Switching HPS to LED

CoB_nUt

CoB_nUt

Well-Known Member
ChiefRunningPhist said:
Ya, @budman410 the HLG 132 should work. They have the LM301b which is one of the top 3 chips made. 4/$135 isn't bad! I'd go with (8 ) per 4x 4. [75w × 8 = 600w], or what your target was for the 4x 4. (1) 600h-36 will power (8 ) boards if you wire them in parallel. You would need (2) of the 600w drivers for (2) 4x 4 rooms or (16) panels total.

Like what @CoB_nUt said, you could just throw some angle aluminum together for a frame. He may have some pics to show from previous builds but a quick search and you can see.
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Here's a link to my qb build thread..pics are in it. Running 440 watts of qb120's in a 3x3 tent. The last few pages show the growth and oenetration of the qb's nice thick buds.https://www.rollitup.org/t/need-a-lil-qb-rig-design-help.975453/page-2
 
ChiefRunningPhist

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
budman410 said:
Ok so essentially since I’ve been running 600hps I could do 4-6 boards to equate to a 600hps. I know it wouldn’t be the same but in theory. One of my main concerns is wattage usage along with heat
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Yep, that'd be pretty comparable. (3) 4packs and you'd have (6) panels in each 4x 4. In that case I would go with the 600h 36's over a 480h 36. It'd allow you to be expandable to (1) more 4pack of panels, or (8 ) each 4x 4.
 
Shaggn

Shaggn

Well-Known Member
Switch to led!!! Build a cob unit/qb boards asap. You will never go back!!! Worst case go cmh!! You'll be glad you did. Yes, it costs up front but no more bulb costs. No heat issues as long as you do your research and do a proper build for your gro space. Peace!!
 
OneHitDone

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
Shaggn said:
Switch to led!!! Build a cob unit/qb boards asap. You will never go back!!! Worst case go cmh!! You'll be glad you did. Yes, it costs up front but no more bulb costs. No heat issues as long as you do your research and do a proper build for your gro space. Peace!!
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Like no bulb changes EVER??? It's is a one time purchase that will last forever?
 
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budman410

Well-Known Member
Ok so impatience got the best of me and with so much information I have to digest, I wanted a full set that I can see and build hands on while I source the parts for my build.https://m.alibaba.com/product/60827075916/MARCH-EXPO-qb-288-quantum-board.html?s=p&spm=a2706.wap_new_search.1998817009.5.1bba284fa3Ltbw
I’m still ordering the 132 boards I want to compare heat, light intensity, and quality to the 288.

Power supply mall, has Meanwell HLG-240H-36B for 60. Should I get 2?. I brought one 4 pack of 4K 132 and 2 4packs of 132 v2. The 4K will be for my mothers on a 3x3 table
 
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ChiefRunningPhist

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
QB132...
75w ÷ 36v ~2.1A

240h-36b...
240w ÷ 36v ~6.7A

320h-36b...
320w ÷ 36v ~8.9A


If you want to be able to max your boards out, I'd go with a 320h-36b per (4) boards. Or a 600h-36b for (8 ) boards.

If you use a 240h per (4) boards you will only be able to push 1.675A (6.7A ÷ 4 = 1.675A) per board even though they are rated up to 2.1A.

***
"b" style drivers require an additional POT or aftermarket dimmer to adjust current output or LED brightness, "a" style drivers have built in POTs that don't require aftermarket dimmers ect to adjust current output or LED brightness.

600h-36a..
Built-in POT.

600h-36b..
Needs afternarket POT.
 
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budman410

Well-Known Member
ChiefRunningPhist said:
QB132...
75w ÷ 36v ~2.1A

240h-36b...
240w ÷ 36v ~6.7A

320h-36b...
320w ÷ 36v ~8.9A


If you want to be able to max your boards out, I'd go with a 320h-36b per (4) boards. Or a 600h-36b for (8 ) boards.

If you use a 240h per (4) boards you will only be able to push 1.675A (6.7A ÷ 4 = 1.675A) per board even though they are rated up to 2.1A.

***
"b" style drivers require an additional POT or aftermarket dimmer to adjust current output or LED brightness, "a" style drivers have built in POTs that don't require aftermarket dimmers ect to adjust current output or LED brightness.

600h-36a..
Built-in POT.

