 760
Wall Height (mm) - 255
Packs of 10
Price:£40.00

Here's a LINK to the site I am looking at them on :-



http://www.airpotgarden.com/



Air-Pots get the best out of all plants because they develop a remarkable root system. And vigorous roots support healthy and prolific plants.
Like many clever tools, it is actually very simple – the Air-Pot ‘air-prunes’ roots and this constant pruning prevents any root circling and promotes the growth of more and more feeder roots. It is these fine, fibrous roots which use all the available water and food very efficiently, to help develop great top growth and excellent fruit.

Good roots can only develop in healthy soil/compost - soil that is alive. Air-Pots also allow more air and better drainage than in any other container, another vital element that makes Air-Pot grown plants much healthier and happier.

Air-Pots have unusual cuspated walls, sort of an egg box configuration, made up of closed inward pointing cones and open ended outward pointing cones. There are no flat surfaces on the inside of the container to deflect roots and start the spiralling process.

The inward pointing cones direct the roots further outward to the open ended cones where, because the air density in the soil is too great, the roots dehydrate and are effectively pruned.

The plant responds to this "air-pruning" by sending out more roots to compensate for the loss which leads to a dense root system with a vast number of active white tipped roots.

The porosity of the Air-Pot also creates better conditions for bacterial activity and thus increases the amount of nutrients available to the plant. With so much root right back to the stem, the root system is very efficient in its use of all the available water and nutrient.

Plant vigour and health is therefore guaranteed.

Here is a video on them:


[video=youtube;iOf-39YS_GU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOf-39YS_GU[/video]


Let me Know what you think as I can get these pretty quickly :) - STELTHY :leaf:
 
SCCA

SCCA

Active Member
those seem like they operate the same way as the smart pots that people use. i was going to suggest a smart pot because they are cloth an will be easier to get around the root ball. you can buy one the width you need and roll down the sides to keep it short. get as large of one as you can fit in there. the smart pot will be more suited to your needs than a plastic pot because they naturally root prune and prevent the plant from becoming root bound. you my want to add an extra support under the shelf, wet soil can be a bit heavy. if you leave the ST in the same pot it will become so root bound it wont be able to absorb water or nutes.

i would suggest topping the tomatoes back to the level of the screen. it will create a more even canopy and slow them down a bit, allowing your ladies to catch up. save the tops and propagate them. its important to keep the ends of the cuttings in water until you stick them in rock wool, the capillaries draw in water so fast that they will get an embolism quicker than weed will. use a gel hormone, i have never had much success with liquids. the gel helps prevent embolism. im not sure how the light schedule will effect the tomatoes. when i grow mine under lights i keep them on an 16/8 schedule. i suspect that it will make the plant think that its fall and time to put up or shut up. i dont use canna nutes so im unfamiliar with their products, but tomatoes produce a large amount of stems and leaves, that means they need more nitrogen throughout their life. until the fruit begins to swell give them a more balanced fertilizer, something with like 2-1-1 ratio, then as the fruit swells bump up the N-P-K a bit and go with a 3-2-2 ratio. i dont usually feed much more than a 8-4-4, but some people push their plants more. you can drop the nitrogen level a bit once the plant is fruiting heavily, but dont cut it out completely. i also find tomatoes LOVE a carbohydrate booster. i dont know how well they work in hydro but i like to use corn syrup solids, i can get it at the local brew store for like $1 for 1.5oz, i only use 1/8tsp to 1/4tsp per gallon so the stuff lasts a long time. with the size of those tomatoes, you should really consider restarting them, especially if you have more than 2 weeks before switching the photoperiod. what does the root ball of the tomato look like? they are probably an indeterminate hybrid and will continue to fruit as long as conditions are favorable. by starting with cuttings you wont have to wait for them to mature and they they can start fruiting at a much smaller size.
 
