The Dons' Organic Garden

natureboygrower said:

i'm getting ready to mix soil for six new planters.im going off of coots mix.using goat compost and happy frog for the base.found a friend who has a bunch of comfrey im going to transplant(yes,its the invasive kind,lol) how much greensand per cf @greasemonkeymann ? any other tips on additional amendments that arent on coots mix?

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DonTesla said:

Basically a cup of each per cubic foot but correct me if I'm wrong please Grease

Also this is for what ends up in each 7gal basically, after mixing, not souly compost per se


Shell Crab Meal 1/2 cup ideal, 1 cup max

Neem Meal 1 cup

Alfafa Meal 1 cup

Kelp Meal 1 cup, push up to 2% total volume for amazing terps/smells

Greensand 1 C, lasts for years

What I would be curious to know, is how much comfrey (chitin source aside) would it take to replace the above!

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DonTesla said:

Man, that was the best post ever, I love when you go all out, bro!

Definitely got me super inspired to go nuts with Comfrey! And to come and visit both you and Rasta sometime this year if that would be cool with you guys! @Rasta Roy

Cause yeah, I'm really liking how you're simplifying it and trying these blends out, I was gonna make soil the same way, just for myself to grow in different kinds, and to do that, I was gonna make different composts cause thats how I love to amend, once I tried it I had the best round ever, so expressive and so easy, all the way to the end. I had a buddy taint a bit of my soil with sand and water I didn't approve of and now I'm looking to make all fresh soil for I'm always looking for an excuse to! I love making a fresh batch every year, you and DP are like so funny, man.. wish we were all in the same spots! wish a bunch of us RIU'ers were all able to garden together a bit, that'd be so sick.. thank Jah for Riu though, talking itself is a blessin mon!

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DonTesla said:

I guess my point is that soil mixes are better suited for slow release meal based nutrients, and the quicker nutrients are better for topdressing.

Well said Grease.. This makes a tonne of sense to me and I think these groups of amendments should be divided from the get go so beginners and noobs like me can learn them from that angle from the get go.. not that I rely on any guano or outside poop sources much at all anymore but I really endorse everything you're saying, or shall I say, it just resonates with me, just automatically, like its how I think too. What about your favourite rocks dusts or mineral sources though. What about that?? @greasemonkeymann Thanks brother, love hearing your thoughts

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greasemonkeymann said:

ah, well greensand is great to use, it's reaaaally slow, and probably useless the first season, the potassium availability is akin to like granite dust, verrry slow..
it does work well for aeration, and believe it or not it does absorb water too, so as a soil input it's good for that reason.
slow release is good for many reasons but perhaps the most important is that it's extremely forgiveable, so if you add too much, it's not like BAM and it's toxic...
one of the reasons I don't like soluble nutrients..
anyways, so greensand is great to use, but remember that goat manure and comfrey are already high in potassium, and the amount of manure typically added to a soil is more than the amount of nutrients added, meaning even though the NPK numbers of manure is modest, it's used in larger overall % of the soil makeup, make sense?
sorta why I tell growers to not concentrate on the nutrient values sometimes, sure it's good to be cognizant of them, but not to overthink it all.
I don't remember exactly what is in the coots mix, but I remember it being pretty comprehensive, let me look a lil..
is it this one?
I copied it
------------------------------------------
BAS has his mineral mix listed as this:
1 Part Brix Blend Basalt - Trace Minerals and High Paramagnetic Energy
1 Part Gypsum - Locally Mined in Colorado - Calcium and Sulfur
1 Part Oyster Flour - Mined from San Francisco Bay - High in Calcium
1 Part Glacial Rock Dust - Gaia Green Glacial Rock Dust - Trace Minerals
(1 Large Mineral Kit will mix with 1/2 Yard of soil) 1/2 Yard is = 13.5 Cubic Feet
Use at 4 Cups Per Cubic Foot

But I saw coots in 2011 post 5 parts glacial, 1 part basalt, bentonite and oyster in the ROLS thread.