600h-36b..
Needs afternarket POT.
Click to expand...
Ok guess I need to see about changing my order. I’ll keep one and get an aftermarket dimmer for the veg 4K and see if I can get a 600h driver for the 8 boards
 
ChiefRunningPhist

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
budman410 said:
Ok guess I need to see about changing my order. I’ll keep one and get an aftermarket dimmer for the veg 4K and see if I can get a 600h driver for the 8 boards
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That's what I'd do. 240h's will run fine. You just will be limited to maxes of 60w/board (when they are rated for 75). I bought my QBs off BABA too but bought my own driver as they like to supply the 480s instead of the 600s for their 4packs. I've heard good things about the HLG boards (and they were the inventor of QBs) so I think you'll be pleased with both purchases.
 
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budman410

Well-Known Member
ChiefRunningPhist said:
That's what I'd do. 240h's will run fine. You just will be limited to maxes of 60w/board (when they are rated for 75). I bought my QBs off BABA too but bought my own driver as they like to supply the 480s instead of the 600s for their 4packs. I've heard good things about the HLG boards (and they were the inventor of QBs) so I think you'll be pleased with both purchases.
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Considering that the only plants that will be in a tent is the ones in veg and they will be using lower powered boards. When I’m ready to scale up would it be preferable to just go with 288s and up. From what I’m reading the heat sink is just some metal they are mounted on. With passive cooling and maybe the Occasional need for AC could 5-7 4x4 tables with higher powered boards create a significant amount of heat to where I would need constant AC
 
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budman410

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
Fuck yes. You might be going absolutely nuts dude. Have you slept on your decision yet?
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LOL it’s rare I read all over the net and on these forums and see all good shit. I haven’t been looking at LEDs so I’m completely out of the loop with how far they have come. Before they couldn’t compare to hps at all and if they was close you would be spending 3-4 grand.
I got a good couple months till I decide and test out these boards. I’m switching most of my strains over so I’m getting my moms up to size now only have 2 tables in flower right now
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
budman410 said:
LOL it’s rare I read all over the net and on these forums and see all good shit. I haven’t been looking at LEDs so I’m completely out of the loop with how far they have come. Before they couldn’t compare to hps at all and if they was close you would be spending 3-4 grand
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But you are going just to try 1 area first right, then if you like the quality decide then? Because you are talking 7 4x4 areas.
 
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budman410

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
But you are going just to try 1 area first right, then if you like the quality decide then? Because you are talking 7 4x4 areas.
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Ofcourse, but the thought of not walking pass a heat wave sounds so good. But in reality the more watts thats put out heat will follow. I’ll relax and get back to reading all this data feel like I’m back in college
 
ChiefRunningPhist

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
budman410 said:
Considering that the only plants that will be in a tent is the ones in veg and they will be using lower powered boards. When I’m ready to scale up would it be preferable to just go with 288s and up. From what I’m reading the heat sink is just some metal they are mounted on. With passive cooling and maybe the Occasional need for AC could 5-7 4x4 tables with higher powered boards create a significant amount of heat to where I would need constant AC
Click to expand...
It depends on how hot the actual QB will level off at, and how quickly you exhaust your area. I know, super vague answer lol..

To give some reference, I have QBs with CPU fans ontop which I run at 142w (the QBs). But with the fans the actual QB never gets over 110f.

The things that will heat up the grow will be anything with a surface temperature that is greater than what the ambient temperature is. How great the delta between the ambient temp and the thing transferring thermal energy, will be how fast the area will heat up.

At 570w or (4) QB304+'s run @ 142w each I can pretty much control the ambient with exhausting the 4× 4 tent. If you use CPU fans and more boards than me, ie more surface area for the same wattage, your boards would run even cooler and you would not have to exhaust as much. Many that use LED increase RH as they seem to find it helps mitigate certain LED based issues. I'm not going to tell you I know what is going on exactly because I don't lol but with lower operating temps you will have an easier time maintaining RH.

To know how much you'd have to run your AC you'd have to know your area wall insulation factor, your exhausting rates, the delta between components and ambient the RH blah blah blah people will tell you a watt is a watt and that is right, but thermal mgmt is more complicated and has a lot to do with rates. So without droning on longer I'd have an AC ready but the only way to know is to test.

Ya I'd personally go with a higher chip count per board, but it's personal preference. More chips is going to have individual chip operate with less "droop" (more effecient) and less chips is going to be operated in a less dense configuration, or more surface area per watt, so it helps offset the high current used.

