The chase for shatter...

Hey guys I've been messing around with some bho extractions but cant seem to get it right. Its too sappy and I think I know the reason why but I'm not sure. Can you guys help out?

My Steps.
Shoved a bunch of trim into a mason jar.
Extracted butane
Dumped butane into mason jar full of trim
Let sit for about 2-3 mins
Dumped into a Pyrex pan
Sat on a griddle at 110 for about 30 mins (still gooey or sappy)
Scraped it when it was still sappy.
Vac'ed it for over night at 90-110 and looked GREAT.
Tried to flip it and its garbage, just messy goo everywhere.
Left it in the chamber for another 8 hours and turned to wax. (uploaded picture)

I got pissed and got the wax and threw it on parchment paper and heat gunned it to melt and threw it back in the vac over night.

Now its not gooey but its still not shatter, more or less pull and snap. If you run the edge on a table it comes off the parchment but its not shatter... I'm chasing rock hard glass shatter at room temp!

My next run Idea's:
Keep vac/griddle temps where they are
Dry the hell outta the trim,
Freeze the trim before blasting
Leave extract in Pyrex dish till its almost rock hard
Dont scrape from pyrex dish and just throw the whole pyrex dish into the vac and vac it for like 3 days.

Any thoughts guys? I've been researching a lot about making shatter thats like glass but I just cant seem to get the research to work with me. I know shatter is the first stage and then it goes to wax/butter/oil, I cant seem to get the first stage which is shatter. Honey comb, wax, butter, is all easily done for me but just not SHATTER. Any tips you would like to add before I try again? I hear people go from blasting to dabbing shatter in three hours which is blowing my fucking mind cause this shit is killing me.

Wow your process was screwed from the get go. Why put butane and rubbing alcohol together? the mixture has produced some off results. My suggestion is you don't use butane and alcohol at the same time. Just pick one to stay consistent.

First of all if you use butane, pour everclear in 95 percent which is 190 proof... not ISO over the butane mixture, let it mix thoroughly. It should be a brown or tan and no clumps or floating crap. You strain this several times through coffee filters. Others use special filters that work along tubing but that's because they have a system to it and most likely a larger set up. After the filtering process you can set it out to evaporate in plain open air or slowly warm it. You need to keep your mixture that you are filtering cold so freeze it before filtering then set it in the freezer again to filter a second time. Make sure the vessel you use the second time is not the same one. Particles mean fuck up at this stage. Depending on your yield I would go find one of those Teflon silicone mats. One thing about these that is a misconception is people want to directly blast onto these mats but that's not what it's for. When your product is at the filtered stage you can let it harden on some parchment then smooth it out on the silicone sheet to further purge it. I've spread my oil out so thin on this sheeting that it's made perfect shatter.

GreenStick85 said:

Wow your process was screwed from the get go. Why put butane and rubbing alcohol together? the mixture has produced some off results. My suggestion is you don't use butane and alcohol at the same time. Just pick one to stay consistent.

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Hey man thanks for your reply, I think that you mis read something somewhere though! I never use alcohol and butane together! But I got it to be shatter finally! A bit of a learning process but its do able!

JungleTime said:

Hey man thanks for your reply, I think that you mis read something somewhere though! I never use alcohol and butane together! But I got it to be shatter finally! A bit of a learning process but its do able!

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Oh ok you said you poured all of this so I just didn't see any separation of that in the process. My bad
Anyways my process what I did before was I blasted, collected then I dissolved in 150 proof everclear and then filtered a couple times. I don't recommend it because of the water content in it so grab 190 proof if possible or any grain alcohol higher than 75 percent. This prevents Azeotrophy which probably is the reason for your stuff being liquidy. The high alcohol will allow the water to evaporate at a similar rate of the alcohol so you're not left with this extra water that can be harmful to your hash(mold and just doesn't make it appealing). I think you're off to a great start and you're able to take better steps than what I did by vac purging.
The bigger notion of this is the alcohol does the purging for you in a sense. I had my hash turn to a hard glue like substance when it dried so it was easy to manipulate but the outcome wasn't desired. So the winterizing or everclear in the mix is what gets it done. Some strains just won't do this well, some are runnier than others and that's the bottom line. Keep experimenting and find a strain that is giving you that consistent result and go from there

JungleTime said:

Hey guys I've been messing around with some bho extractions but cant seem to get it right. Its too sappy and I think I know the reason why but I'm not sure. Can you guys help out?