Then I found xmobtx on another forum in 2014:
Quote:
RECIPE Now, for a tablespoon per gallon, 1/2 cup per cubic foot is "close enough" ~so you can adjust to make smaller batches!

mix your neem, crab & kelp meals {if you want alfalfa meal it goes in here too} ~apply this mixture @ 1 cup per cubic foot

mix your glacier dust, basalt dust & if you want it clay/azomite ~apply this mixture @ 2 cups per cubic foot

gypsum & oyster flour mixed @ 2 oyster to 1 gypsum is applied @ 2 cups per cubic foot

if you want it, put your biochar in @ 1/2 cup per cubic foot
--------------------

I like the inputs, except the gypsum, with those others the calcium in the gypsum is a bit much, you'll have it elsewhere. (don't get me wrong, gypsum is GREAT, but often not needed)
but like nearly every other input in there is good with calcium
I do like the sulfur though, but you have that in the neem meal too, and smaller amounts in the goat manure too
I also like the smaller amounts he recommends too

one thing I can say though, be CAREFUL amending a manure based soil mix, too often the manure alone is plenty to go with.
I messed up two different mixes doing that
a rabbit manure mix and an alpaca based one
both of those are good to use almost bare.
(alpaca OWNS in the manure world btw)
I can be more specific if you give me more information, the amount of manure added
any d-lime or just the oyster flour to control the ph?

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greasemonkeymann said:

man, I appreciate the kind words, I try and be as comprehensive as possible without putting people to sleep (do that enough in the "real" world)
I wish I was closer to rastaroy, he and I are brothers-from-another-mother, we have almost identical growing styles and techniques.

So what dod your buddy do with the sand?
reason I ask is that I happen to LOVE sand in my mixes, I discovered that years ago when I was growing a bigass lanky sativa outside that kept getting blown over from the wind, damn thing was like a kite..
but a good gallon or so of horticultural sand in the mix and it anchored itself nicely, and I subsequently discovered that sand is damn good at aeration, especially in a humus heavy mix (like with castings...)

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natureboygrower said:

awesome thank you both @DonTesla
definitely planning on oyster flour,no lime.planters are roughly 8cf apiece.good compost is hard to find around here,friend of mine just asked me today if i wanted a yard of goat compost.he said goat compost isnt as 'hot' as other manure based composts?thought i saw you talking about goat/sheep manure/compost(could be wrong)?anyways,i thought thd goat compost would be the next best thing behind alpaca.would you stay away from it?

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DonTesla said:

Edit repost just from above, you were fast to read!

We have some new people here building soil lets de lab compare notes, mon, are your endorsing that 15-16cups per Cu Ft or are you really upping the natural C:N, vitamins and minerals and humus/humics to see how little you need on that side, seems your getting super self sufficient and almost close to a completing at least one closed loop system recipe if not 2. Thats a niche in itself I guess.

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DonTesla said:

Yeah buddy is right its more super slow release, it does its best work after the second year if I'm not mistaken. But helps with so many little deficiencies as well and could start to be utilized earlier I would think especially if heavily and happily fungal as well as bacterial, balanced and thriving.

As for the goats, they eat a supernatural diet of forage, so is that their poop composted? I would say its probably pretty clean stuff compared to a lot over-industrialized farm sources. free range is always better. It would be good to know if those goats are on any or how many antibiotics etc etc thats the one thing I prefer is rabbit poop but I'm still learning too.

we used horse manure and turkey litter year one, just a bit very little, with worms added

then we upgraded to organic cow compost off our own farm intro to our own compost

now that I think about bats have a pretty cool diet the industry just gets a bad rep for its reasons, but if I lived near a bat cave id probably become their friend, breed bugs, feed them, collect there poop and try it, and compare it to everything, but its farmed animals and what all gets injected that motivated my cleaner approach or more controlled approach.

then next year was the super spoiled vegetarian rabbit and 100% our own worm castings (at 15% and 25% total volume) and 100% our own amended compost.

I still haven't compared to anything else quite quite yet, but its gotten meaner and meaner and meaner and more expressive and also more anthocyanin and I would say its due for a focus on yield now but never have we seen this type of expression in our lives or in magazines for that matter, on a trichome and smell level, its a daily speechless thing

Regarding Oyster shell I find that awesome, very cool. what ratio you thinking?

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greasemonkeymann said:

15-16 cups?
that's a whooole lot, I did probably that much total for my entire compost pile, which probably made a good 10 cubic feet or so, and further still I cut the compost with "old" soil too.
but in hindsight, a compost pile could be easily made with much less than that, in fact that's why I am wanting to do a simpler compost the next time.
I am leaning more towards that to be used for reamendments, with the philosophy being closer to the "Law of The Return"
that being that plants don't need many additional nutrient inputs if the plant itself is being used as detritus for the next years plant
BUT, we do smoke the flowers, and we are growing in UNnatural environments, containers, inside, etc.
so we do have to deviate a lil from that growing philosophy
speaking of, I am a big believer in using as much cannabis plant material for the compost as possible, I keep ALL of my trim for that reason.
Mother nature has had millions of years of evolution to perfect that.
I find myself thinking of that particular aspect often..
I sorta have an over-active, hyper-analytical neurotic thing goin on between my ears, so I tend to spend time on some weird subjects..
but that "natural" way of growing is intriguing to me, and alluring as well
"The Law of The Return"
I read about it about six or seven yrs ago, and it literally changed the entire way I looked at organic growing
in fact that's what got me into composting to begin with