I'm cheap so I bought fans instead of more panels and beefed up the thermal mgmt...
USER_SCOPED_TEMP_DATA_MSGR_PHOTO_FOR_UPLOAD_1547556522341.jpg_1547556567798.jpeg

Plug for light, plug for fans, "a" style driver with ammeter for better dimming control, cords are 16ga, 16ft extension ($1.57) so I can keep hot drivers outside tent...
(in this pic I still need to add tape so there's no exposed wires)
USER_SCOPED_TEMP_DATA_MSGR_PHOTO_FOR_UPLOAD_1549944173609.jpg_1549944175839.jpeg

Here are the fans (4/board - 7cm×7cm), I switched to a bigger 2A driver (above) instead of the 1A pictured, so it only runs half power, or much cooler..
0114190152~3.jpg
 
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OneHitDone

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
Fuck yes. You might be going absolutely nuts dude. Have you slept on your decision yet?
Click to expand...
So mongo, you are a long time member of Riu and have been dabbling in led for a bit - what is your impression of the tech with where it is and what you have tried?
It's interesting to see some of the early implementers such as @Positivity who clearly did his research on lighting and led to an extent far beyond what I have seen done here recently come back swearing off led as inferior?

Then of course the fan boys all point to GML but the consensus from those who grow some serious dank that take a look at this garden seem to agree 7 out of 10 that his plants are a stressed the fuck out hot mess and by no means a poster child grow. So? o_O
 
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budman410

Well-Known Member
ChiefRunningPhist said:
It depends on how hot the actual QB will level off at, and how quickly you exhaust your area. I know, super vague answer lol..

To give some reference, I have QBs with CPU fans ontop which I run at 142w (the QBs). But with the fans the actual QB never gets over 110f.

The things that will heat up the grow will be anything with a surface temperature that is greater than what the ambient temperature is. How great the delta between the ambient temp and the thing transferring thermal energy, will be how fast the area will heat up.

At 570w or (4) QB304+'s run @ 142w each I can pretty much control the ambient with exhausting the 4× 4 tent. If you use CPU fans and more boards than me, ie more surface area for the same wattage, your boards would run even cooler and you would not have to exhaust as much. Many that use LED increase RH as they seem to find it helps mitigate certain LED based issues. I'm not going to tell you I know what is going on exactly because I don't lol but with lower operating temps you will have an easier time maintaining RH.

To know how much you'd have to run your AC you'd have to know your area wall insulation factor, your exhausting rates, the delta between components and ambient the RH blah blah blah people will tell you a watt is a watt and that is right, but thermal mgmt is more complicated and has a lot to do with rates. So without droning on longer I'd have an AC ready but the only way to know is to test.

Ya I'd personally go with a higher chip count per board, but it's personal preference. More chips is going to have individual chip operate with less "droop" (more effecient) and less chips is going to be operated in a less dense configuration, or more surface area per watt, so it helps offset the high current used.

I'm cheap so I bought fans instead of more panels and beefed up the thermal mgmt...
View attachment 4309391

Plug for light, plug for fans, "a" style driver with ammeter for better dimming control, cords are 16ga, 16ft extension ($1.57) so I can keep hot drivers outside tent...
(in this pic I still need to add tape so there's no exposed wires)
View attachment 4309390

Here are the fans (4/board - 7cm×7cm), I switched to a bigger 2A driver (above) instead of the 1A pictured, so it only runs half power, or much cooler..
View attachment 4309392
Click to expand...
Ok so because the wattage is distributed between more panels each panel would use be cooler if you run more panels at a higher wattage. So getting the highest wattage driver with let’s say a 304 board, if I want them to run cooler but still max out the driver capabilities I would need to add more boards. So in my situation where it’s a open area and focused on yield. What’s the biggest driver and boards to use yet still be efficient with wattage.
 
ChiefRunningPhist

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
budman410 said:
Ok so because the wattage is distributed between more panels each panel would use be cooler if you run more panels at a higher wattage. So getting the highest wattage driver with let’s say a 304 board, if I want them to run cooler but still max out the driver capabilities I would need to add more boards. So in my situation where it’s a open area and focused on yield. What’s the biggest driver and boards to use yet still be efficient with wattage.
Click to expand...

I'd say (8 ) per 4x 4 using 600w of driver, whether that's (2) 320s or (1) 600 will depend on what QBs you go with. (8 ) 288s will be less chips than (8 ) 336's so the 336's would run cooler than the 288's, more chips but same wattage = cooler tech. I'd go with the highest chip count QB and use (8 ) per 4x 4, if you're trying to maximize effeciency.

You'd want the same 600ish watts per the 4× 4 but the way you'd distribute it would be different.
 
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