littlegrower2004

littlegrower2004

Well-Known Member
stelthy- im going to have to disagree with the group on this one and say that you wont need a larger pot to flower. the way that plant has grown, i dont think it has anywhere near filled that pot with roots to the point of being root bound. ive seen FDD2BLK use a pot about that same size outdoor and got a monster plant with moster bud. just cause it was outdoor doesnt mean the roots could handle being in a smaller pot, therefore IMO a plant doesnt need a giant area for roots to form. consider the size of your hydro buckets, as long as there is good air flow and nute exchange from the soil then you should be good to go. when i mentioned defoliating, it was to all the plants. whenever there is major shading by fan leaves, you can remove the leaves and allow for the nodes to be in full light. most growers disagree with removing leaves but in my experience and from what ive seen, it does help increase growth rate and doesnt harm the plant. there is a number of threads on different sites, like icmag, that explain this in detail and show results. i just recently saw Las Fingerez of the 600club finish his plant in one of those air pots with very nice looking results. maybe you can swing in over there and ask him a few details about the pot and its use. smart pots are another way to go like SCAA mentioned.
 
stelthy

stelthy

Well-Known Member


You say these Smart pots are better than the pre-mentioned Air-pots? !!

I am a bit unsure at the moment and think I will research a little more 1st :) - STELTHY :leaf:
 
J

jsgamber

Active Member
littlegrower2004 said:
yes i like the sounds of going into the 400watt for flower! you should look into defoliation and see if you want to trim back a few of those leaves and allow more bud sites to develop. enjoying this weeks update!
Click to expand...
If you are bumping up to the 400w your light penetration will be much greater. Think about not trimming anything that can see light even if it's reflected light from your walls. If a leaf stays green, then it is producing food! Just my $0.02.

But other than my opinion on light, my other opinion is you are kicking butt! :D I think trimming back the tomato is probably a good idea. We have tomatoes growing outside and no matter how much you whack them down, they keep growing! This will let you keep your light hood down closer. That tomato plant should be just fine!
 
stelthy

stelthy

Well-Known Member
SCCA said:
those seem like they operate the same way as the smart pots that people use. i was going to suggest a smart pot because they are cloth an will be easier to get around the root ball. you can buy one the width you need and roll down the sides to keep it short. get as large of one as you can fit in there. the smart pot will be more suited to your needs than a plastic pot because they naturally root prune and prevent the plant from becoming root bound. you my want to add an extra support under the shelf, wet soil can be a bit heavy. if you leave the ST in the same pot it will become so root bound it wont be able to absorb water or nutes.

i would suggest topping the tomatoes back to the level of the screen. it will create a more even canopy and slow them down a bit, allowing your ladies to catch up. save the tops and propagate them. its important to keep the ends of the cuttings in water until you stick them in rock wool, the capillaries draw in water so fast that they will get an embolism quicker than weed will. use a gel hormone, i have never had much success with liquids. the gel helps prevent embolism. im not sure how the light schedule will effect the tomatoes. when i grow mine under lights i keep them on an 16/8 schedule. i suspect that it will make the plant think that its fall and time to put up or shut up. i dont use canna nutes so im unfamiliar with their products, but tomatoes produce a large amount of stems and leaves, that means they need more nitrogen throughout their life. until the fruit begins to swell give them a more balanced fertilizer, something with like 2-1-1 ratio, then as the fruit swells bump up the N-P-K a bit and go with a 3-2-2 ratio. i dont usually feed much more than a 8-4-4, but some people push their plants more. you can drop the nitrogen level a bit once the plant is fruiting heavily, but dont cut it out completely. i also find tomatoes LOVE a carbohydrate booster. i dont know how well they work in hydro but i like to use corn syrup solids, i can get it at the local brew store for like $1 for 1.5oz, i only use 1/8tsp to 1/4tsp per gallon so the stuff lasts a long time. with the size of those tomatoes, you should really consider restarting them, especially if you have more than 2 weeks before switching the photoperiod. what does the root ball of the tomato look like? they are probably an indeterminate hybrid and will continue to fruit as long as conditions are favorable. by starting with cuttings you wont have to wait for them to mature and they they can start fruiting at a much smaller size.
Click to expand...
Is there much difference between using a Smart-Pot and an Air-Pot?? they both sound like they do the same thing? I may use one of each cos I will eventually need to re-pot my Lavender plant/seedlings too. Is there anything visable I would notice if the roots are/do become root bound? - STELTHY :leaf:
 