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greasemonkeymann said:

I added about a cup per cubic foot i'd say.
I also LOVE oyster shells for aeration too, the ones they sell at chicken feed stores are great, doubtful they actually have any nutrient value of liming capability though.
...
off topic, One thing I am considering is that I may not ever start another wormbin, i recently incorporated my finished compost with my wormbin, and I can't say that I see the advantage of having a finished compost and a wormbin apart, there is like 10 times the worms in my compost than in my wormbin, and they just keeeeep on going...
in fact I am actually NOT thrilled on how dense the finished compost is getting, but its all good
I just keep on throwin scraps in there to eat

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greasemonkeymann said:

the whole objective is to see how I can maintain the results I am having, with possibly even less work and nutrients involved.

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DonTesla said:

you're right, 15-16 cups is for per little home batch which is 3.5 cubic feet ! that was for soil before the compost way

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greasemonkeymann said:

ahh gotcha, I figured I must have missed something there
even still, 3.5 cubic feet with 16 cups is a bit rich too, but all depends on cups of what..
if you are adding the minerals in there too i'd say that's about right
usually I go with around 2 cups per cubic foot of minerals (only when first making a mix, not for reamends)
and roughly 2-3 cups per cubic food of nutrients, but that depends on which I am adding, and also if it's the initial soil or reamend.
one thing I will say is that a good compost is really surprising to most on what it actually has in it, the macro value of a good compost is usually higher than most manures, and the fact that most of it is available too is the reason why I go LIGHT on the nutrients.
always, always better to add nutrients if needed rather than try and take away...
wise old hippy once said
"nutrients are like salt for a soup, you can always add, but never take out"
he also said this one too,
"if you think your flowers are ready? Wait another week"

those two bits of advice are just priceless.

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DonTesla said:

so much less than 10% hey for both bio char and oyster shells, have you heard of any success at such high ratios I read those numbers on bio char sites etc but you think its better to suit that volume to something nutritious, mon?


I swear I dump my 100 lb piles of castings once a week, to aerate, cause they have a tendency to get fookin heavy and a bit dense in the winter when theyre fed less bedding and more scraps! If you amend or layer greens in and make your composts big enough it can keep them very warm and alive all winter in -40*C I guess hey? Like wide and tall enough so its at least 4x4x4feet hey bud.

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greasemonkeymann said:

ahh gotcha, I figured I must have missed something there
even still, 3.5 cubic feet with 16 cups is a bit rich too, but all depends on cups of what..
if you are adding the minerals in there too i'd say that's about right
usually I go with around 2 cups per cubic foot of minerals (only when first making a mix, not for reamends)
and roughly 2-3 cups per cubic food of nutrients, but that depends on which I am adding, and also if it's the initial soil or reamend.
one thing I will say is that a good compost is really surprising to most on what it actually has in it, the macro value of a good compost is usually higher than most manures, and the fact that most of it is available too is the reason why I go LIGHT on the nutrients.
always, always better to add nutrients if needed rather than try and take away...
wise old hippy once said
"nutrients are like salt for a soup, you can always add, but never take out"
he also said this one too,
"if you think your flowers are ready? Wait another week"

those two bits of advice are just priceless.

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greasemonkeymann said:

ohh yea the castings are dense as hell...
and they will keep on making it more and more fine it would appear.
what I like is to add a bunch of rice hulls in the castings, those degrade over time and tend to keep it from being too "cakey"
but in all =honestly I am not super thrilled about my perfectly fluffy compost being turned into thick dense wormcastings... I may be a douche for complaining about it considering but still... the compost was PERFECT when it was done, and now it's becoming more and more soluble, I am getting MUCH more runoff from it than normal, and am having to up my already high % of aeration..
i even had to leach some of the runoff out of my newly transplanted plants.. they were visibly angry with the mix, and it's the same stuff that grew the previous two batches, only now its much thicker...
makes a difference though..

as far the winter temps?
i live in CA, near the coast, so it doesn't even get to 30 hardly..
i like some alfalfa or grass clipping to up the temps in the pile a lil, but that's in our 40 deg avg winter temps... with anything as cold as you are talkin and those worms are gonna disappear...

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