Fogdog
Well-Known Member
It is well known that facts have a liberal bias.
The Final Days of the Trump Administration.
- Thread starter Unclebaldrick
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- impeach trump
Herb & Suds
Well-Known Member
More like amazed you can tie your own shoes
Unclebaldrick
Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
i don't think there's any difference between republican, democrat, torrie, whig, green, black, orange, labor.....i don't care what country you come from, what leader you follow, or what personal philosophy you adhere to.
there are lobbyist all over the world. there are rich people who don't want to follow rules. there are endless temptations. the system itself is fatally flawed, and no one is willing to shoot the suffering beast and put it out of our misery. all public offices should have 100 percent transparency, at least as far as financial matters go. 100%, every penny accounted for. every contribution a matter of public record, posted as they happen. all politicians 100% barred from participating in any business with the government if they own a private business. it's going to take a lot to convince me that a single politician anywhere, in any party, isn't crooked. i used to think they were great people, who were watching out for us, and protecting us from harm.....now i think we need protecting from the harm they cause.
there are lobbyist all over the world. there are rich people who don't want to follow rules. there are endless temptations. the system itself is fatally flawed, and no one is willing to shoot the suffering beast and put it out of our misery. all public offices should have 100 percent transparency, at least as far as financial matters go. 100%, every penny accounted for. every contribution a matter of public record, posted as they happen. all politicians 100% barred from participating in any business with the government if they own a private business. it's going to take a lot to convince me that a single politician anywhere, in any party, isn't crooked. i used to think they were great people, who were watching out for us, and protecting us from harm.....now i think we need protecting from the harm they cause.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
So, you just believe and don't need facts to decide.
With that kind of logic you could come up with all sorts of conclusions.
Do you believe the earth is flat?
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
you know i don't.
i pick up the papers (figuratively, i actually sit at the monitor, now a day) every morning, and without fail, i read of scandals worldwide. i read of politicians being tried for corruption. i see politicians trying to whitewash school shootings, because their nra lobbyist masters tell them to. i see foreign politicians having people murdered. i see corruption trials, war crime trials, and low, contemptible behavior.
i see absolutely nothing to give me hope. yet. i'm not condemning anyone publicly. yet. what goes on in my own mind....goes on. and it doesn't make me optimistic about the future.
i just find it very hard to make the distinctions you apparently make with ease....skunks stink....some skunks are more likely to spray you than others are, but how the hell do you tell which ones are which, till they spray you, or not? do you just assume they all won't, or do you assume they all will? does the skunk joining a certain political party make it less likely to stink? or is it still a skunk?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
If you can't accept facts then how can you accept the earth is round?
The bible says the earth is flat. Shouldn't that be enough? If you don't accept facts then how can you disagree with the bible?
If you are saying that all politicians are corrupt, then you saying the Democrats I voted for are corrupt. I don't follow what other Democrats do very closely but I do follow what the ones I vote for are doing. I see no evidence whatsoever that Ron Wyden, Jeff Merkely and Peter DeFazio are corrupt. I also find that they support the issues that are important to me. DeFazio clobbered his Republican opponent this year, so most people in the OR-14th district must be somewhat satisfied with him to re-elect him. Yet you say he is corrupt without knowing anything about him.
It's your cynical conclusion that everybody is out for themselves and ready to stick it to the next person that I disagree with. If you want to talk about a specific person who you believe is corrupt for specific reasons then you are showing the ability to reason. If you want to just say somebody is corrupt for no other reason than "snakes bite, scorpions sting, its their nature", then you aren't using reason, you are simply believing. Which gets me back to why I think you very well could believe the earth is flat.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
you keep saying i can't accept facts....what facts? show me facts that say democrats are immune to corruption.......i've already shown you that they aren't...want a wall of links about democrats involved in corruption? as well as politicians from all parties from all around the world? i can spend a whole day posting the links......
yes, democrats are slightly better than republicans at the moment....they aren't fucking saints.....they never will be....those are facts....i accept them....why don't you try it?
yes, democrats are slightly better than republicans at the moment....they aren't fucking saints.....they never will be....those are facts....i accept them....why don't you try it?
