supercritical co2 extraction - diy community?

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Sorry just being a smart ass
Co2 extracts wax, fat, lipids and a little bit of oil. Some of it containing thc!
Theres a reason everyone believes co2 is the best extraction method but that does not make it true. Its just all about the money
 

ktmac20

Well-Known Member
No worries as I can be a smart ass at times too...I actually made a snarky smart ass response with a simple "no..." in the "wet or dry trim" thread, tho no one called me out and now the thread is 3 pages! LOL

I understand that CO2 does extract the wax's, fats, lipids, etc. but that is what winterizing is for a final finish...Now the only way I understand for that to happen is a second process with a rotovap or another item like that with alcohol either food grade or 190 proof!

Thanks for answering...I really prefer CO2 oil but the process is complicated!

Cheers
 

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Use et from the beggining. No need to defat or wax because there isnt any.
Or any polar solvent really.

Extraction with co2 is nothing new. It was being used to make other, non cannabis related products long before the California medical Marijuana act changed how we use and understand cannabis forever.some really smart people saw an open door to put their technology to work and grab a big slice of this multi billion dollar industry. They had a lucritive answer for what to do with these mountains of excess trim that were now being produced and invested much interest into convincing the market that non poloar supercritical extraction and the fatty waxy byproduct their machines spewed out like ice cream wad the best, no the only way to extract cannabis concentrate. Since this is to expensive for the do it yourselfer to afford they were more than happy to process your trim, for a fee. In come the butane distributors but thats another story.

look at this problem as if you didnt have the internet. Its mostly bad info being perpetuated by the ignorant .

When I first was asked to extract from cannabis i did not have google. Lol, anyone remember bulliten board systems? Probably not. Im old

I had to look at it like any other chemist or pharmacist would have for centuries before me.

What do you want to extract?whats the paitent need? Test and analyze the sample. How much of what is in there?
There is tons of compounds and alkaloids in that amazing plant, which ones do you want?
I like thc terpenes cbd cbc myself.Whats the polarities of these molecules i want?
Whats the stuff i don't want to extract look like on a molecular leval?
Now im ready to choose a solvent and method. While looking at the solvent properties table i have taped on my wall, and now in my brain, I'm probably going to steer away from the non or low polarity solutions as my patient does not like to consume candles but rather, asked for a strong concentrate of thc and terpene oils. Going to have to move up the scale a bit. Theres always good ol h20 in liquid or steam form at the top.
Of couse availability of solvents their toxicity and my equipment capabilities will have to factor in. Perhaps i dont want to use a solvent at all. People have been making cannabis concentrates for centuries numerous ways that use no solvents and simple technology. Most of them would produce a product that fits the order.
But maybe I was given specific percentages of certain compounds that had to be in this concentrate. Maybe the age old rosin pressing trick just wont give the paintent the milligrams thc they require
 

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
I know I answered nothing for you. Sorry.
I like to teach by asking questions
Hopefully i inspire you to a mind opening journey
 

ktmac20

Well-Known Member
Hahaha...as I said in my previous post..."the process is complicated" and in your "teaching style" of asking questions you just overwhelmed me with molecular biology, solvent properties etc...it really is a complicated and scientific process...

I read on here where someone speculated at some point someone will develop a machine that will take the whole plant and process it as a whole...

Does the process have to be so complicated, in your opinion?

cheers
 

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Yes ive found many people doing this, some proclaiming themselves experts are surprised to learn that this is real organic chemistry they are dabbling in with a very narrow minded view.
"Wow dude like a mad scientist and shit, yeah! Can i get a lab coat?"
Everyone on the internet is seeking out step by step how to instructions for the best way to do things and where to buy everything you need. and in most cases its a fantastic resource. In this case though it is not. Why?Propriety i suppose, money. There is a huge industry now in selling these at home closed loop systems and in leasing them and in selling butane labled as food grade and the "vacuum purge chamber" that burst into the american lexicon a decade or so ago. These guys have the step by step turn key systems the people want. God forbid they have to learn something or read a book.because if they did they might figure what a load of crap they bought into.


Back on point, yes you would have to defat your wax if you want a product that contains more than 20-30% thc and less than 70% wax. Co2 really dosnt bring along alot of terp either. People have come up with all kinds of ways to do this. Id do it by not extracting it to begin with but say i learned everything from a GED drop out on you tube and bought a wax maker.
Yes ethanol would be a good option. Absolute if you can make it
Removal in a rotovap would work great or any vacuum distillation aparatus really. You could boil it off on your stove top if you want but the purpose of the vacuum is to reduce pressure and lower boiling points thus protecting volitile compounds from decomposing. Like terpenes. A rotovap is like the caddilac of vacuum distillation. Turn the key and go. It does not require vast knowledge to operate.but maybe a little to understand whats happening in that fangdangled contraption . They are widley used in the cullinary industry. I would like to have one in my kitchen actually. If its within your means go for it
 

ktmac20

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the replies...and I do.understand what you are saying and I would actually like to understand the actual processes going on within the whole supercritical extraction and the winterization with the rotovap or other like equipment !