My Steps.
Shoved a bunch of trim into a mason jar.
Extracted butane
Dumped butane into mason jar full of trim
Let sit for about 2-3 mins
Dumped into a Pyrex pan
Sat on a griddle at 110 for about 30 mins (still gooey or sappy)
Scraped it when it was still sappy.
Vac'ed it for over night at 90-110 and looked GREAT.
Tried to flip it and its garbage, just messy goo everywhere.
Left it in the chamber for another 8 hours and turned to wax. (uploaded picture)

I got pissed and got the wax and threw it on parchment paper and heat gunned it to melt and threw it back in the vac over night.

Now its not gooey but its still not shatter, more or less pull and snap. If you run the edge on a table it comes off the parchment but its not shatter... I'm chasing rock hard glass shatter at room temp!

My next run Idea's:
Keep vac/griddle temps where they are
Dry the hell outta the trim,
Freeze the trim before blasting
Leave extract in Pyrex dish till its almost rock hard
Dont scrape from pyrex dish and just throw the whole pyrex dish into the vac and vac it for like 3 days.

Any thoughts guys? I've been researching a lot about making shatter thats like glass but I just cant seem to get the research to work with me. I know shatter is the first stage and then it goes to wax/butter/oil, I cant seem to get the first stage which is shatter. Honey comb, wax, butter, is all easily done for me but just not SHATTER. Any tips you would like to add before I try again? I hear people go from blasting to dabbing shatter in three hours which is blowing my fucking mind cause this shit is killing me.

Click to expand...

If you want shatter, you need to start with carboxylic acid, because once decarboxylated, it isn't as stiff.

You need to remove most of the water and along with it, the monoterpenes to optimize its brittleness. Both soften it and make it pull and snap to goopy.

It needs to be fully purged of solvent.

It also helps if it is low in plant wax content, which brings us to butane temperature. A three minute soak in ambient butane (~31F from evaporation), ostensibly will be heavy in plant waxes, so a good place to start would be with lower temperatures or shorter time.

GreenStick85 said:

First of all if you use butane, pour everclear in 95 percent which is 190 proof... not ISO over the butane mixture, let it mix thoroughly. It should be a brown or tan and no clumps or floating crap. You strain this several times through coffee filters. Others use special filters that work along tubing but that's because they have a system to it and most likely a larger set up. After the filtering process you can set it out to evaporate in plain open air or slowly warm it. You need to keep your mixture that you are filtering cold so freeze it before filtering then set it in the freezer again to filter a second time. Make sure the vessel you use the second time is not the same one. Particles mean fuck up at this stage. Depending on your yield I would go find one of those Teflon silicone mats. One thing about these that is a misconception is people want to directly blast onto these mats but that's not what it's for. When your product is at the filtered stage you can let it harden on some parchment then smooth it out on the silicone sheet to further purge it. I've spread my oil out so thin on this sheeting that it's made perfect shatter.

Click to expand...

He can definitely use ISO over everclear. Use food grade iso, 99.9%. All the solvent does is give the butane an easier bond to evaporate with alon with moisture. Personally I dewax with 99.9% iso.

Fadedawg said:

If you want shatter, you need to start with carboxylic acid, because once decarboxylated, it isn't as stiff.

You need to remove most of the water and along with it, the monoterpenes to optimize its brittleness. Both soften it and make it pull and snap to goopy.

It needs to be fully purged of solvent.