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
show me a wall of articles about the wonderful things politicians are doing....for every article you can post, i can post ten that say they're lying scumbag pieces of shit.....i don't have time to research every politician in the country, much less the world. i look into the more influential ones, and the ones that get themselves into trouble.....and there is no shortage of them, and no trouble finding stories about them. i do have trouble finding articles about politicians doing anything good. what the fuck is a person supposed to think about a particular...profession? calling?.....neuroses?.....when pretty much all you hear is they're all a bunch of lying, unethical, scumbags?
i don't think stereotypes about races or religions are true, because i don't see endless news stories about particular races or religions constantly getting caught doing unethical things. because there's not proof of their shitty behavior shoved into my face on a daily basis.
i don't believe the earth is flat, because it's been sufficiently proven, in multiple ways, that it isn't. no one has ever proven that a politician was worth trusting.....but i get evidence daily that they aren't.....
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Now you are demanding that I prove a negative. Specifically, you are saying "prove to me that Ron Wyden is not corrupt". In other words you started with a belief that has nothing to back it up and demand I disprove it. That is called a logical fallacy, in other words, a bad argument.
Is anybody accusing Ron Wyden of corruption? Specifically, what has he done that makes you think he's corrupt? Has he betrayed me by straying from his progressive platform? I don't think so. Here is why I think that: http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Ron_Wyden.htm . I'm not 100% behind everything he's done but his approval rating from me is at least 80% and probably higher.
So, you believe what you want without looking for evidence or objective reasons why. Believe the earth is round for no good reason too. I simply don't understand how that way of thinking is useful.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Regarding reproductive rights, here is Wyden's legislative record:
- Expand embryonic stem cell research. (Jun 2004)
- Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
- Supports both federal abortion funding & judicial activism. (Aug 2010)
- Opposes prohibiting human embryonic stem cell research. (Aug 2010)
- Require pharmacies to fulfill contraceptive prescriptions. (Jul 2011)
- Ban anti-abortion limitations on abortion services. (Nov 2013)
- Access safe, legal abortion without restrictions. (Jan 2015)
- Keep federal funding for family planning clinics. (Mar 2017)
- Protect the reproductive rights of women. (Jan 1993)
- Ensure access to and funding for contraception. (Feb 2007)
- Focus on preventing pregnancy, plus emergency contraception. (Jan 2009)
This site has a much longer list: http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Ron_Wyden.htm
Here is a list of his positions on the budget and economy:
- No bailout of finance industry, no Wall Street bonuses. (Oct 2010)
- Voted YES on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)
- Voted YES on modifying bankruptcy rules to avoid mortgage foreclosures. (May 2009)
- Voted YES on additional $825 billion for economic recovery package. (Feb 2009)
- Voted YES on $60B stimulus package for jobs, infrastructure, & energy. (Sep 200
- Voted NO on paying down federal debt by rating programs' effectiveness. (Mar 2007)
- Voted NO on $40B in reduced federal overall spending. (Dec 2005)
- Voted NO on prioritizing national debt reduction below tax cuts. (Apr 2000)
- Voted YES on 1998 GOP budget. (May 1997)
- Voted NO on Balanced-budget constitutional amendment. (Mar 1997)
Do you see how this works? You believe what you want. I'll stick to facts and decide from there.
Oh yeah, I have been convinced by objective, verifiable evidence that the earth is round. Also I've been convinced by evidence presented by climate scientists that humans are causing global warming. I don't know how you made up you mind on these subjects but I recommend you look for objective facts rather than forming a belief without them.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
You now owe me 10 different articles that state Ron Wyden is a lying scumbag piece of shit.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Nice line, homes.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Not mine, Steven Colbert but it IS a nice line.
Sir Napsalot
Well-Known Member
U.S. Congressman Peter DeFazio has voted against and forgone all congressional salary increases since being elected to Congress. Instead, he has tied his salary to cost of living adjustments (COLAs) for Social Security recipients, and used the excess pay to fund scholarships for dislocated workers at five community colleges in southwest Oregon and to pay down the national debt.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Roger, you now owe Sir Napsalot 10 different articles that say Peter DeFazio is a lying scumbag piece of shit.
potroastV2
Well-Known Member
He's working on it, Man. This is a big assignment, so it will probably take him awhile.
Sir Napsalot
Well-Known Member
nobody owes me anything at the moment
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
U.S. Congressman Peter DeFazio has voted against and forgone all congressional salary increases since being elected to Congress. Instead, he has tied his salary to cost of living adjustments (COLAs) for Social Security recipients, and used the excess pay to fund scholarships for dislocated workers at five community colleges in southwest Oregon and to pay down the national debt.
You now owe me 10 different articles that say Peter DeFazio is a lying piece of shit.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
i did not say they would be about the same person...i said for every one article you can show me, i can show you ten saying politicians are pieces of shit....how long did you have to search for that one article?