There are not alot, if any processors that want to show and tell...and I am in a legal state...it's almost like the "wizard" behind the curtain !

cheers
 

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Thats because the people actually doing this dont frequent these forums or make you tube videos. Proprietary stuff

In a nutshell, what makes a supercritical extraction is time temperature pressure flow rate and such. All of those are super critical :lol:
It requires these fancy sytems to monitor maintain and adjust these things. Beyond that its the same principle as any other extraction. Your alkaloids are soluble and blah blah blah

Study the 4 corner stones of organic chemistry. Distillation filtration extraction recrystalizeation. Zubrick is a must read. Thats going to be your new bible.
It is totally possible to gain a working knowledge of all this with some study. Not everyone working in comercial industrial laboratory has a phd or undergrad. Learn about how other things are made through chemistry. It will help you understand cannabis even better. Its not the only thing being extracted and winterized and rotovaped. Who knows you may get so into it that you forget all about cannabis and discover natures other wonderful alkaloids that are all around us
 

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Zubrick is a interesting guy. Hes always right. Get you a hard copy. I have one under my bed.like 1994 eddition.
Zubrick organic chemistry lab survival guide
Another brilliant mind and great read
Alexander "sasha" shulgin
Tikal and pikal
He may be for the more advanced though
 

Dr.Amber Trichome

Well-Known Member
I love the smooth clean high of co2 0il. Even with top of the line O.pen Vape craft reserve I can't taste any flavors. I just bought the 2.0 O. Pen Vape and I am very pleased with it. The best oil I have had to date is from a company in WA state , in this photo in my next post. I highly recommend checking out there web site and looking at the insanely complicated extraction rig they use. Then you will understand .
http://www.optimumextracts.com/process-1.html
 
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ktmac20

Well-Known Member
Dr. Amber....Too bad you aren't in a legal state...I assume you aren't! There are several Grower/Processor's here using the "insanely complicated extraction rig" that you mention! One that I really like and they have great flavors is Cedar Creek Cannabis....

I also like and prefer the Co2 oil pens...Such a smooth draw,clean easy high and so convenient. The only draw back is that the oil will age, darken up and stiffen up. I use a cartridge sold by http://nectar-craft.myshopify.com/ They are a glass and metal cartridge, so you can lightly warm your oil in the cartridge with a flame for a smoother flow if it stiffens up!

Cheers
 

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
You can disolve about any extract oil in peg oil. Co2 oil dose not taste as terpy as say and ethanol extract.
 

Dr.Amber Trichome

Well-Known Member
ktmac20, Howdy! i am in Oregon actually. Thanks for the tips on Cedar Creek and Nectar. It appears that greenhead shop in Vancouver Wa might have Nectar products. Im headed up to Vancouver in a couple weeks so might pick that up.

The O.Pen Vape battery is very inexpensive at 35 dollars. It has 5 voltage settings which is fantastic! I find that the smller mg oil cartridges need a higher temp, volt to get hot and the larger 1 mg is good on the lower voltage settings. Another great feature with that battery is that it has a heating control. After you set your voltage, you press the clicker and it heats the oil for a few seconds before you pull on it. I havent had a problem with hardening darkening oil with age yet.
 

ktmac20

Well-Known Member
It's nice living in a "legal" state eh! New Vansterdam and Greenhead carry Nectar products! I don't really care for Nectar's CO2 oils as they dilute it slightly with coconut oil and I can taste the coconut oil in the finish upon exhale, the coconut does give the vape a smooth feel in the mouth tho!

I emailed Andrew at Nectar, back in March and gave him some feedback on the coconut oil, he said they may just ditch the coconut oil additive!

The Herbery here in Vancouver carries Cedar Creek Cannabis products, Cedar Creek has a CO2 oil called "Peacemaker" which is a hybrid X and a 1:1 THC-CBD and the Herbery carries it in a syringe to fill your own carts! Which is perfect for the Nectar style glass cart!

Cheers
 

Dr.Amber Trichome

Well-Known Member
Thanks KTmac20. I usually go to Main Street MJ. They have never done me wrong.
The Optimum Pure Co2 oils that I got there are fabulous. Cherry Pie and LA Confidential.
That Peacemaker at Herbery sounds great. I will check them out too!
But you see that Main St MJ battery. Its great when it is fully charged, but when it is not, and i hit it it is very very toxic.

There is something about hitting the oil when its not completely heated that seems real toxic. I have gotten heart palps from it.
That Main Street mJ battery in the picture was only 15 bucks and has no heating settings or battery check. Plus when you do charge it up it takes a really long time. Once fully charged its very hot and I have had some toxic fumes emitted with a Golden Cartridge after screwing it into after a charge. Can take over 2hours to charge.. that is a long time to sit and wait for the light to turn green. The O.Pen Vape battery charges in 20 minutes.:-P
DSCN0157.JPG
 

ktmac20

Well-Known Member
I will have to look at the adjustable O-pen battery! I know that O-pen was actually one of the very first CO2 cartridge vape developers...

The Nectar battery isn't adjustable but is does charge fast and yiu can turn it off and on...

I also understand that there are some batteries that have differing voltage and ohms which also have an affect on the oil vapor!

With that said...we should start our own thread in this section as we have sidetracked this one...not really on point!

Apologies to the OP for the Hijack ! :peace:
 
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