stelthy

stelthy

Well-Known Member
littlegrower2004 said:
stelthy- im going to have to disagree with the group on this one and say that you wont need a larger pot to flower. the way that plant has grown, i dont think it has anywhere near filled that pot with roots to the point of being root bound. ive seen FDD2BLK use a pot about that same size outdoor and got a monster plant with moster bud. just cause it was outdoor doesnt mean the roots could handle being in a smaller pot, therefore IMO a plant doesnt need a giant area for roots to form. consider the size of your hydro buckets, as long as there is good air flow and nute exchange from the soil then you should be good to go. when i mentioned defoliating, it was to all the plants. whenever there is major shading by fan leaves, you can remove the leaves and allow for the nodes to be in full light. most growers disagree with removing leaves but in my experience and from what ive seen, it does help increase growth rate and doesnt harm the plant. there is a number of threads on different sites, like icmag, that explain this in detail and show results. i just recently saw Las Fingerez of the 600club finish his plant in one of those air pots with very nice looking results. maybe you can swing in over there and ask him a few details about the pot and its use. smart pots are another way to go like SCAA mentioned.
Click to expand...
I was thinking; surely I cant need a bigger pot for my Strawberry Thai just yet.. I mean I saw what some dude on here did with a Party-Cup grow and his plant was way bigger and had a hench cola sitting on it? lol ?

You say if an area is being blocked for light by a fan leaf its ok to remove it!? I could do this but am a bit reluctant as those big ol leaves help the plant pack on a lot of growth, especially as early into the grow as this. Do you think I could get away with snipping the fan leaf fingers in half? This could kill two birds with one stone..Or do you think it would stress her and be more hassle than its worth?

I'll look into asking those peeps my questions too, Cheers dude - STELTHY :leaf:
 
stelthy

stelthy

Well-Known Member
littlegrower2004 said:
stelthy- im going to have to disagree with the group on this one and say that you wont need a larger pot to flower. the way that plant has grown, i dont think it has anywhere near filled that pot with roots to the point of being root bound. ive seen FDD2BLK use a pot about that same size outdoor and got a monster plant with moster bud. just cause it was outdoor doesnt mean the roots could handle being in a smaller pot, therefore IMO a plant doesnt need a giant area for roots to form. consider the size of your hydro buckets, as long as there is good air flow and nute exchange from the soil then you should be good to go. when i mentioned defoliating, it was to all the plants. whenever there is major shading by fan leaves, you can remove the leaves and allow for the nodes to be in full light. most growers disagree with removing leaves but in my experience and from what ive seen, it does help increase growth rate and doesnt harm the plant. there is a number of threads on different sites, like icmag, that explain this in detail and show results. i just recently saw Las Fingerez of the 600club finish his plant in one of those air pots with very nice looking results. maybe you can swing in over there and ask him a few details about the pot and its use. smart pots are another way to go like SCAA mentioned.
Click to expand...
I was thinking; surely I cant need a bigger pot for my Strawberry Thai just yet.. I mean I saw what some dude on here did with a Party-Cup grow and his plant was way bigger and had a hench cola sitting on it? lol ?

You say if an area is being blocked for light by a fan leaf its ok to remove it!? I could do this but am a bit reluctant as those big ol leaves help the plant pack on a lot of growth, especially as early into the grow as this. Do you think I could get away with snipping the fan leaf fingers in half? This could kill two birds with one stone..Or do you think it would stress her and be more hassle than its worth?