It also helps if it is low in plant wax content, which brings us to butane temperature. A three minute soak in ambient butane (~31F from evaporation), ostensibly will be heavy in plant waxes, so a good place to start would be with lower temperatures or shorter time.

Click to expand...

Good info here. Be careful pulling temps towards the upper 110s and low 120s unless you want crumble, but that's a whole other method. I blast my stuff open end currently, 1 can per oz pure n-butane. I whip until it's nice and purged on the mat set at 90 °. I put it into the purge all flat and even spred, and pull to 27hg over and over until the muffin is pretty much gone. Let it sit and do not disturb. It can very easily autocrumble on you if the temp is to high so start low.

personal lux said:

He can definitely use ISO over everclear. Use food grade iso, 99.9%. All the solvent does is give the butane an easier bond to evaporate with alon with moisture. Personally I dewax with 99.9% iso.

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I only meant to say use food grade alcohol anyways. Plus the whole ISO deal is that ISO cannot be consumed by us as humans. So that's why I put it up. I just chose to give a more "edible" alternative because ISO still has chemicals in it. So far everclear just evaps and not much trace. No foul just stating a point that worked for me. Plus his steps looked like I missed something and he seemed to say that he was putting bho weed and ISO together all at once.

personal lux said:

Good info here. Be careful pulling temps towards the upper 110s and low 120s unless you want crumble, but that's a whole other method. I blast my stuff open end currently, 1 can per oz pure n-butane. I whip until it's nice and purged on the mat set at 90 °. I put it into the purge all flat and even spred, and pull to 27hg over and over until the muffin is pretty much gone. Let it sit and do not disturb. It can very easily autocrumble on you if the temp is to high so start low.

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I routinely run around 115F and consistently make shatter.

To form wax hydrates, you need water and points of nucleation. If you freeze the water so it isn't extracted, and use low temperature butane/propane to avoid picking up points of nucleation like plant waxes, it isn't as prone to waxing.

Cheers for the info guys I'm new to making this, Haven't actually had my first go yet i'm still waiting for my vac pump/champ to come.

Fadedawg said:

I routinely run around 115F and consistently make shatter.

To form wax hydrates, you need water and points of nucleation. If you freeze the water so it isn't extracted, and use low temperature butane/propane to avoid picking up points of nucleation like plant waxes, it isn't as prone to waxing.

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I never really go that high. Are you dewax ing your saying?

personal lux said:

I never really go that high. Are you dewax ing your saying?

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So are you saying the whole process in your vac chamber never goes higher then 115F during the whole time? thanks

personal lux said:

I never really go that high. Are you dewax ing your saying?

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I heat until the thin film is fully melted, usually around 110/115F, before pulling a vacuum. I find the solvent leaves faster if the surface tension is low enough for the bubbles to readily escape.

CONGIL95 said:

So are you saying the whole process in your vac chamber never goes higher then 115F during the whole time? thanks

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My whole process never exceeds 100° F. Start at 90 work up if I need to.

personal lux said:

My whole process never exceeds 100° F. Start at 90 work up if I need to.

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Okay so when you first fire it up your at 90f? Thanks

CONGIL95 said:

Okay so when you first fire it up your at 90f? Thanks

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Yep, especially when your water bathing it I'm careful not to exceed 90. Just did my first closed collum run, out of 90 grams of sugar leaf and bud material, 1 can loaded pressurized and 1 can ran during the release. I yielded 25 grams. Not bad at all.

personal lux said:

Yep, especially when your water bathing it I'm careful not to exceed 90. Just did my first closed collum run, out of 90 grams of sugar leaf and bud material, 1 can loaded pressurized and 1 can ran during the release. I yielded 25 grams. Not bad at all.

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Cheers for the help mate, is there something we can talk on privately ? Thanks

This was done at around 110 to 130. It did get hot some times but eh didnt seem to effect it negatively

JungleTime said:

This was done at around 110 to 130. It did get hot some times but eh didnt seem to effect it negatively

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How much did you blast for this?