I'll look into asking those peeps my questions too, Cheers dude - STELTHY :leaf:
 
littlegrower2004

littlegrower2004

Well-Known Member
jsgamber said:
If you are bumping up to the 400w your light penetration will be much greater. Think about not trimming anything that can see light even if it's reflected light from your walls. If a leaf stays green, then it is producing food! Just my $0.02.

But other than my opinion on light, my other opinion is you are kicking butt! :D I think trimming back the tomato is probably a good idea. We have tomatoes growing outside and no matter how much you whack them down, they keep growing! This will let you keep your light hood down closer. That tomato plant should be just fine!
Click to expand...
in no way did i mean that the leaves were useless. i agree 100% a green leaf is a healthy leaf doing its job. when you have a plant growing with multiple leaves, its a common technique to remove excess foliage and allow for growth. stelthy mentioned switching to 400watt in flower so for now defoliating will remove all shade seen on the GWS. the spreading of branches by the screen on the Strawberry Thai is basically using same idea of increasing light to lower nodes that normally are shaded.


STELTHY- by the looks of the pic of the GWS some lower nodes are definetely shaded. exactly as you said, if its being blocked its ok to remove whats causing the blockage. the leaves do help the plant but light on the areas that need to grow is more important. i would try to stay away from cutting them in half but it may be possible, just havent tried.
 
stelthy

stelthy

Well-Known Member
jsgamber said:
If you are bumping up to the 400w your light penetration will be much greater. Think about not trimming anything that can see light even if it's reflected light from your walls. If a leaf stays green, then it is producing food! Just my $0.02.

But other than my opinion on light, my other opinion is you are kicking butt! :D I think trimming back the tomato is probably a good idea. We have tomatoes growing outside and no matter how much you whack them down, they keep growing! This will let you keep your light hood down closer. That tomato plant should be just fine!
Click to expand...
I am thinking this is right :) cos also at this stage everything is growing quickly and so I can raise my reflector and in doing so along with upping my lamp from a 250 to a 400 the light will be more widely spread and as you said the penetration will be that more intense that even the top of my cab will be lit due to the reflectivity of my Mylar walls+ceiling (that are cleaned daily), and so the tall ass'd Tomato plants will still get light delivered to their leaves even if its at a reduced rate/intensity from the vegetation below, So I think Ill let them keep growing for now minus any more pruning, and deal with the issues as and when they arise :)

Anyhow glad your liking my results so far :) I am still in 2 minds whether to re-pot my S.T. I'll have a look on E-Bay n see what deals I can find on AIR & SMART pots - STELTHY :leaf:
 
stelthy

stelthy

Well-Known Member
littlegrower2004 said:
in no way did i mean that the leaves were useless. i agree 100% a green leaf is a healthy leaf doing its job. when you have a plant growing with multiple leaves, its a common technique to remove excess foliage and allow for growth. stelthy mentioned switching to 400watt in flower so for now defoliating will remove all shade seen on the GWS. the spreading of branches by the screen on the Strawberry Thai is basically using same idea of increasing light to lower nodes that normally are shaded.


STELTHY- by the looks of the pic of the GWS some lower nodes are definetely shaded. exactly as you said, if its being blocked its ok to remove whats causing the blockage. the leaves do help the plant but light on the areas that need to grow is more important. i would try to stay away from cutting them in half but it may be possible, just havent tried.
Click to expand...
Ok I'll take your advice and remove just the one top Fan leaf on the left hand side to allow the 250W MH lamp to reach the lower leaves etc.. and when I switch to the 400W HPS I should have less to zero coverage problems and the plant should still be healthy and unstressed. Ps/ I wont cut the fan leaves inhalf.. it was just an idea, I'll let someone else try it 1st lol :) - STELTHY :leaf:
 
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